Global Warming

[Dave]

This might be too big of a topic shift, but has anyone else thought about why the other planets in our solar system have been experiencing the same global warming that we have here? It makes me think that the problem is more solar than anything we could be doing here on this planet.

 

[palerider]

This might be too big of a topic shift, but has anyone else thought about why the other planets in our solar system have been experiencing the same global warming that we have here? It makes me think that the problem is more solar than anything we could be doing here on this planet.

There are numerous peer reviewed papers on the topic and the evidence is very strong that the bulk of the warming that is happening on the earth since the beginning of the end of the present ice age is attributable to solar influences. The same can be said for past warming cycles. The sun has a long term cycle of warming and cooling that matches the earth's own cycle of warming and cooling.

There is no crisis, and as a consequence, no money in promoting the idea that the earth is warming because of the sun and has warmed over and over in the past because of the sun. The present group of scientists, politicians, and media that are promoting man made global warming are almost precicely analogous to the priests of old who knew how to predict solar and lunar eclipses, flood cycles in rivers, and other natural phenomena that they could use to frighten their uneducated subjects and in turn, hold power over them. Do you believe the old priests would have lived half as well if they had explained to the people how an eclipse worked, or how to tell if the river was going to rise and therefore produce a good crop?

The earth's history tells us that for whatever reason, we have entered a warming cycle and it is going to continue to warm until there is no ice at all at the poles. Whatever sea level rise that happens as a result is going to happen because it has happened over and over in the past. Sea level has risen approximately 500 feet in the past 20,000 years since the glaciers began to melt back. It is possible that sea level may rise another 20 or 30 feet before it is done, but like all acts of nature, we are powerless to speed up, or slow down the process.

If money must be spent, it would be better spent developing technology that would make our lives more comfortable in the long summer that is coming rather than throwing money at measures that will have no impact on the global warming cycle that we are in.

 

[Dave]

A new study contradicts what we have been told about the effect of global warming on hurricanes. It has been a long standing theory that global warming will cause stronger hurricanes by making the oceans warmer and feeding the hurricanes while they are in open water. This new study says that glabal warming will also increase wind shear. Wind shear prevents a hurricane from organizing its circulation, and prevents developement and intensification. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that global warming is a good thing, but I do believe that this study shows that many scientists have jumped the gun with their doom and gloom prophecies about what global warming will do.

http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/070417_wind_shear.html

 

[palerider]

A new study contradicts what we have been told about the effect of global warming on hurricanes. It has been a long standing theory that global warming will cause stronger hurricanes by making the oceans warmer and feeding the hurricanes while they are in open water. This new study says that glabal warming will also increase wind shear. Wind shear prevents a hurricane from organizing its circulation, and prevents developement and intensification. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that global warming is a good thing, but I do believe that this study shows that many scientists have jumped the gun with their doom and gloom prophecies about what global warming will do.

http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/070417_wind_shear.html

Good point. AGW is a hoax and eventually the body of science that proves it will be overwhelming. I wonder what the next "big thing" will be when they no longer have global warming.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

There's no point in arguing with you because in my book you are an impossible person.

Actually, that would be palerider...

 

[Truth-Bringer]

Exactly. The Industrial Revolution caused undesirable living conditions and was the start of major pollution.

But the technology has improved our lives in other ways. Eventually, once non-polluting, free energy sources are discovered, technology will be purely beneficial.

The hardcore environmentalists urge to "return to the stone age" is completely ridiculous.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

I really don't care about drilling there. My point was that of course people are going to oppose drilling there, because it's a wildlife refuge. It doesn't matter if there's not much wildlife there, people still aren't going to like it.

And they'll be led by people like Al Gore in their opposition, who is nothing but a complete hypocrite and total fraud on the matter. His hypocrisy is fully exposed in this investigative report done by a liberal website:

Al Gore: The Other Oil Candidate

by Bill Mesler

For thousands of years, the Kitanemuk Indians made their home in the Elk Hills of central California. Come February 2001, the last of the 100 burial grounds, holy places and other archaeological sites of the Kitanemuks will be obliterated by the oil drilling of Occidental Petroleum Company. Oxy's plans will "destroy forever the evidence that we once existed on this land," according to Dee Dominguez, a Kitanemuk whose great grandfather was a signatory to the 1851 treaty that surrendered the Elk Hills.

Occidental's planned drilling of the Elk Hills doesn't only threaten the memory of the Kitanemuk. Environmentalists say a rare species of fox, lizard and the kangaroo rat would also be threatened by Oxy's plans. A lawsuit has been filed under the Endangered Species Act. But none of that has given pause to Occidental or the politician who helped engineer the sale of the drilling rights to the federally-owned Elk Hills. That politician is Al Gore.

Gore recommended that the Elk Hills be sold as part of his 1995 "Reinventing Government" National Performance Review program. Gore-confidant (and former campaign manager) Tony Cohelo served on the board of directors of the private company hired to assess the sale's environmental consequences. The sale was a windfall for Oxy. Within weeks of the announced purchase Occidental stock rose ten percent.

