Gore Lied, People Died!

[Napoleon]

No.

I suggest you do so.

ISG Final Report

That's not true. As late as last June we were still uncovering WMD stockpiles in Iraq.

Chemical munitions which had been abandoned decades ago, were forgotten by Saddam's regime, and are so degraded that they pose no significant danger. As David Kay told the Senate Armed Services Committee, "I suspect in your house, and I know in my house, I have things that are more toxic than sarin produced from 1984 to 1988." Then of course, there's this little gem:


"Iraqis seeking rewards have added toxic chemicals to unfilled pre-1991 chemical munitions to fool Coalition Forces into believing that they had found CW munitions."

They were very close to having nuclear weapons in 1981 thanks to French scientists at the Osirak reactor so you're wrong about them not having the capabilities to produce nukes.

The Osirak facility was obliterated during the Gulf War, along with the rest of Iraq's wmd facilities, and was never rebuilt.


"Saddam Husayn ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf war. ISG found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program"

"Although Saddam clearly assigned a high value to the nuclear progress and talent that had been developed up to the 1991 war, the program ended and the intellectual capital decayed in the succeeding years."

"Iraq did not possess a nuclear device, nor had it tried to reconstitute a capability to produce nuclear weapons after 1991."

"ISG has uncovered no information to support allegations of Iraqi pursuit of uranium from abroad in the post-Operation Desert Storm era."

"Iraq did not reconstitute its indigenous ability to produce yellowcake."

"Post-1991, Iraq had neither rebuilt any capability to convert uranium ore into a form suitable for enrichment nor reestablished other chemical processes related to handling fissile material for a weapons program."

etc. etc.

In addition to Iraqi Gen. Georges Sada making thee claims, you have former Israeli PM Ariel Sharon, General Yaalon (chief of staff of the IDF), Ali Ibrahim al-Tikriti (southern regional commander for Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen militia), John A. Shaw (Deputy Undersecretary of Defense), weapons inspector David Kay, and I'm sure there are others.

None of which have ever provided any evidence to support their claims.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

We're still uncovering stockpiles of old WMD's left over from WW2...

So what? He said that all of Saddam's WMDs have been destroyed (in an effort to prove that Saddam couldn't have possibly moved them to Syria since they were all destroyed). I said this isn't true since we have been finding WMDs since we first moved in, though they aren't the nukes we thought he had.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

I suggest you do so.

ISG Final Report

Nah, I think I'll pass. There's not much that I hate more than reading bureaucratic, government bloviating that goes on for hundreds of pages.

Chemical munitions which had been abandoned decades ago, were forgotten by Saddam's regime, and are so degraded that they pose no significant danger. As David Kay told the Senate Armed Services Committee, "I suspect in your house, and I know in my house, I have things that are more toxic than sarin produced from 1984 to 1988." Then of course, there's this little gem:

It doesn't matter. You said that all of his WMDs were destroyed:

We know he had WMDs until 1991 but all evidence points to the fact that they were destroyed.

Clearly not if we're still uncovering them.

The Osirak facility was obliterated during the Gulf War, along with the rest of Iraq's wmd facilities, and was never rebuilt.

But it was really Israel's 1981 raid that removed his nuclear capabilities.

 

[Coyote]

So what? He said that all of Saddam's WMDs have been destroyed (in an effort to prove that Saddam couldn't have possibly moved them to Syria since they were all destroyed). I said this isn't true since we have been finding WMDs since we first moved in, though they aren't the nukes we thought he had.

We've been finding old crap left over and forgotten apart. Hardly stockpiles.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

We've been finding old crap left over and forgotten apart. Hardly stockpiles.

No, we've been finding stockpiles. For instance, that big one found in June had something like 500 tons of munitions of chemical WMDs.

 

[Coyote]

No, we've been finding stockpiles. For instance, that big one found in June had something like 500 tons of munitions of chemical WMDs.

link?

 

[Napoleon]

Nah, I think I'll pass. There's not much that I hate more than reading bureaucratic, government bloviating that goes on for hundreds of pages.

An aversion to facts? You don't have to read the whole thing if you don't want to. Just skip to the Key Findings.

It doesn't matter. You said that all of his WMDs were destroyed:

Thats because they were. Even those which weren't directly destroyed by Saddam's regime were rendered useless by their degradation.

Clearly not if we're still uncovering them.

Clearly so because they're all too degraded to even remotely qualify as weapons of mass destruction and the Iraqis have been filling empty shells and declaring them to be Saddam's wmds for reward money.

But it was really Israel's 1981 raid that removed his nuclear capabilities.

Hardly. The Gulf War is what removed his nuclear capabilities both materially and intellectually.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

link?

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/06/...-found-500-chemical-munitions-shells-in-iraq/

 

[USMC the Almighty]

An aversion to facts? You don't have to read the whole thing if you don't want to. Just skip to the Key Findings.

I've heard it discussed so many times, I've just about read it. And anyway -- what makes this ISG report gospel?

Thats because they were. Even those which weren't directly destroyed by Saddam's regime were rendered useless by their degradation.

Clearly so because they're all too degraded to even remotely qualify as weapons of mass destruction and the Iraqis have been filling empty shells and declaring them to be Saddam's wmds for reward money.

You can't have it both ways. Either he had destroyed all the WMDs or they were too degraded to be harmful.

Hardly. The Gulf War is what removed his nuclear capabilities both materially and intellectually.

No. It was the IDF's tactical strikes in what I consider to be the most impressive air mission post-WW2.

 

[Coyote]

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/06/...-found-500-chemical-munitions-shells-in-iraq/

http://mediamatters.org/items/200606230008

June 23, 2006

The Duelfer report concluded that "old, abandoned chemical munitions" found in Iraq -- such as the ones hyped by Santorum and Hoekstra -- are not part of a "chemical weapons stockpile." According to the report [emphasis in original]:

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad's desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

* The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or deployment of chemical weapons.​

 

[USMC the Almighty]

No. It was the IDF's tactical strikes in what I consider to be the most impressive air mission post-WW2.

In fact, following Desert Storm, Cheney sent a letter to Israel thanking them for taking out Saddam's reactor because facing a nuclear-armed Saddam would've made the conflict a lot more painful, he said.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200606230008

June 23, 2006

The Duelfer report concluded that "old, abandoned chemical munitions" found in Iraq -- such as the ones hyped by Santorum and Hoekstra -- are not part of a "chemical weapons stockpile." According to the report [emphasis in original]:

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad's desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

* The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or deployment of chemical weapons.​

So, in essence it's come down to a matter of one politico's opinion versus that of another. One guy says they are WMDs, another says they aren't. We're never going to get anywhere like this.

 

[Coyote]

So, in essence it's come down to a matter of one politico's opinion versus that of another. One guy says they are WMDs, another says they aren't. We're never going to get anywhere like this.

Hardly. The Duelfer report was produced by the Iraq study group and published by the CIA. I'm not sure that is exactly one "politico's" opinion.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Hardly. The Duelfer report was produced by the Iraq study group and published by the CIA. I'm not sure that is exactly one "politico's" opinion.

Well the ISG is certainly political in nature and should be seen in that light. the CIA also claims that there were WMDs.

 

[Coyote]

Well the ISG is certainly political in nature and should be seen in that light. the CIA also claims that there were WMDs.

The ISG was bipartisan - and under a Republican dominated Congress and president and yet they still found no WMD's worthy of note.