Free Our Schools

[Rick]

No you fool. The obvious point was that if there are no rewards or punishments involved with the test, the students will not take it seriously. A former teacher indeed. Prove it.

So the way things are done in government schools is failure prone - I get it, I get it.

 

[PLC1]

Yep. What proof is better? Either you can do the work or you can't.

What proof is better than a kid taking a long, boring test when the outcome doesn't matter to him? Well, gee, let me think: Oh yes, practically anything. grades, writing samples, reading inventories, yes a lot of things.

Pure ad hominem attack, since you can't refute anything I said. And I've been teaching for years - you don't know what you're talking about. Also more of the "Duhhhh -it's never been done that way before! Duh!"

No, saying that your opinion was based not on logic, fact, or experience but ideology was an observation about the content of your posts. Were I to infer that you were, for example, a pussy, or that all of your questions were "stupid", that would be an ad hominem attack.

Tell me all about the >>>government schools<<<.

If you've been teaching for years, then you already know about government schools. If all you've done is work as a teaching assistant at the college level, then I'd need a lot more space than one post on a forum to fill you in. Did you attend a public school? If so, then for starters, you know that teachers don't spend a lot of time showing movies, whether Michael Moore made them or not.

First, lose the "us". It makes you sound...........pussified. Independent firms will face the same spur of competition as every other aspect of a privatized system. They do good work or go out of business. Government school tests reflect lib/left ideology, are dumbed down to accomodate the incompetent teaching corps, infected with pee see, etc etc. Don't extrapolate all the many failed aspects of the government school system to a privatized system. That's, well.......stupid.

Thanks for the example of an ad hominem attack.

If you think the tests are 'dumbed down", then you (1) haven't had the opportunity to take one recently, and (2) didn't read my explanation about why they are bogus.

("us"? )

You do realize that this is a public forum?

Don't you????

Or did you think this was a private conversation?

You see, it really doesn't matter whether or not you think you have won some unjudged debate. The other readers will decide for themselves.

Like asking "how many people are going to chip in and pay their electric bills".

Don't pay the bills, don't get admitted to school.

Do you have any non-stupid questions?

Oh, right. Since they're private schools, you have to pay to play. I wonder what will happen to kids whose parents can't afford school? Oh, right. There are always sweatshops. Maybe we could learn from the Chinese.

 

[Rick]

What proof is better than a kid taking a long, boring test when the outcome doesn't matter to him? Well, gee, let me think: Oh yes, practically anything. grades, writing samples, reading inventories, yes a lot of things.

You keep wanting to extrapolate the half-assed way things are in governments schools to a radically new system. Illogic on steroids.

No, saying that your opinion was based not on logic, fact, or experience

No actually it's based on all those things - the over a hundred year experience of competitive systems creating superior products and services compared to socialist monopolies. Example: the west german mercedes compared to the east german trabant. Monopolistic, government ordained systems with no competition and employees who can't be fired have no real incentive to produce a better product, and all logic and experience supports that, but you're too blind to see it because you're a walking encyclopedia of teachers union propaganda. When private firms don't perform, they go out of business because they lose their customers who go to the well-performing business down the street. When government monopolies don't perform, they just go on.... and on and on and on. Even a thick-skulled government teacher could just possible grasp the logic - maybe not you.

Were I to infer that you were, for example, a pussy, or that all of your questions were "stupid", that would be an ad hominem attack.

See, when you talk about "us" it sounds as if you were trying to bolster your lame position by purporting to be a spokesman for everyone else in the thread, it's really sort of pussy-like - know what I mean?

If you've been teaching for years, then you already know about government schools. If all you've done is work as a teaching assistant at the college level.

Can you actually READ, Mr. Government school teacher??? If so , go back a few posts and absorb the REST of my teaching resume.

Did you attend a public school?

Yes. My freshman year at university hit me like a ton of bricks - I got a C- average and realized I hadn't been taught to think in the wretched government schools I had attended. (Could tell you lots of stories about the crummy teachers in grade school and high school!). I buckled down and worked very hard and was on the dean's list a few quarters later and most of the time after that.

If you think the tests are 'dumbed down", then you (1) haven't had the opportunity to take one recently, and (2) didn't read my explanation about why they are bogus.

I've seen the results - the US coming in behind such as slovenia on the TIMSS tests.

