Health Care; Small-Businesses "Get It"

[Mare Tranquillity]

Well with Obamacare you may be forced to offer healthcare to employees depending on your business size. Most can't afford to and it will get more expensive if the government gets involved. I say may because I don't know your business size. But actually Obama has stated small business may pay for healthcare:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...elp-for-the-mom-and-pop-small-businesses.html

All businesses will face higher income taxes in the next few years to fund Obamacare. It should be obvious, since 40% of individuals already don't pay taxes and that number keeps growing. If a small business even employs a handful of employees, it's revenues could easily exceed Obama’s $250,000 taxing figure. It is these businesses which hire the most workers, and it is these businesses that Obama will tax.

Some money facts:
Obama says they need to cover 46M uninsured. (That includes some making > 75K per year, illegals, etc., but whatever)
Obama admin will spend 1Trillion dollars next year to overhaul it.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/story?id=7834102&page=1

We should expect that to be a lowball estimate!

But you can buy insurance for the 46 Million for < $5K/per year per person
on the open market. Give or take some exceptions.

That would cost only 230 Billion/year if this was the best deal you could manage.

So why does Obama think 1 Trillion is such a great savings?

I see an awful lot of numbers and prognostications being thrown around and it makes me wonder why most of the rest of the 1st world countries can provide reasonable health care for all their citizens, but we can't afford it. My guess is that endless war, the billions stolen by the bankers, and a bloated military budget may have something to do with it.

On this site: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm They compare the military spending of all the countries in the world. The whole world--minus the US--spends $500 Billion. The US spends $623 Billion, is it any wonder that we can't afford health care? We're spending more than the whole rest of the world combined, that's insanity.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

ANOTHER "benefit" of giving the Health In$urance Indu$try federal-sub$idie$!!!

Yeah....Lil' Dumbya was quite the businessman!!!

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I see an awful lot of numbers and prognostications being thrown around and it makes me wonder why most of the rest of the 1st world countries can provide reasonable health care for all their citizens, but we can't afford it. My guess is that endless war, the billions stolen by the bankers, and a bloated military budget may have something to do with it.

....Not to mention those tax-cuts....for the 1%ers....that COINCIDENTALLY-occured....right BEFORE The Idiot Son pulled-the-pin on HIS WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Gee....it was almost like he wanted to help them avoid losses on their weapon$-indu$try inve$tment$!!)​

 

[chestnut]

The income tax rates are much higher in those countries that provide health care.
It gets paid for all right. More and more money to the government to decide who gets it and how much they can skim off the top.

Let's see, they'll confiscate the money. Then they say they will dip into it whenever they need to ... just like medicare.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

The income tax rates are much higher in those countries that provide health care.
It gets paid for all right. More and more money to the government to decide who gets it and how much they can skim off the top.

Let's see, they'll confiscate the money. Then they say they will dip into it whenever they need to ... just like medicare.

I am willing to pay higher taxes if it will secure medical care for everyone. Jesus said to LOVE OTHERS AS YOURSELF. Will the government mess up the system? Probably, but Social Security has helped a lot of people and I think we have an obligation to TRY to help others. Got a better idea of how to provide medical care to everyone? I'm listening. Universal medical care is working in a lot of other places, are we so inept that we can't do what others have done? And maybe even improve on it a little?

 

[chestnut]

social security was a tax taken from individuals for "their" retirement. but since the govt had to push more social programs, it was tapped into. That has never stopped. Same thing about medicare.

These programs were never intended to take money from individuals, put in a pot, and pay for everyone's problems. it was kind of like a mandatory savings account / insurance plan, that was to be put in a lock box, for that person's elder years.

Same will happen with these new "Universal Coverage" Washington is too corrupt to do the right thing. They haven't earned our trust, so why give it to them.

Maybe they can fire all the czars, and pay for some health care for those who need it. What about all of Obama's "post election" campaigning. He's wasting enough money.. campaigning on every issue.

If his policies are so great, and , in fact, they are the policies, the majority voted for when they voted him in. Why is he having to work so hard convincing america?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

social security was a tax taken from individuals for "their" retirement. but since the govt had to push more social programs, it was tapped into. That has never stopped. Same thing about medicare.

These programs were never intended to take money from individuals, put in a pot, and pay for everyone's problems. it was kind of like a mandatory savings account / insurance plan, that was to be put in a lock box, for that person's elder years.

Same will happen with these new "Universal Coverage" Washington is too corrupt to do the right thing. They haven't earned our trust, so why give it to them.

Maybe they can fire all the czars, and pay for some health care for those who need it. What about all of Obama's "post election" campaigning. He's wasting enough money.. campaigning on every issue.

If his policies are so great, and , in fact, they are the policies, the majority voted for when they voted him in. Why is he having to work so hard convincing america?

I don't see in it black and white terms as your last paragraph presents it. What we voted for is not what we're getting. He's lied to us, but arguing that he's better or worse than McBush is pointless.

