I could possibly have been wrong.

PLC1

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It does happen occasionally. I already admitted to having voted for Lyndon Johnson on the assumption that he would be less likely than Goldwater to get us into a war. Now, 46 years later, I may possibly have erred once again.

It happens occasionally, every 40-50 years anyway.

I'm talking about health care reform. Looking at the rest of the world paying less and getting more led me to believe that our own government could institute a health care plan that might improve our own.

Now, I'm beginning to think that our government is far too polarized and way too inept to come up with a workable national plan.

Possibly, it is time for the feds to throw up their hands, admit defeat, and deregulate the health care system entirely.

A single payer system is not going to happen, probably not in my lifetime anyway, and the current system is unsustainable. The alternative is for the federal government to ease itself out of the system altogether.

But not until we come up with a real way to limit costs. As it is, we must have an employer based health insurance plan until we're eligible for Medicare, and eliminating Medicare all at once would leave seniors with no place to turn.

So, given that there is no public option, no real reform, no cost containment, and no real debate on the solution, what is next?

Tort reform and more competition among insurers is a start, but it isn't going to keep medical care from growing out of reach of the middle class, and rather soon at that.
 
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The problem is you live in a country run by the rich for the rich.

Healthcare reform would only benefit the poor.

That is why it won't happen. The rich are very good at getting the poor (most people) to believe that this kind of initiative is a massive move in the direction of socialism and suddenly all the brainwashed poor people convulse in a fit of terror and scream that they don't want that.

It is pathetic.

Christian country????

Well I suppose that if you accept that christianity is about discrimination and domination then yes, the US is a very christian country.
 
The problem is you live in a country run by the rich for the rich.

Healthcare reform would only benefit the poor.

That is why it won't happen. The rich are very good at getting the poor (most people) to believe that this kind of initiative is a massive move in the direction of socialism and suddenly all the brainwashed poor people convulse in a fit of terror and scream that they don't want that.

It is pathetic.

Christian country????

Well I suppose that if you accept that christianity is about discrimination and domination then yes, the US is a very christian country.

That post does not fit your screen name for it is not rational.

The poor want socialism since many are already wards of the state and they will never listen to rich people. Fortunately, in this the greatest nation on Earth, we do not have an overwhelming number of poor (but under BO that number is steadily increasing - as is planned by the Marxists)

And, I am not rich, but sure as Sam Hill do not want that crappy Obamacare.

And, many rich were pushing Obamacare so they could get richer.
 
The so called poor want to be rich, except they don't want to work for it & they accept goverment handouts to buy their cars & IPods. My health insurance is alright, I have no problem with it & all this whining about 40 million being unisured is crap. Obama's health care reform bill will go down in flames permanently by summer because Ted Kennedy's dream is a nightmare. Christians aren't bad people, bashing them is ludicrous & liberal Democrats are intellectually inept. Everybody gets into the emergency room at hospitals, no matter whether you're rich or poor, black or white & the rhetoric from Obama & the Democrats is silly.
 
The problem is you live in a country run by the rich for the rich.

Healthcare reform would only benefit the poor.

That is why it won't happen. The rich are very good at getting the poor (most people) to believe that this kind of initiative is a massive move in the direction of socialism and suddenly all the brainwashed poor people convulse in a fit of terror and scream that they don't want that.

It is pathetic.

Christian country????

Well I suppose that if you accept that christianity is about discrimination and domination then yes, the US is a very christian country.

YOU have my permission to leave and FAST! Go South our border is wide open!! GOOD LUCK! "ALWAYS"
 
the so called poor want to be rich, except they don't want to work for it & they accept goverment handouts to buy their cars & ipods. My health insurance is alright, i have no problem with it & all this whining about 40 million being unisured is crap. Obama's health care reform bill will go down in flames permanently by summer because ted kennedy's dream is a nightmare. Christians aren't bad people, bashing them is ludicrous & liberal democrats are intellectually inept. Everybody gets into the emergency room at hospitals, no matter whether you're rich or poor, black or white & the rhetoric from obama & the democrats is silly.

amen , wayne amen!!!
 