That was good news for Gore. Despite controversy over Dick Cheney's plans to keep stock options if elected, most Americans don't know that we already have a vice president with oil company stocks. Before the Elk Hills sale, Al Gore controlled between $250,000-$500,000 of Occidental stock (he is executor of a trust that he says goes only to his mother, but will revert to him upon her death). After the sale, Gore began disclosing between $500,000 and $1 million of his significantly more valuable stock.

Nowhere is Al Gore's environmental hypocrisy more glaring than when it comes to his relationship with Occidental. While on the one hand talking tough about his "big oil" opponents and waxing poetic about indigenous peoples in his 1992 book "Earth in the Balance," the Elk Hills sale and other deals show that money has always been more important to Al Gore than ideals.

Rest of article at: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=468

 

[Rokerijdude11]

So Al Gore Has been perpetuating these lies since 1967? thats what your telling us? that the whole time ole al has been involved in theis scientific chronicle of the warming and cooling cycles related to pollutions he was and is just blowing smoke up our ass?

what of the HUNDREDS of scientists who also believe in large part what Ole Gore has told us?what of the others in Als Group from college? the professor the other students they were all in on this too? how many of you have been following the warming and cooling cycles of the globe since 1967? EXACTLY how many of YOU?


Look I dont even LIKE Al gore I never did I watched his movie just so i could try and be able to ridicule him like all of you ...I watched the movie 6 times...and im sure ill watch it again as my curiosity is now peaked ...when i watched it i set out to shred it and found that I cant


most of the people who disagree with al all point to the same thing time and time again........
Man did not create Global Warming!

DUhhhh Hello Mc Fly Al gore NEVER SAID or supported that claim .......its a claim that is simple and easily understood not to mention correct MAN DID NOT CREATE
Global Warming ...................But he sure has CONTRIBUTED to it


I think some of you are so Politically partisaned you cant get past the fact that Al Gore actually has done something of intrinsinc value in his time on earth....It just blows you away so you never really watch or listen......and instead just come here to attack the position



the globe is warming at the fastest rate in recorded history

does it really Frigging matter if MAN caused it? does it really matter if Gore sensationalizes it a bit in order to get the Peoples awareness?..................NO the important things are IF we ARE in FACT contributing IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO to alleviate the rapid pace? or is it too late?


Or maybe we should just frigging ignore it all and maybe it will go away? all of you who say well they used to say an ice age is coming....if youd payed attention to the science
youd know that Global Warming COULD PLAY A MAJOR ROLE in the next Ice age......


most of you hate Gore so you wont ever get past that its a shame what they have done to thinking americans...............you all have been Nuetered by the politicians and corporations a flock of nuetered sheep



Had ANY other person in this world been watching this and participating since 1967 you would probably give it a look but is Al Gore OMG .......tell me exactly what does Al stand to gain?I think many of you are closed minded when it comes to many things and i have certainly seen the partisan polarization of our nation evident at this message board as well as so so many others

whatever i guess you all are entitled to your opinions theres mine have a nice day

 

[palerider]

So Al Gore Has been perpetuating these lies since 1967? thats what your telling us? that the whole time ole al has been involved in theis scientific chronicle of the warming and cooling cycles related to pollutions he was and is just blowing smoke up our ass?

Yep.

By the way, in the 60's and 70's good old al was telling us that we would soon be freezing in an ice age.

what of the HUNDREDS of scientists who also believe in large part what Ole Gore has told us?what of the others in Als Group from college? the professor the other students they were all in on this too? how many of you have been following the warming and cooling cycles of the globe since 1967? EXACTLY how many of YOU?

20 years ago, a climate scientist might be able to make 25 or 30K a year if they could land a job as a weatherman on a network. Today, via grant money, a climate scientist can make 6 figures no sweat so long as there is a crisis to keep the money rolling in. You don't think that there are plenty of sellouts out there who will gladly say whatever they need to say in order to live at the nice address and drive the flashy car.

Try and find a credible scientist who doesn't depend on grant money to buy his daily bread who believes the anthropogenic global warming hype.

Look I dont even LIKE Al gore I never did I watched his movie just so i could try and be able to ridicule him like all of you ...I watched the movie 6 times...and im sure ill watch it again as my curiosity is now peaked ...when i watched it i set out to shred it and found that I cant

The pseudoscience in good old al's movie has been thoroughly debunked. He has been challenged by a number of qualified scientists to debate his version of the facts and he won't get near any sort of actual debate.

most of the people who disagree with al all point to the same thing time and time again........
Man did not create Global Warming!

DUhhhh Hello Mc Fly Al gore NEVER SAID or supported that claim .......its a claim that is simple and easily understood not to mention correct MAN DID NOT CREATE
Global Warming ...................But he sure has CONTRIBUTED to it

Here is a simple (but accurate) chart showing the temperature cycles of the earth for the past 600 million years or so. Review it and tell me exactly what is particularly scary about our exit from the present ice age. The ice has been melting back for about 15,000 years and if past cycles are any indication, it is going to continue to melt until no ice exists anywhere.

