Faux News gets attacked at convention

[Pandora]

No that's a cop-out I think. Because working hard is a relative term. Plus, working hard does not always equal wealth, which is a relative term itself.

I worked at a factory once. It was hard work. However, the work being hard is not the only factor. Anyone could do that job. When anyone can do a job, you can't expect to get paid a ton just because "it's hard work".

Also, working hard is not as limited a concept as 'putting in 50 hours a week' or 'sweating physical activity'. Sometimes working hard is putting in the time to learn something new to move up from where you are.

For example Dave Thomas. He started out as an employee of a restaurant. Then a manager of a KFC. Then he saved his money and invested in his own restaurant. Then he built up Wendy's, and added a drive-thru, opened another location, then incorporated and when he finely retired, he was a multi-millionaire.

Now at each point, he could have stopped and simply 'worked hard' at what he was doing, putting no effort into advancing. And he would not have been a millionaire, but he would have worked very hard.

I too, know some poor people who work very hard. But they don't advance, they just sit in the position they are in. You can work very hard at cutting grass and doing odd jobs, but if you don't invest in improving the situation, you are still going to be doing odd jobs and cutting grass the rest of your life.

Just so you know, there is nothing wrong with doing that. But people who do advance, people who do put in the effort to move up, people who are successful in life, should not be punished with taxes for being so.

Very well said, that is the point I was trying to make.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

and some people advance and do no work at all. in fact from what I have seen at many jobs, is those who advance dont work hard, and are just suck ups and those who realy cared and worked hard where passed over becuse they did not play the game. Its one reason I left the some of those companies...hard work got no reward, being a suck up and telling the boss what they want to hear was.

I also use to laugh becuse I went to school in a area with a large amount of wealthy kids...and even they seemed to act like they had done something to earn that wealth...they where lucky and born to the right rents thats about it. But they had a sense of they worked hard for that money...that was handed to them..and that it made them better then others...

I came from a family where my dad worked his way up over years and years to a good position given he had like half a year of college..so we did ok, but by the standard in the area I was in, we did not have much, and alot of the income we had went into living in that area ( for the what was suppose to be a better school....ps it sucked and was worthless ) But I did not have my parents just give me a car, I did not get my school paid for ofter high school..I worked for all of that...but those same ones who had it all handed to them, would still to this day act like somehow they earned all of that threw hard work....when realy they where just born to the right people. They are not better people, they are not harder working, and they are not more Deserving of anything.

Of course some with money did not have that, and did work on there own for it, but that was more the exception then the rule)

 

[Andy]

and some people advance and do no work at all. in fact from what I have seen at many jobs, is those who advance dont work hard, and are just suck ups and those who realy cared and worked hard where passed over becuse they did not play the game. Its one reason I left the some of those companies...hard work got no reward, being a suck up and telling the boss what they want to hear was.

Like "John" from the Butt scratching and Bass Fishing post. He only advanced because he was steady and was there a long time. Again, putting effort into "advancing" isn't limited to moving up a corporate ladder.

Back to Dave Thomas. He could has sat at the KFC and maybe kissed up a few people, and climbed a few rungs on the ladder, but he would have just been another little manager at KFC. Instead he didn't just 'do his job', he saved up, learned how to deal with money, purchased a small building in down town columbus. He sacrificed and left a steady secure position at KFC and went out on his own. He put in unGodly hours at Wendy's, and tiny independent hole in the wall shop became the 3rd largest fast food outlet in the world.

Just so you know, those suck ups don't get very far. I've seen them rise, and I've seen them fall.

I also use to laugh becuse I went to school in a area with a large amount of wealthy kids...and even they seemed to act like they had done something to earn that wealth...they where lucky and born to the right rents thats about it. But they had a sense of they worked hard for that money...that was handed to them..and that it made them better then others...

Hey, me too. I went to a wealthy upper middle class school system. When others were driving their cars to school I was walking. When I finely got an auto, it was a beatup B2000 Mazada Pickup, when everyone else was driving either their daddy's old Porche, or a bran new car off the lot. And most thought they were better than me. When they drive by in a 97 Camaro, and your in an 80s rusty pickup, you tend to get looked down on.

But that doesn't mean I have the right to force them to pay for my next car. Or anything else for that matter. Nor did I start being a an envious dork over it.

I came from a family where my dad worked his way up over years and years to a good position given he had like half a year of college..so we did ok, but by the standard in the area I was in, we did not have much, and alot of the income we had went into living in that area ( for the what was suppose to be a better school....ps it sucked and was worthless ) But I did not have my parents just give me a car, I did not get my school paid for ofter high school..I worked for all of that...but those same ones who had it all handed to them, would still to this day act like somehow they earned all of that threw hard work....when realy they where just born to the right people. They are not better people, they are not harder working, and they are not more Deserving of anything.

And I agree with all of that. I just also apply it to everyone. I don't "Deserve" anything either. I don't "deserve" health care for free, or a home for free, or free food, free clothing, free whatever else someone can dream up. Yeah they don't deserve it, and neither does anyone else. No one just deserves it because 'they exist'. Not you, not me, not the rich, not the poor. No one. We each have to duty to provide for ourselves.

