Heresy

[Dawkinsrocks]

The roman catholic church is consideing releasing transcripts of the trial of Galileo for heresy.

His crime?

Stating that the earth goes round the sun.

That was then.

Denying evolution.

Opposing stem cell reseacrh

Telling the AIDS ridden people of Africa that condoms are evil.

That is now.

They are also trying to get the UK government to give up a masterpiece from an art gallery claiming it is theirs as it is a work of faith.

Money and ignorance.

The two currencies of the RC church.

And all churches come to think of it.

 

[cannabis]

The battle between religion and science has always been going on, but at least today science seems to be winning. And no more scientists are being tried for heresy. Personally I think the Catholic Church needs to accept the fact that we've made new discoveries. They can still have their faith but they need to tone down their criticism and condemnation, especially in areas such as evolution, where they have no evidence to back up their viewpoints.

But let me ask you a question: when you say church do you mean the regular town church or the religious sect as a whole? Because although I am not religious I do believe churches do benefit for our society. You call them greedy, yet they donate huge amounts of money to charities and don't keep much for themselves. OK, old Catholic churches did, but I'm talking about the typical modern church.

 

[cannabis]

Haha i didn't realize he was banned, o well. Feel free to answer my question still anyone who's interested

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

The battle between religion and science has always been going on, but at least today science seems to be winning. And no more scientists are being tried for heresy. Personally I think the Catholic Church needs to accept the fact that we've made new discoveries. They can still have their faith but they need to tone down their criticism and condemnation, especially in areas such as evolution, where they have no evidence to back up their viewpoints.

But let me ask you a question: when you say church do you mean the regular town church or the religious sect as a whole? Because although I am not religious I do believe churches do benefit for our society. You call them greedy, yet they donate huge amounts of money to charities and don't keep much for themselves. OK, old Catholic churches did, but I'm talking about the typical modern church.

I cannot speak for Dawks, but I know from my own experience that when I refer to "church" I am speaking of the wider practice of religion rather than individual buildings with people in them. I don't know whether churches benefit society or not. Too much of the time now churches are the tools of politicians and power-hungry manipulators, greedy charlatans, and are filled with frightened people hoping that someone will make them feel safe. There are many good people in individual churches, well-meaning people who trust too much in the integrity of their leaders and follow along without enough critical thought.

Dont be fooled, religion is BIG BUSINESS since it's tax free. Look up the financial records of the Mormons or the mega-churches or the TV ministries.

 

[cannabis]

I cannot speak for Dawks, but I know from my own experience that when I refer to "church" I am speaking of the wider practice of religion rather than individual buildings with people in them. I don't know whether churches benefit society or not. Too much of the time now churches are the tools of politicians and power-hungry manipulators, greedy charlatans, and are filled with frightened people hoping that someone will make them feel safe. There are many good people in individual churches, well-meaning people who trust too much in the integrity of their leaders and follow along without enough critical thought.

Dont be fooled, religion is BIG BUSINESS since it's tax free. Look up the financial records of the Mormons or the mega-churches or the TV ministries.

Yea I guess the problem is that these individual people are being controlled. Do you think Christianity was founded to control or was it manipulated that way?

 

[Bunz]

Yea I guess the problem is that these individual people are being controlled. Do you think Christianity was founded to control or was it manipulated that way?

Certainly it has been manipulated that way. I couldnt imagine that Christ himself or any of the apostles could have envisioned what Christianity has grown into.

The church became big business centuries ago, and have managed to manipulate individuals, society, and governments beyond any rational levels.
To the point where a candidate for office nearly kills thier chances by being an athiest.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Yea I guess the problem is that these individual people are being controlled. Do you think Christianity was founded to control or was it manipulated that way?

There's no real way to tell since there is no proof that Jesus ever existed, nor that He did any of the thing attributed to Him. Any rational examination of the history of Christianity will make one think that it was a made-up religion, an eclectic conglomeration of stuff stolen from other earlier religious traditions. There's really nothing new in Christianity, the virgin birth, the manger, the star, shepards, wise men, dying for others sins, crucifixtion, rising from the dead, it's all been done before in other religions.

 

[foggedinn]

Had an interesting discussion with my pastor concerning evidentialists vs. those who pre-suppose the existance of God. It came up after reading a book he had given me. The Case for Christmas. I told him I thought it was a piece of trash. Some numbskull had actually tried to build a case to "prove" with "evidence" that the first Christmas had happened as written in scripture.

Now I believe that scripture is true as written, but, even I could blow a hundred holes in a case built on the "evidence" presented by the author (a lawyer BTW).