I think some of you are so Politically partisaned you cant get past the fact that Al Gore actually has done something of intrinsinc value in his time on earth....It just blows you away so you never really watch or listen......and instead just come here to attack the position

the globe is warming at the fastest rate in recorded history

Recorded history doesn't even go back to the time the ice age we still exiting started to end. That amount of time isn't even a blip.

And the earth isn't warming at the fastest rate in history. Good old al convienently leaves the medieval warm period out of his pseudoscientific view of global warming. Did you know that during that warm period, that grapes grew as far north as finland? The fact is that during the medieval warm period, it was quite a bit warmer than it is now.

does it really Frigging matter if MAN caused it? does it really matter if Gore sensationalizes it a bit in order to get the Peoples awareness?..................NO the important things are IF we ARE in FACT contributing IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO to alleviate the rapid pace? or is it too late?

There isn't even the smallest bit of evidence to suggest that we are exiting the present ice age in a manner that is any different from the way the earth has exited every ice age before.

Good ole al wants power over you. He and is buds are the modern equivalent of the old priests who knew when the eclipse was coming and used the information to hold power over those who didn't know anything about eclipses.

Or maybe we should just frigging ignore it all and maybe it will go away? all of you who say well they used to say an ice age is coming....if youd payed attention to the science
youd know that Global Warming COULD PLAY A MAJOR ROLE in the next Ice age......

If we are going to spend money, then the money should be spent on technology that will make us more comfortable in the long summer that is coming. If past history is any indicator, it will be millions of years before the next ice age comes about.

Had ANY other person in this world been watching this and participating since 1967 you would probably give it a look but is Al Gore OMG .......tell me exactly what does Al stand to gain?I think many of you are closed minded when it comes to many things and i have certainly seen the partisan polarization of our nation evident at this message board as well as so so many others

First good old al and his buds predicted an ice age, then they predicted warming, then they realized that they couldn't just keep flip flopping back and forth, so they coined the phrase climate change so they would have their bases covered whatever happens next. They are frauds. Actual science doesn't support their theories.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

Yep.
I just really dont see the point in it all he hasnt gained anything from it?
By the way, in the 60's and 70's good old al was telling us that we would soon be freezing in an ice age.

No what they were saying is that if the continued melting of the polar ice caps disrupted the natural flow that occurs in the worlds oceans that it could cause the normal pattern to be "broken" which would then
Dramatically increase the likely hood of an ice age beginning in the area around the english channel first it could then spread ..............thats how i understood it the reason for the ice age was the warming



20 years ago, a climate scientist might be able to make 25 or 30K a year if they could land a job as a weatherman on a network. Today, via grant money, a climate scientist can make 6 figures no sweat so long as there is a crisis to keep the money rolling in. You don't think that there are plenty of sellouts out there who will gladly say whatever they need to say in order to live at the nice address and drive the flashy car.

really now basing things on that ,i can simply turn the tale and say the same of the scientists that you are relying on for you views couldnt I? I mean what your scientist dont like shiny cars and the palm springs address? Are you seriously denying that the earth is presently in a sustained warming cycle? maybe the end results will vary wildly but the reality is we are ina sustained warming cycle presently the charts all show this to be true Not Just Gores either............Remember Now I am NO FAN of Gores....I believe in the science Not the man.......

Try and find a credible scientist who doesn't depend on grant money to buy his daily bread who believes the anthropogenic global warming hype.




The pseudoscience in good old al's movie has been thoroughly debunked. He has been challenged by a number of qualified scientists to debate his version of the facts and he won't get near any sort of actual debate.

This may be in large part because Al Gore is Not a doctorate in any of the sciences involved. Where he got into this is when he was a kid in college he has stuck with it and watched it the rest of his life till now....I would be hesitant to enter into debate with doctors of sciences if i was in his position......



he is merly collecting data done in an ongoing scientific research project and combined them into a presentation
he did this long before he was aspiring to be in the whitehouse and dropped it pretty much during his run at the big house....and now that he says he is no longer looking for political office he has returned to something he says is important to him............again Im no fan of Gores just saying it from how im seeing it



Here is a simple (but accurate) chart showing the temperature cycles of the earth for the past 600 million years or so. Review it and tell me exactly what is particularly scary about our exit from the present ice age. The ice has been melting back for about 15,000 years and if past cycles are any indication, it is going to continue to melt until no ice exists anywhere.

Recorded history doesn't even go back to the time the ice age we still exiting started to end. That amount of time isn't even a blip.

And the earth isn't warming at the fastest rate in history. Good old al convienently leaves the medieval warm period out of his pseudoscientific view of global warming. Did you know that during that warm period, that grapes grew as far north as finland? The fact is that during the medieval warm period, it was quite a bit warmer than it is now.