Oh, right. Since they're private schools, you have to pay to play. I wonder what will happen to kids whose parents can't afford school?

I already covered that Mr. Tonedeaf. Go back and look. You're so busy listening to yourself you appear to have missed half what I said.

 

[dahermit]

Now you're truncating my teaching resume. Had to lecture 300 student classes in science when the prof was gone (frequently) and do almost all other teaching tasks. Taught science labs. Taught regular sized classes in science too. Taught math and science in community college and also for profit colleges. Extensive tutoring background.

Give it up.

And that relates to secondary public school education how? You had students who paid money to be there. Try the same thing in a school where the students would rather be elsewhere, incompetent administrators, and hostile, meddlesome over-protective parents who frequently intervene on behalf of their loutish children. The conditions in which you thought are quite different from those who are refereed to as "teachers".

 

[dahermit]

My freshman year at university hit me like a ton of bricks - I got a C- average and realized I hadn't been taught to think in the wretched government schools I had attended. (Could tell you lots of stories about the crummy teachers in grade school and high school!).

Oh, I get it now. You were one of those louts who were lazy and unmotivated in elementary and high school. And, later in life rationalize their lack of motivation on the system and teachers they had. While at the same time, ignoring the fact that many of their classmates in the very same system applied themselves and received a good education, good grades, and were prepared when they entered college. In short, one cannot make chicken salad out of chicken s....

 

[Rick]

And that relates to secondary public school education how? You had students who paid money to be there. Try the same thing in a school where the students would rather be elsewhere, incompetent administrators, and hostile, meddlesome over-protective parents who frequently intervene on behalf of their loutish children. The conditions in which you thought are quite different from those who are refereed to as "teachers".

I've BEEN in government schools as a student, K through 12, I SAW what happened, and as an adult, I can evaluate it. You keep on blabbering about conditions in government schools, while purporting to be in opposition to my proposed system which is radically DIFFERENT. ONCE AGAIN, (ears open this time???) in universally privatized schools disruptive students would be quickly booted OUT. Reread the last sentence eight times.

 

[Rick]

Oh, I get it now. You were one of those louts who were lazy and unmotivated in elementary and high school. And, later in life rationalize their lack of motivation on the system and teachers they had. While at the same time, ignoring the fact that many of their classmates in the very same system applied themselves and received a good education, good grades, and were prepared when they entered college. In short, one cannot make chicken salad out of chicken s....

No "rationalization" about bad teachers is necessary. In high school, citing just one example, there was Mrs. Gould (we called her "Mrs. Ghoul") the "english teacher". She usually came to class either sick or drunk. I remember one time she came in and just laid her head down on the desk and went to sleep. When the student chattering became too loud, she roused herself enough to lift her head off the desk and said "You rotten kids - you can SEE I'm sick (translate "sick" ) and you won't let me sleep!"

 

[dahermit]

No "rationalization" about bad teachers is necessary. In high school, citing just one example, there was Mrs. Gould (we called her "Mrs. Ghoul") the "english teacher". She usually came to class either sick or drunk. I remember one time she came in and just laid her head down on the desk and went to sleep. When the student chattering became too loud, she roused herself enough to lift her head off the desk and said "You rotten kids - you can SEE I'm sick (translate "sick" ) and you won't let me sleep!"

Come on, Pinocchio. It is becoming all too obvious you are making it up as you go. It is too bad that we cannot connect you to a polygraph via your computer.

 

[dahermit]

I've BEEN in government schools as a student, K through 12, I SAW what happened, and as an adult, I can evaluate it. You keep on blabbering about conditions in government schools, while purporting to be in opposition to my proposed system which is radically DIFFERENT. ONCE AGAIN, (ears open this time???) in universally privatized schools disruptive students would be quickly booted OUT. Reread the last sentence eight times.

In your dreams, "...in universally privatized schools disruptive students would be quickly booted OUT..." And in your dreams how many angles can dance on the head of a pin? Your personal opinion that privatization of public schools would result in rectifying all education's problems, is just an unproved theory offered by someone who managed a low grade point average in high school. Every dullard I met in high school had the answers for everything. Very convincing.

 

[Rick]

Come on, Pinocchio. It is becoming all too obvious you are making it up as you go. It is too bad that we cannot connect you to a polygraph via your computer.