Of course some with money did not have that, and did work on there own for it, but that was more the exception then the rule)

Actually the vast majority of millionaires are first generation wealthy. Steve Jobs of Apple computer, started in a garage hand soldering circuit boards. Alex Spanos started his career selling sandwiches from a used pickup truck. We covered Dave Thomas. Chris Gardner was homeless when he started his career as a stock trader. Harland David (Colonel) Sanders was a broke high school drop out, whose father died when he was 6, yet he later sold off his KFC franchise. Michael Ryan Flatley from the poor section of south Chicago, end up touring the world with his Riverdance, and now is worth an estimated $350M.

I think being born Rich is more of the exception not the rule.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Like "John" from the Butt scratching and Bass Fishing post. He only advanced because he was steady and was there a long time. Again, putting effort into "advancing" isn't limited to moving up a corporate ladder.

Back to Dave Thomas. He could has sat at the KFC and maybe kissed up a few people, and climbed a few rungs on the ladder, but he would have just been another little manager at KFC. Instead he didn't just 'do his job', he saved up, learned how to deal with money, purchased a small building in down town columbus. He sacrificed and left a steady secure position at KFC and went out on his own. He put in unGodly hours at Wendy's, and tiny independent hole in the wall shop became the 3rd largest fast food outlet in the world.

Just so you know, those suck ups don't get very far. I've seen them rise, and I've seen them fall.



Hey, me too. I went to a wealthy upper middle class school system. When others were driving their cars to school I was walking. When I finely got an auto, it was a beatup B2000 Mazada Pickup, when everyone else was driving either their daddy's old Porche, or a bran new car off the lot. And most thought they were better than me. When they drive by in a 97 Camaro, and your in an 80s rusty pickup, you tend to get looked down on.

But that doesn't mean I have the right to force them to pay for my next car. Or anything else for that matter. Nor did I start being a an envious dork over it.



And I agree with all of that. I just also apply it to everyone. I don't "Deserve" anything either. I don't "deserve" health care for free, or a home for free, or free food, free clothing, free whatever else someone can dream up. Yeah they don't deserve it, and neither does anyone else. No one just deserves it because 'they exist'. Not you, not me, not the rich, not the poor. No one. We each have to duty to provide for ourselves.



Actually the vast majority of millionaires are first generation wealthy. Steve Jobs of Apple computer, started in a garage hand soldering circuit boards. Alex Spanos started his career selling sandwiches from a used pickup truck. We covered Dave Thomas. Chris Gardner was homeless when he started his career as a stock trader. Harland David (Colonel) Sanders was a broke high school drop out, whose father died when he was 6, yet he later sold off his KFC franchise. Michael Ryan Flatley from the poor section of south Chicago, end up touring the world with his Riverdance, and now is worth an estimated $350M.

I think being born Rich is more of the exception not the rule.

look at the hand outs we give to the super rich though, is it not reasonable that the poor ask for something as well? I mean all I want is health care , hell I dont need it free just something I can pay for ...At the same time I can look over at a 600 Million new sports staium paid by tax payers, watch Northwest Airlines get bailed out by the goverment 20 times with billions, Big companies getting tax free deals to move there company there, and then those same groups hideing money in offshore accounts and not paying there fair share in taxes with all the loopholes....

I will fight for the poor to get health care any day over the billions handed out to the right in corperate handouts ( did we realy need to give the oil companies rebates? they made record profits)

 

[GenSeneca]

( did we realy need to give the oil companies rebates? they made record profits)

At what point do you recognize the record profits to Government off the sale of the same oil?? Is the government making 4.5 times as much money from Exxon, as Exxon itself made in profit, not "profiteering"?

 

[Andy]

look at the hand outs we give to the super rich though, is it not reasonable that the poor ask for something as well? I mean all I want is health care , hell I dont need it free just something I can pay for ...At the same time I can look over at a 600 Million new sports staium paid by tax payers, watch Northwest Airlines get bailed out by the goverment 20 times with billions, Big companies getting tax free deals to move there company there, and then those same groups hideing money in offshore accounts and not paying there fair share in taxes with all the loopholes....

I will fight for the poor to get health care any day over the billions handed out to the right in corperate handouts ( did we realy need to give the oil companies rebates? they made record profits)

Like for example?

No it is not. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm against all corporate welfare. You don't just do more wrong things after you find one wrong thing. The solution is to end all government hand outs. Not increase the government hand outs more.

Um... the reason they are hiding their money in off shore accounts is because taxes are too high. Raising even more taxes is just going to make the problem of them hiding the money in off shore accounts, worse.

Look, companies exist to earn money by offering a product. If you increase the taxes so that they can't afford to pay, you end up with companies going over seas and laying people off. You are not going to reverse this by demanding they pay more taxes so you can get health care. You will make it worse.

Sure, there's a wise idea. Let's tax oil companies more, and wonder why they don't invest in the US, forcing us to import more oil at higher cost. You don't see how this logic ends up with you paying more money?