Fastest in "recorded" history with the last ten being the hottest in 100 years..........the overall Mean temprature change Globally in recorded history has never been faster than the last 15 years

yes it may have been warmer then than it is now ...at that time the Ice packs at the poles, and ice shelf, surrounding the poles .....Covered far more geographical area than they do presently.....therefore the warming was not such a pressing issue as it appears to be today.... also most of the wolrds largest glaciers, were Much larger, and also helped to offset this warmer time period....


The ice at the poles, and on the shelves, is melting faster than it ever has, and is in actual danger of as you mention in this post.......melting altogether............while this will be a gradual thing the reality is that sea levels will rise, land mass will be lost, and the face, and climate, of the entire globe will change .....will it happen in a year.no probably not even 20 yrs.............BUT if it does happen to fall in under 20 yrs, what will that possibly mean for those of us still here?

we wont know for sure as alot of it on both sides is speculative




There isn't even the smallest bit of evidence to suggest that we are exiting the present ice age in a manner that is any different from the way the earth has exited every ice age before.

Good ole al wants power over you. He and is buds are the modern equivalent of the old priests who knew when the eclipse was coming and used the information to hold power over those who didn't know anything about eclipses.




Al Holds No power over me.....Im not a Liberal nor a democrat ...i wouldnt support the man via a vote and as ive stated I dont really even like the man,,the science he presented to me and thousand of others makes some pretty damn good sense....what dosent make sense is saying ohhhh its all ok ignore all the evidence that supports increased warming rates.....


Im not "Afraid" of the "impending doom" as thats not how i see it all being played out? Im not sure why some of you see it that way?I find the science compelling.....and interesting...ill look at both sides....and so far id have to say that the evidence supports an accelerated rate of warming ...that seems to coincide with population growth as well as indutrial growth...It dosent suggest its man made........or that its not a "normal" occurance.....it simply suggests that the pace is Accelerated......



Als not politically inclined these days .what power does he want to weild over the people? fear?to what gain?I just dont see it the same as you ,i dont see him gaining anything?


If we are going to spend money, then the money should be spent on technology that will make us more comfortable in the long summer that is coming. If past history is any indicator, it will be millions of years before the next ice age comes about.


yeah i mean why should we bother to make the air we breathe any safer for our grandchildren? I mean why spend money on energy saving, non carbon producing, power sources, and transportation means? why should we spend anything on assuring that the quality of air that all the worlds citizens breathes, remains of the highest quality? why dont we all just be self absorbing and think of our own needs? like Keeping the A/C kicked up for the summer months ,driving the largest most inefficient vehicles we can,and speaking out against wasting money on things to improve the quality of life we have


First good old al and his buds predicted an ice age, then they predicted warming, then they realized that they couldn't just keep flip flopping back and forth, so they coined the phrase climate change so they would have their bases covered whatever happens next. They are frauds. Actual science doesn't support their theories.

i seem to see the issue in a completly different light.Im not sure that is what they were saying.The warming can be the Cause of the Next ice age
thats how i understand it to be

 

[palerider]

No what they were saying is that if the continued melting of the polar ice caps disrupted the natural flow that occurs in the worlds oceans that it could cause the normal pattern to be "broken" which would then Dramatically increase the likely hood of an ice age beginning in the area around the english channel first it could then spread ..............thats how i understood it the reason for the ice age was the warming

Read the old science Roker. What they were saying was that we were going into a new ice age. There was no fear back then of melting ice caps, there was fear of expanding ice caps.

really now basing things on that ,i can simply turn the tale and say the same of the scientists that you are relying on for you views couldnt I? I mean what your scientist dont like shiny cars and the palm springs address? Are you seriously denying that the earth is presently in a sustained warming cycle? maybe the end results will vary wildly but the reality is we are ina sustained warming cycle presently the charts all show this to be true Not Just Gores either............Remember Now I am NO FAN of Gores....I believe in the science Not the man.......

Are you arguing that money doesn't influence people and that a great deal of money can't influence people a great deal, especially when they have never had what would be called a high earning capacity before?

And no, you can't turn the tale on the scientists that I refer to because they don't depend on grant money.

And no I am not denying it. As I said, the earth has been warming for a very long time. The glaciers have melted back from most of the northern hemisphere and they are going to continue to melt. What I find laughable is the fact that the glaciers melted back from texas, back from damned near the whole of the US before we ever got a good grasp of how to start a fire, and now that the process is almost finished and there is just a bit of ice left at the poles, you would believe that somehow we are responsible for the melting.

And if you believe the science and not the man, then you need some scientific education because good old al isn't promoting science, he is promoting pseudoscience.

This may be in large part because Al Gore is Not a doctorate in any of the sciences involved. Where he got into this is when he was a kid in college he has stuck with it and watched it the rest of his life till now....I would be hesitant to enter into debate with doctors of sciences if i was in his position......