Yes, Social Security money has been taken and used for other things and that's wrong. But, nevertheless, the Social Security progam has helped a lot of people despite the failings of the US government. I'm not looking for perfection, it's not available in any case, but what we have now can be improved upon--the proof is that so many other countries are doing it. Are their governments less corrupt? I don't think so.

What does the printing on your avatar say? It's too small to read.

 

[asur]

Mare wrote -

They compare the military spending of all the countries in the world. The whole world--minus the US--spends $500 Billion. The US spends $623 Billion, is it any wonder that we can't afford health care?

This thread is about healthcare, not military spending.
So why change the subject?

By the way Obama has made few cuts so far in military spending, but rather increased it.

He is spending tons of money in Afghanistan that is not producing good results!

 

[asur]

Mare wrote -

I am willing to pay higher taxes if it will secure medical care for everyone. Jesus said to LOVE OTHERS AS YOURSELF. Will the government mess up the system? Probably

Let's not bring Jesus, into it. I'm sick of people comparing Obama to Jesus.
Obama represents Satan if anything!

God said I shall not steal and it was one of his ten commandments.

Obama is planning to steal money from the working and giving it to the
lazy people that don't work through his tax plans. It sound nice but
look at his actions. Plus if you want to provide healthcare to others nothing
is preventing you from making voluntary donations.

Obama has been a very rich man himself for a long time. Yet his own brother has
lived in a dirt hut for years and Obama had not helped him! Obama is not a doer, he is
not a donor, he is a cheapskate!

That is one reason why my family will never vote for Obama, even if we make up that 1% that ain't.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Mare wrote -

This thread is about healthcare, not military spending.
So why change the subject?

By the way Obama has made few cuts so far in military spending, but rather increased it.

He is spending tons of money in Afghanistan that is not producing good results!

The whole discussion about health care revolves around money, spending it on killing and weapons prevents it being spent on healing.

So? Obie isn't doing a good job. You really think McBush would have done better since he admitted that he would continue George's policies? What point are you trying to make?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Mare wrote -

Let's not bring Jesus, into it. I'm sick of people comparing Obama to Jesus.
Obama represents Satan if anything!

God said I shall not steal and it was one of his ten commandments.

Obama is planning to steal money from the working and giving it to the
lazy people that don't work through his tax plans. It sound nice but
look at his actions. Plus if you want to provide healthcare to others nothing
is preventing you from making voluntary donations.

Obama has been a very rich man himself for a long time. Yet his own brother has
lived in a dirt hut for years and Obama had not helped him! Obama is not a doer, he is
not a donor, he is a cheapskate!

That is one reason why my family will never vote for Obama, even if we make up that 1% that ain't.

Religion is the second most powerful motivator--right after money--so it's gemane to the discussion.

Are you actually trying to say that Bush and McBush were not running a theft administration?

We tend to live in a democracy in which the majority wish to have universal health care like so many other countries have already. Obie isn't doing a good job of getting that done BUT AT LEAST WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT AND ARGUING IN THE LEGISLATURE ABOUT HOW TO DO IT. During the Bushy administration he spent vast amounts of money, gutted the laws regulating banks and insurance companies, and trashed our economy. Are you really saying that the Republicans would be doing a better job if they were in the White House? After 8 years of the Bush disaster?

I voted for Obie because I couldn't see voting to continue the Bush legacy, if Obie is doing the same as Bush or McBush, then he has lied and I'm unhappy with him. I can't do anything but vote for the lesser of the two evils and that's always a crapshoot. You have a better idea? Or are you just here to shout, sh1t, and shoot, but with nothing of substance to offer? Who did you vote for? Why?

 

[asur]

Mare - Obama is not doing a good job and some of my friends are staring to notice that voted for him. They are worried!

Obama is spending money in so many places that has nothing to do with healing or making America better. He has spent 3 times more than Bush already. He bailed out foreign banks, foreign insurance companies, foreign auto companies in case you missed it. That money alone would have bought healthcare for all.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Mare - Obama is not doing a good job and some of my friends are staring to notice that voted for him. They are worried!

Obama is spending money in so many places that has nothing to do with healing or making America better. He has spent 3 times more than Bush already. He bailed out foreign banks, foreign insurance companies, foreign auto companies in case you missed it. That money alone would have bought healthcare for all.

Do you have a point to make?

 

[chestnut]

Since when is it the governments' job to do everything for Americans.
That's why we have charities.

Let's try and have Washington cut down on their spending before they demand more from Americans, to give to those who won't. We pay enough in taxes already to take care of those who can't.. if it is spent wisely

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Since when is it the governments' job to do everything for Americans.
That's why we have charities.

Let's try and have Washington cut down on their spending before they demand more from Americans, to give to those who won't. We pay enough in taxes already to take care of those who can't.. if it is spent wisely

Charities cannot provide universal health care. I agree that there is enough money to do the job, and that's one of the reasons that I voted for Obie: he claimed that he would do things differently than George Bush--so it seems that he lied. I still think that universal health care is a good idea if we can work out a system for it.