The so called poor want to be rich, except they don't want to work for it & they accept goverment handouts to buy their cars & IPods. My health insurance is alright, I have no problem with it & all this whining about 40 million being unisured is crap. Obama's health care reform bill will go down in flames permanently by summer because Ted Kennedy's dream is a nightmare. Christians aren't bad people, bashing them is ludicrous & liberal Democrats are intellectually inept. Everybody gets into the emergency room at hospitals, no matter whether you're rich or poor, black or white & the rhetoric from Obama & the Democrats is silly.

The problem is not getting into the Emergency Room but the bills that come afterward. Those who are fortunate enough to pay them back do so as for the others who can't it just burdens the tax payers. So what would be the solution to this particular problem?
 
So what would be the solution to this particular problem?

Remove government from the equation so that it no longer distorts the market. The people who want more government intervention into the market accept the premise that government has the capacity to artificially contain the costs of providing care. I've yet to see even one logical argument that supports this premise but I have seen many that are based purely on assumptions.

Government can dictate what providers can charge, but that does nothing to actually contain the cost of providing the care. To make a serious attempt at controlling cost through government intervention, government would have to dictate the cost of everything from education, training, wages, raw materials, all the way to the final products that are necessary to provide the service. More than that, government would also have to ration these products and services in an attempt to artifically manipulate both the supply and demand curves associated with every product, service and industry that's part of the chain. In short, we would need a full blown command and control economy.

Going back to the solution of Free Markets and Capitalism, if you want a product or service to be more affordable what needs to happen? You increase the supply in relation to demand and the costs are reduced. The same thing could happen with health care if the government stopped trying to control supply and demand under the pretense that these products and services are too important be outside government control.
 
Just remember, Obama said the US can't have economic recovery
unless we pass his healthcare plan.

I wonder if he will repeat that lie again tonight!
 
Yes remove government and let the markets decide(like they did and nearly destroyed every western economy).

America - the greatest country on earth with very few poor people????

That is without doubt the most delusional statement I have ever read.

It represents the kind of belief that is exactly what the rich want you to think so that you will happily stay poor and ready to die in the relentless aggression the US heaps on the world.

As for 'going south' the US has completely wrecked south America so why would I want to go there (apart from to get away from lardass halfwits)?
 
Yes remove government and let the markets decide(like they did and nearly destroyed every western economy).

America - the greatest country on earth with very few poor people????

That is without doubt the most delusional statement I have ever read.

Once again you post absurd statements completely without factual content. This is most irrational...my guess is you are 15-18 years old and the socialist g-schools have destroyed your right brain and vastly expanded your left brain.

You can overcome this terrible disease...but many do not and are resigned to life full of hate, bad decisions, and much unhappiness. It's called Liberal Disease and there is a cure, which I your humble conservative doctor can administer.

Now for the facts...only about 10% of Americans are "poor." That number has increased since LBJ implemented the Costliest War in 1965 (how does that happen after Trillions are stolen from taxpayers?). And poor in America are considered rich in nearly every other country on Earth.

If you will accept my offer, we can begin to dispense the antidote today and put an end to your horrific suffering.

How "Poor" are America's Poor?
by Robert Rector
Backgrounder #791



Introduction

Next week the United States Census Bureau will release its annual report on "poverty" stating, as it has for many years, that there are some 31 million to 32 million poor Americans, a number greater than in 1965 when the War on Poverty began. Evidence mounts, however, that the Census Bureau's poverty report dramatically understates the living standards of low income Americans.

Here is a sample of facts that will not be mentioned in next week's poverty report.

* 38 percent of the persons whom the Census Bureau identifies as "poor" own their own homes with a median value of $39,200.

* 62 percent of "poor" households own a car; 14 percent own two or more cars.

* Nearly half of all "poor" households have air-conditioning; 31 percent have microwave ovens.

* Nationwide, some 22,000 "poor" households have heated swimming pools or Jacuzzis.