Debunked is debunked. If you believe what was presented in his movie, you are placing your faith in material that was debunked thoroughly before the box office ever opened.

he is merly collecting data done in an ongoing scientific research project and combined them into a presentation he did this long before he was aspiring to be in the whitehouse and dropped it pretty much during his run at the big house....and now that he says he is no longer looking for political office he has returned to something he says is important to him............again Im no fan of Gores just saying it from how im seeing it

He collected a very limited set of data and completely dismissed the data that proves that his position is unsustainable. He comitted a lie of omission in an effort to make a political point. And whether or not he is running for office is irrelavent to whether or not his views are supported by science.

Fastest in "recorded" history with the last ten being the hottest in 100 years..........the overall Mean temprature change Globally in recorded history has never been faster than the last 15 years

Sorry guy, but the midieval warm period was both warmer than it is today, but CO2 ice core data shows that it warmed up faster than our present warm period, and lasted considerably longer than the warm period we are experiencing.

The thing is that we are still coming out of an ice age. There is no reason to believe that the transition from cold earth to warm earth is supposed to be a smooth transition.

yes it may have been warmer then than it is now ...at that time the Ice packs at the poles, and ice shelf, surrounding the poles .....Covered far more geographical area than they do presently.....therefore the warming was not such a pressing issue as it appears to be today.... also most of the wolrds largest glaciers, were Much larger, and also helped to offset this warmer time period....

So you believe that the warmth we are experiencing today is melting the ice, but the warmth that they experienced during the medieval warm period didn't? During the medieval warm period they were growing wheat and grapes in areas that are covered with ice most of the year now.

We are exiting an ice age and have been for at least 15,000 years. What exactly is it about this fact that scares you?

The ice at the poles, and on the shelves, is melting faster than it ever has, and is in actual danger of as you mention in this post.......melting altogether............while this will be a gradual thing the reality is that sea levels will rise, land mass will be lost, and the face, and climate, of the entire globe will change .....will it happen in a year.no probably not even 20 yrs.............BUT if it does happen to fall in under 20 yrs, what will that possibly mean for those of us still here?

There is not even the slightest bit of evidence to support the idea that ice is melting at a faster rate today than it has in the past. The fact is that for the ice to have melted back from most of the northern hemisphere in the past 15,000 years, it had to melt considerably faster than it is melting now. Also, refer to the chart that I provided you. See the temperature change from ice age to warm earth at about 450 million and 270 million years ago? Those look like very abrupt changes to me. Far faster than the exit from the present ice age.

we wont know for sure as alot of it on both sides is speculative

Paleohistory is not speculative. Good old al likes to mention ice core data going back between 600,000 and a million years ago, but completely fails to mention that the ice core data doesn't go back any further because at that time, before the present ice age, it was so warm that there was no ice. ANYWHERE.

Al Holds No power over me.....Im not a Liberal nor a democrat ...i wouldnt support the man via a vote and as ive stated I dont really even like the man,,the science he presented to me and thousand of others makes some pretty damn good sense....what dosent make sense is saying ohhhh its all ok ignore all the evidence that supports increased warming rates.....

I suppose it makes sense if you take it only in context of itself. The pseudoscience he presented in his movie has been thoroughly debunked. It is false, it is a lie. IT IS NOT TRUE.

Im not "Afraid" of the "impending doom" as thats not how i see it all being played out? Im not sure why some of you see it that way?I find the science compelling.....and interesting...ill look at both sides....and so far id have to say that the evidence supports an accelerated rate of warming ...that seems to coincide with population growth as well as indutrial growth...It dosent suggest its man made........or that its not a "normal" occurance.....it simply suggests that the pace is Accelerated......

Show me a single shred of evidence that suggests that the earth has exited past ice ages in a slower manner. The chart that I provided you indicates that previous ice ages ended much more abruptly than this one did. Based on earth history, the only rational argument that you could make with regard to man is that we are keeping the earth unnaturally cool since it is clearly taking longer to exit this ice age than previous ones.

Als not politically inclined these days .what power does he want to weild over the people? fear?to what gain?I just dont see it the same as you ,i dont see him gaining anything?

You don't? You don't think that he made a tidy pile of money on his movie? You don't think that he has influence now over part of the billions and billions and billions of dollars that are being thrown at the pseudoscience of climate change? If you don't see him gaining, then you are somewhat near sighted.

i seem to see the issue in a completly different light.Im not sure that is what they were saying.The warming can be the Cause of the Next ice age
thats how i understand it to be

No, you have confused actual science with the script for the movie, Day After Tomorrow. The two are not related in any way. The movie was just that, a movie and no computer model, no matter how wild, has ever predicted anything even remotely similar to the senario in the day after tomorrow. This is what we have come to. The panic has become so widespread, and the understanding of any sort of science on the part of the public has become so shallow, that people can no longer even separate movies from real life.

Just out of curiosity. Did you believe good old senator al when he made the claim that CFC's were destroying the "ozone layer" and achieved a political ban on freon for the 3m corporation, one of his largest contributers who just happened to have the perfect substitute for freon?

 

[Rokerijdude11]

Read the old science Roker. What they were saying was that we were going into a new ice age. There was no fear back then of melting ice caps, there was fear of expanding ice caps.