I couldn't care less what you believe. Lots of government schools are hellholes and need to be done away with - it's long overdue. It appears most of you government school types don't know how bad it can get.

 

[Rick]

In your dreams, "...in universally privatized schools disruptive students would be quickly booted OUT..." And in your dreams how many angles can dance on the head of a pin? Your personal opinion that privatization of public schools would result in rectifying all education's problems, is just an unproved theory offered by someone who managed a low grade point average in high school. Every dullard I met in high school had the answers for everything. Very convincing.

Ah, you've finally given up even the pretense of debate, and fallen back on the inevitable "DUHHHHHH, it won't work, because, DUHHHHHH, it won't work!!!" plus the rest of the incoherent mental masturbation. And we can trust your expert opinion because your a representative of the FAILED government school system which is dragging this country down. I welcome your raising of the white flag - now quit cluttering the thread, 'kay? Scat.

 

[dahermit]

I couldn't care less what you believe. Lots of government schools are hellholes and need to be done away with - it's long overdue. It appears most of you government school types don't know how bad it can get.

I know how bad it can get...I experienced it. But what I do know is that it was/is not the fault of the teachers or the unions and privatization is not the magical answer.

 

[Rick]

I know how bad it can get...I experienced it. But what I do know is that it was/is not the fault of the teachers or the unions and privatization is not the magical answer.

I experienced it to for 12 years, and was let down by it. Like millions of other students, I mostly got where I am now INSPITE of it, not because of it. By falsely suggesting the reasons I offered are "magical", you are just once again ducking debate. In no other profession besides teaching would anyone claim after failing that "Duh, it's not my fault." As for teachers unions, they have been devastating to the US in many ways, eg they take union dues and spend it on a wide variety of leftwing causes, extending the harm they do far beyond the schools. Eg, they fully support the illegal alien invasion because it would mean more fodder for their wretched schools. The leftwing generally is also culpabale, politicizing the curriculum, injecting their homosexual agenda, suppressing free religious expression, pushing historical revisionism, adopting crackpot pedogogical methods, etc etc.

 

[dahermit]

As for teachers unions, they have been devastating to the US in many ways, eg they take union dues and spend it on a wide variety of leftwing causes, extending the harm they do far beyond the schools. Eg, they fully support the illegal alien invasion because it would mean more fodder for their wretched schools. .

Oh boy! Now the teacher's union has caused the alien invasion!!! For some one (me)that would use an armed civilian militia to stop aliens, I find that laughable.

The leftwing generally is also culpabale, politicizing the curriculum, injecting their homosexual agenda, suppressing free religious expression, pushing historical revisionism, adopting crackpot pedogogical methods, etc etc.

And of course the right wind is not culpable of attempting to introduce religion in the form of creationism into the curriculum and pass it off as science and maintain its archaic mono-theistic Christian domination of the school system while enforcing a mandatory pledge of allegiance.
Uh, what, "crackpot pedogogical [SIC,pedagogical] methods", are you referring to? Do you mean the "new math", that was introduced in to the curriculum (not a pedagogical method) by the Michigan State Board of Education during the Engler (Republican) Administration?

 

[Rick]

Oh boy! Now the teacher's union has caused the alien invasion!!! For some one (me)that would use an armed civilian militia to stop aliens, I find that laughable.

You don't even know what you're own left wingers are doing with your dues! Check it out: for just ONE example, they worked real hard to get the "DREAM Act" passed to help the illegals.

http://www.nea.org/home/LegislativeActionCenter.html

And of course the right wind is not culpable of attempting to introduce religion in the form of creationism into the curriculum and pass it off as science and maintain its archaic mono-theistic Christian domination of the school system while enforcing a mandatory pledge of allegiance.

Yeah, the leftwingers prefer the anti-christian, anti-religion bias they work into everything. The difference is, the right wing doesn't ILLEGALLY use teachers union dues. And what the hell is wrong with asking an oath of allegience to a country from someone who is getting a free education from it?

Uh, what, "crackpot pedogogical [SIC,pedagogical] methods", are you referring to? Do you mean the "new math", that was introduced in to the curriculum (not a pedagogical method) by the Michigan State Board of Education during the Engler (Republican) Administration?

How about "whole language", which has created a whole generation of illiterates?