"Poor" Americans today are better housed, better fed, and own more property than did the average U.S. citizen throughout much of the 20th Century. In 1988, the per capita expenditures of the lowest income fifth of the U.S. population exceeded the per capita expenditures of the median American household in 1955, after adjusting for inflation.1

http://www.heritage.org/research/politicalphilosophy/bg791.cfm
 
Once again you post absurd statements completely without factual content. This is most irrational...my guess is you are 15-18 years old and the socialist g-schools have destroyed your right brain and vastly expanded your left brain.

You can overcome this terrible disease...but many do not and are resigned to life full of hate, bad decisions, and much unhappiness. It's called Liberal Disease and there is a cure, which I your humble conservative doctor can administer.
Now, Now...Gipper dear, you can't just wander around this forum being rude and unduly critical {even though Pandora & GenSeneca seem to avoid/ignore/overlook your rude insults to other members} I've been through the newly administrated treatment center for removing any and all sarcasm from my POV...so unless you would like a trip to the MENTAL RETRAINING FACILITY too, I would suggest that you quietly ease up on that rhetoric/way of typing...I'm not the whiner that sends your posts to the MODS but some on here seem to have lost their sense of humor {if they ever had it} ;)
Now for the facts...only about 10% of Americans are "poor." That number has increased since LBJ implemented the Costliest War in 1965 (how does that happen after Trillions are stolen from taxpayers?). And poor in America are considered rich in nearly every other country on Earth.
OOPS...you seem to have neglected to provide the year that your quoted article was written...surely that was just a over sight on your part...surely you weren't trying to mislead/misquote/ignore the fact that this was written prior to the highest fuel cost of our history...that health insurance has risen by leaps and bounds that the economy hadn't tanked during this period...that we were in the midst of the Silicon Valley BOOM for technological era of my lifetime...surely you weren't trying to HIDE THAT LITTLE TID BIT OF FACTRUAL INFORMATION :rolleyes:
Clipped from your very own article
September 21, 1990
How "Poor" are America's Poor?
by Robert Rector
Backgrounder #791
You SAID:
If you will accept my offer, we can begin to dispense the antidote today and put an end to your horrific suffering.
Tsk, Tsk, Tsk...I am now highly worried/concerned about your apparent dementia...have you been tested for memory problems and I'm being sincere...just ask me ;)
 
Gipper insults are a bit rich from someone who asserts without any basis that the US is the greatest country on earth. That is the kind of comment you would expect from a 5 year old.

The reality is the the US is a hugely aggressive nation that has stolen everything it has either from native Americans or other countries that it relentlessly attacks.

It is totally dependent on oil but is desperately short of it so is cooking up reasons to attack and take over the middle east.

It is populated by fat ignorant right wing idiots who allegedly voted George Bush in!Twice!!!

It is a country that happliy turns a blind eye to paedophilia if the perp is a priest or the alleged king of pop.

It is mired in religious fundamentlism with a heavy accent on mentalism

The world hates America and I promise you it is nothing to do with jealousy as your leaders pretend it is ( they know suckers will believe that).

It is because America is a right wing fundamentalist war mongering nation that happily wrecks the lives of millions of people in its pursuit of empire.

Most Americans are too stupid or too right wing to care.

That is why the world hates the US. A cess pit of racism, obesity, money obsession, superficialty and vomit inducing hypocrisy.
 
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The plan is to combine the existing wasteful universal care system that taxpayers already foot the bill for of hodgepodge expensive ER visits, Medicaid and the VA into one clerical system that focuses on way less expensive preventative care. This system would be recommended by any financial adviser for his/her client as it will save billions in just the next couple of years and trillions over a longer haul. Me likey..

What isn't the plan is to subsidize private corporations with taxpayer money when they will still not cover everyone who needs it, will jack rates at their whim and will spend billions in advertising and CEO bonuses. Those costs, by revamping our current public system will not even be in the discussion.

We learned our lesson on corporate wellfare [insurance subsidies apply] from Wallstreet. We learned that big greedy pigs bite the hands that slop the troughs. The taxpayers are still wincing from that miscalculation.
 
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