Are you arguing that money doesn't influence people and that a great deal of money can't influence people a great deal, especially when they have never had what would be called a high earning capacity before?

And no, you can't turn the tale on the scientists that I refer to because they don't depend on grant money.




yeah they alreday have those cushy Govt high payed jobs they dont need the grants money is money they all need it




And no I am not denying it. As I said, the earth has been warming for a very long time. The glaciers have melted back from most of the northern hemisphere and they are going to continue to melt. What I find laughable is the fact that the glaciers melted back from texas, back from damned near the whole of the US before we ever got a good grasp of how to start a fire, and now that the process is almost finished and there is just a bit of ice left at the poles, you would believe that somehow we are responsible for the melting.



check that baggage at the door pale. I NEVER SAID that I ever felt we were responsible for the melting

And if you believe the science and not the man, then you need some scientific education because good old al isn't promoting science, he is promoting pseudoscience.




Thats of course assuming that everything i base my arguments on came from Al Gore....or his movie which i told you isnt the case do you read posts? ......which they dont so its a MOOT point




Debunked is debunked. If you believe what was presented in his movie, you are placing your faith in material that was debunked thoroughly before the box office ever opened.



apparently you dont Bother reading what i have posted??? as for if you had, you would already know what i had said ,about Al and his lil movie! Im not going to repeat it, as you probably wont read it, this go around either!!


He collected a very limited set of data and completely dismissed the data that proves that his position is unsustainable. He comitted a lie of omission in an effort to make a political point. And whether or not he is running for office is irrelavent to whether or not his views are supported by science.

see above


Sorry guy, but the midieval warm period was both warmer than it is today, but CO2 ice core data shows that it warmed up faster than our present warm period, and lasted considerably longer than the warm period we are experiencing.



And again you didnt read??? you just responded!!!........How MUCH LARGER WERE THE GLACIERS THEN?..........and how much more water at the poles, was in the ICE PACK, in these midevil periods? Both are CONSIDERABLY MORE, therefore the WARMER temps, wouldnt have had the same effect..............But again im repeating myself, and you probably will not read this either.............. im finding this to quite tiresome with you..



The thing is that we are still coming out of an ice age. There is no reason to believe that the transition from cold earth to warm earth is supposed to be a smooth transition.



So you believe that the warmth we are experiencing today is melting the ice, but the warmth that they experienced during the medieval warm period didn't? During the medieval warm period they were growing wheat and grapes in areas that are covered with ice most of the year now.



NO sir i clearly stated what i felt and THAT was NOT IT i did NOT ever say or project that ......you did

you should actually try reading before responding i have had to repeat myself throughout this post whats your problem?
We are exiting an ice age and have been for at least 15,000 years. What exactly is it about this fact that scares you?

The ice at the poles, and on the shelves, is melting faster than it ever has, and is in actual danger of as you mention in this post.......melting altogether............while this will be a gradual thing the reality is that sea levels will rise, land mass will be lost, and the face, and climate, of the entire globe will change .....will it happen in a year.no probably not even 20 yrs.............BUT if it does happen to fall in under 20 yrs, what will that possibly mean for those of us still here?

There is not even the slightest bit of evidence to support the idea that ice is melting at a faster rate today than it has in the past. The fact is that for the ice to have melted back from most of the northern hemisphere in the past 15,000 years, it had to melt considerably faster than it is melting now. Also, refer to the chart that I provided you. See the temperature change from ice age to warm earth at about 450 million and 270 million years ago? Those look like very abrupt changes to me. Far faster than the exit from the present ice age.


but yes there is evidence to suggest such it exists in emperical data as well as in photographic evidence .....I never said that the earth hasnt had abrupt changes in the past? why do you keep inferring that i have said or support things that i dont?


Paleohistory is not speculative. Good old al likes to mention ice core data going back between 600,000 and a million years ago, but completely fails to mention that the ice core data doesn't go back any further because at that time, before the present ice age, it was so warm that there was no ice. ANYWHERE.



al isnt the only game in town now is he?


I suppose it makes sense if you take it only in context of itself. The pseudoscience he presented in his movie has been thoroughly debunked. It is false, it is a lie. IT IS NOT TRUE.



show us the ABSOLUTE PROOF that you have that what Als movie suggest is ALL false Please? ACTUAL proof not conjecture speculation opinion solid UN-REFUTABLE PROOF or else can it


Show me a single shred of evidence that suggests that the earth has exited past ice ages in a slower manner. The chart that I provided you indicates that previous ice ages ended much more abruptly than this one did. Based on earth history, the only rational argument that you could make with regard to man is that we are keeping the earth unnaturally cool since it is clearly taking longer to exit this ice age than previous ones.



I never disputed that in the past there have been far more dramatic changes?????????


You don't? You don't think that he made a tidy pile of money on his movie? You don't think that he has influence now over part of the billions and billions and billions of dollars that are being thrown at the pseudoscience of climate change? If you don't see him gaining, then you are somewhat near sighted.