I sat down when I was 8 and read the OT KJV. It took me a year. It was the first real book I had ever read if you exclude the see Dick, see Jane stuff. Since that time, I have been among those who pre-suppose the existance of God.

The evidentialists will always fail to convince anyone. All any Christian really is , is a witness. Any lawyer could tell you that a witness has no burden of proof; ever, under any circumstance.

 

[numinus]

I cannot speak for Dawks, but I know from my own experience that when I refer to "church" I am speaking of the wider practice of religion rather than individual buildings with people in them. I don't know whether churches benefit society or not.

Wrong.

The church is the what you collectively call the people of god. It is neither the edifice nor the dogma.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Wrong.

The church is the what you collectively call the people of god. It is neither the edifice nor the dogma.

I love it, Nums, you come on the thread and tell me what my opinion is. Thanx. Ah, by the way, did you mean to say "...church is the what you..."?

Your post is inaccurate in two points. One, you are telling me how I see things, which I don't see the same as you. Two, everyone is "people of God" since God made all the people. Churches are buildings, churches are represented by thousands of dogmas, none of which have any proof of their ultimate correctness.

 

[numinus]

I love it, Nums, you come on the thread and tell me what my opinion is. Thanx.

God forbid!

No amount of logic have swayed you from your silly opinions in the past. I have no illusions that this time around would be different.

Ah, by the way, did you mean to say "...church is the what you..."?

Hmmm. I see you are still incapable of any intellectual contribution to this forum other than point out typos. Predictable.

Your post is inaccurate in two points. One, you are telling me how I see things, which I don't see the same as you.

No. I am telling you the most correct meaning of the word church. To say that church refers to an edifice of worship, or a set of religious dogma and rituals is patently naive.

Two, everyone is "people of God" since God made all the people.

Correct. If you figured that out from my definition on your own, then there might be some kind of intellectual redemption for you -- albeit infinitessimally small.

Churches are buildings, churches are represented by thousands of dogmas, none of which have any proof of their ultimate correctness.

I take that back. You are hopeless.

 

[Dr.Who]

Correct. If you figured that out from my definition on your own, then there might be some kind of intellectual redemption for you -- albeit infinitessimally small.

Rather, the abuse and ridicule you have heaped on Mare is un-Christian. Speaking the truth can be hard but we should strive to be gentle. You did not even try. I suppose there could be an excuse if you thought that harsh ridicule would lead Mare to repentance but you clearly said you thought Mare was "hopeless." This does not advance the Great commission.

You owe Mare, the rest of us, and God and apology that is sincere and marked by change.

P.S. it looked to me like Mare understood the distinction between the different uses of the word church.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

No. I am telling you the most correct meaning of the word church. To say that church refers to an edifice of worship, or a set of religious dogma and rituals is patently naive.

Patently naive, but grammatically correct according to Merriam Webster:
1 : a building set apart for public especially Christian worship <visit the churches of a city>: as a : the principal house of a parish b : a house of worship in Great Britain for members of the established or formerly established church as distinguished from those of nonconformists and Roman Catholics -- compare CHAPEL 6
2 : a place of worship of any religion <a Muslim church>
3 : a church service : divine worship or religious service in a church : the church building with the service going on in it <go to church> <attend church>

Are you really saying that everyone in all of the more than 3000 sects of Christians are what you refer to when you say "church"?

 

[numinus]

Patently naive, but grammatically correct according to Merriam Webster:
1 : a building set apart for public especially Christian worship <visit the churches of a city>: as a : the principal house of a parish b : a house of worship in Great Britain for members of the established or formerly established church as distinguished from those of nonconformists and Roman Catholics -- compare CHAPEL 6
2 : a place of worship of any religion <a Muslim church>
3 : a church service : divine worship or religious service in a church : the church building with the service going on in it <go to church> <attend church>

I am not talking of grammatical correctness, now, am I? You have tons of posts that are grammatically correct but painfully defective in logic.

Are you really saying that everyone in all of the more than 3000 sects of Christians are what you refer to when you say "church"?

Yes. That is the idea. You can throw in the muslims, jews, atheists, etc. Grace was offered UNILATERALLY AND ABSOLUTELY at the crucifixion.

 

[numinus]

Rather, the abuse and ridicule you have heaped on Mare is un-Christian. Speaking the truth can be hard but we should strive to be gentle. You did not even try. I suppose there could be an excuse if you thought that harsh ridicule would lead Mare to repentance but you clearly said you thought Mare was "hopeless." This does not advance the Great commission.

You owe Mare, the rest of us, and God and apology that is sincere and marked by change.

I do not owe mare an apology and mare does not owe me an apology.

P.S. it looked to me like Mare understood the distinction between the different uses of the word church.

Apparently not.