I just guess i dont believe thats why he did the movie??? sorry thats not how i see it ......sure he made money so what? did he really need the money? i highly doubt it.....sure he is indirectly gaining ......i dont believ in my opinion that is why he does it?

No, you have confused actual science with the script for the movie, Day After Tomorrow. The two are not related in any way. The movie was just that, a movie and no computer model, no matter how wild, has ever predicted anything even remotely similar to the senario in the day after tomorrow. This is what we have come to. The panic has become so widespread, and the understanding of any sort of science on the part of the public has become so shallow, that people can no longer even separate movies from real life.



No, this is just you, and your rude tactic, of dealing with someone who actually takes the time to debate you...... I CLEARLY stated, that i felt there was NO immediate alarm, at any of this.Yet you make sarcastic references to a Hollyweird Movie. Fabulous debate tactics . Mature, succinct, ......fabulous....I have repeatedly read ALL of your posts, and actually ADDressed, what you wrote!! Im am really tired of your charade here .this is a fine tactic Buddy


What Panic pal? i have demonstarted NO SUCH thing? you are again Juxtaposing ...this is a regular occurance with you ? your right, Not even ole Als movie paints a picture as dramatic as hollywood..........and nowhwere did i say or support the hype??? You do not read, from what i am gathering.............Its quite allright, im used to this from your type.....





Just out of curiosity. Did you believe good old senator al when he made the claim that CFC's were destroying the "ozone layer" and achieved a political ban on freon for the 3m corporation, one of his largest contributers who just happened to have the perfect substitute for freon?

To be honest.... at the time i wasnt really paying it any attention? So i have no formulated opinion of how this actually went down. Therefore i will not venture forth, with an un-substantiated position.

 

[palerider]

yeah they alreday have those cushy Govt high payed jobs they dont need the grants money is money they all need it

You really don't know much about this subject, do you. The scientists who aren't buying AGW (anthropogenic global warming) theory are not, for the most part, government scientists. It is government scientists and academics who are gobbling up the billions upon billions of dollars.

check that baggage at the door pale. I NEVER SAID that I ever felt we were responsible for the melting[/.quote]

Then what do you think that we are responsible for? There is certainly no evidence to support your idea that the exit from this ice age is somehow different from the exit from past ice ages except that perhaps this exit is taking longer. This isn't even the warmest it has been in recorded history. What exactly are you blaming us for?

And again you didnt read??? you just responded!!!........How MUCH LARGER WERE THE GLACIERS THEN?..........and how much more water at the poles, was in the ICE PACK, in these midevil periods? Both are CONSIDERABLY MORE, therefore the WARMER temps, wouldnt have had the same effect..............But again im repeating myself, and you probably will not read this either.............. im finding this to quite tiresome with you..

I am reading your posts, but you must try making sense if you want to be taken seriously. Are you trying to argue that a large block of ice melts at a different rate than a small block of ice? It may take longer for the large block to melt, but the large block and the small block will melt at the same rate. The size of the ice pack at the end of the medieval warm period was smaller than it is at present. After the medieval warm period, we went into what was called the little ice age and the ice that was lost during the medieval warm period was replaced.

but yes there is evidence to suggest such it exists in emperical data as well as in photographic evidence .....I never said that the earth hasnt had abrupt changes in the past? why do you keep inferring that i have said or support things that i dont?

Actually, there isn't even the smallest bit of evidence to suggest that we are exiting the present ice age (a process that has been going on for at least 15,000 years) any more quickly than previous ice ages. NOT ONE BIT OF EVIDENCE.

show us the ABSOLUTE PROOF that you have that what Als movie suggest is ALL false Please? ACTUAL proof not conjecture speculation opinion solid UN-REFUTABLE PROOF or else can it

Good old al's conclusions are the lie. This discussion seems difficult for you. He ignores very crucial data that casts serious doubts on his conclusions and data that flatly refutes his conclusions. Since his conclusions are not based on all available data relavent to the subject, they are false. If his conclusions were true, he would be debunking the material that is used to debunk the pseudoscience he presents.

I never disputed that in the past there have been far more dramatic changes?????????

You didn't? You said:

"Fastest in "recorded" history with the last ten being the hottest in 100 years..........the overall Mean temprature change Globally in recorded history has never been faster than the last 15 years"

While recorded history is hardly relavent when talking about climate change, you seem to be suggesting that things are worse now than they have ever been.

No, this is just you, and your rude tactic, of dealing with someone who actually takes the time to debate you...... I CLEARLY stated, that i felt there was NO immediate alarm, at any of this.Yet you make sarcastic references to a Hollyweird Movie. Fabulous debate tactics . Mature, succinct, ......fabulous....I have repeatedly read ALL of your posts, and actually ADDressed, what you wrote!! Im am really tired of your charade here .this is a fine tactic Buddy

You said:

"i seem to see the issue in a completly different light.Im not sure that is what they were saying.The warming can be the Cause of the Next ice age thats how i understand it to be"

No credible science has ever suggested that global warming was going to cause the next ice age. The only place such an idea has been put forward is in the movies.

To be honest.... at the time i wasnt really paying it any attention? So i have no formulated opinion of how this actually went down. Therefore i will not venture forth, with an un-substantiated position.

Why stop now? Unsubstantiated opinions seem to be your stock in trade.






To be honest.... at the time i wasnt really paying it any attention? So i have no formulated opinion of how this actually went down. Therefore i will not venture forth, with an un-substantiated position.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

YEs I am saying that a LARGE block of ice takes LONGER to melt thats the point pretty simple. I didnt present any idea that we have come out of this ice age any faster than any others? I never SAID ONCE that MAN WAS RESPONSIBLE for ANY of this did I? No sir I did Not although you continue to try and ram it down our gullets.......Its Not what i said EVER PERIOD.Dolt


All i have said is that the increased population, and industrial growth, has contributed to the increased amounts of polluting gases, that are HELPING to keep the earth a bit warmer, by being present in the atmosphere..... .

No more No less ..I also CLEARLY STATED that is my Opinion, that we have contributed to warming. because of what i just described.............I havent said man is responsible for global warming....i havent said man is responsible for accelerated warming,I havent said man was at fault for any of these things.... i only said that we have Contributed


I never said Al was a Liar .I never said Al wasnt a Liar.... I asked YOU, TO PROVIDE PROOF, and you ramble on for two paragraphs, offering little more than your Un-substantiated OPINION!!


No proof........ Just you spewing to us that.. Al is a LIAR ...I said so damn it, youd better damn well believe it, because by gum i said it!!! yeah ok man we believe you ....because YOU said so Damn it!! ....there do you feel better? your rich sometimes pal..



You of all people, should be one to speak about Un-Substatntiated opinion!!! ha thats a laugh, at least I was Honest ,and answered Far more than i have been able to find from you, in any thread in this forum. You dont get laid much do you? you seem extremly uptight, and anti -social . just an observation from where we sit on the other side of the piece of glass.



your not reading posts, only parts of posts, no need to Bullsh^t us we can clearly see it, for what it is.Be a man and admit it.I really couldnt care in the least bit... you have continued to completly mis-represent the context of this thread .....no wonder people lose paitience with you



And once again for Clarity, I didnt say Global warming was "GOING" to cause an Ice age.....I said It COULD. there is a difference. The possibility of the ice melt ..could trigger this ...........not the ice melt IS GOING to cause this.....again inferring things that i havent said


and try to relax a little bit im worried you might have a grabber on us ok?

 

[palerider]

YEs I am saying that a LARGE block of ice takes LONGER to melt thats the point pretty simple. I didnt present any idea that we have come out of this ice age any faster than any others? I never SAID ONCE that MAN WAS RESPONSIBLE for ANY of this did I? No sir I did Not although you continue to try and ram it down our gullets.......Its Not what i said EVER PERIOD.Dolt

Ahhhh. Name calling. Nothing intelligent to say huh?

You said:

"And again you didnt read??? you just responded!!!........How MUCH LARGER WERE THE GLACIERS THEN?..........and how much more water at the poles, was in the ICE PACK, in these midevil periods? Both are CONSIDERABLY MORE, therefore the WARMER temps, wouldnt have had the same effect..............But again im repeating myself, and you probably will not read this either.............. im finding this to quite tiresome with you.."

This is clearly stating that large ice doesn't melt at the same rate as small ice at any given temperatue above freezing which is patently untrue.

All i have said is that the increased population, and industrial growth, has contributed to the increased amounts of polluting gases, that are HELPING to keep the earth a bit warmer, by being present in the atmosphere..... .

Pollution and climate change are two entirely different issues. The amount of greenhouse gas that we put into the atmosphere is less than the natural deviation in the earth's own greenhouse gas machinery from year to year.

No more No less ..I also CLEARLY STATED that is my Opinion, that we have contributed to warming. because of what i just described.............I havent said man is responsible for global warming....i havent said man is responsible for accelerated warming,I havent said man was at fault for any of these things.... i only said that we have Contributed

Show me some hard evidence that we have contributed to the warming of the earth. While you are at it, perhaps you can explain why mars, mercury, and venus are warming right along with us at the same rate.

You of all people, should be one to speak about Un-Substatntiated opinion!!! ha thats a laugh, at least I was Honest ,and answered Far more than i have been able to find from you, in any thread in this forum. You dont get laid much do you? you seem extremly uptight, and anti -social . just an observation from where we sit on the other side of the piece of glass.

Personal attacks? Wandering off the subject aren't you? If you can't defend your position, why bring it up in the first place?

By the way, look back through this thread. I provide plenty of evidence to support my position. So far, you have provided nothing to dispute it but your uncorroborated opinion.

And once again for Clarity, I didnt say Global warming was "GOING" to cause an Ice age.....I said It COULD. there is a difference. The possibility of the ice melt ..could trigger this ...........not the ice melt IS GOING to cause this.....again inferring things that i havent said

OK, lets see some credible science that says that global warming COULD cause an ice age.