Ecofascist Disasters

[Coyote]

OK, give specific examples of your dreaded "free speech zones", and how they were unreasonable in a specific instance.

Request duly considered and denied.

I've given you more specific examples and links then you have - exactly where do you get off demanding more?

How about providing some substance rather than rants?

You look back in the posts where I dealt with it - I'm not going to re-re-answer you every three posts.

blah blah blah.....zero facts, lots of worthless opinion.

Refute their facts and arfguments or shut up.

Request duly considered and denied.

How can fiction be reputed except for being exposed for what it is? I gave one clear example of that - I'm not about to waste my time going case by case. At this point, it's up to you to prove the truth of a site's claims, that is clearly biased, less then truthful and certainly not interested in accuracy.

Go for it. That is if you can find something else to spew beyond your worthless opinions. Facts would be nice. Fiction I prefer to read at leisure and for pleasure and occusional laughs.

Duh, yeah........and??

And who is "Sourcewatch"? An offshoot of the Center for Media and Democracy - a totally leftwing organization. Credibility of their commentary on Horowitz? A big fat, perfectly round ZERO.

Now, they, as well as another source I cited dispute Horowitz's facts. Can you dispute their claims or is your only recourse to cite Horowitz himself and whine about the leftwing sources that contradict him? How about some legitimate source - besides your verbal vomit?

Here..some more sources:
Decidely leftist:
http://www.counterpunch.org/wise06152005.html
http://www.hartwilliams.com/ava/ava0112.htm
http://joun.leb.net/nimmo1031.html

Less decidedly leftist but still somewhat left although it certainly acknowledges some leftwing bias' in higher education via self-selection - and, actual facts are presented (wow - that'll be novel for you Speedy!): http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/01/11/retract

The other example Horowitz was forced to back down on Tuesday is from the opposite end of the political spectrum. He has several times cited the example of a student in California who supports abortion rights and who said that he was punished with a low grade by a professor who opposed abortion. Asked about this example, Horowitz said that he had no evidence to back up the student’s claim.

In the interview, he said that he didn’t have the resources to look into all the complaints that he publicizes. “I can’t investigate every story,” he said.

Horowitz noted that when he publicizes such stories, he does not print the names of the professors involved, and that he has stated many times that a professor involved in such an incident would be welcome to write a rebuttal that he would post on his Web site. “I have protected professors. I have not posted their names and pilloried them. My Web site is open to them,” he said.

Even if these examples aren’t correct, he said, they represent the reality of academic life. (exactly how can you on the one hand use false examples and on the other hand make the claim they represent "reality"?) “Is there anybody out there who will say that professors don’t attack Bush in biology classrooms?” he said. Horowitz characterized the debate over his retractions as a diversionary tactic by his critics. “First they say that there is no problem [with political bias]. Then they say I’m a McCarthyite. Then they say I’m spreading false rumors. Everyone who is in public life and makes commentaries makes mistakes.”​

The point of the source's being left is not totally relevant when Horowitz himself has been confronted and admitted to false claims. Given that - how can any of his claims be taken without skepticism on the readers part and an assumption of bias on his part?

The above is the crap you spew in lieu of specific, actual rebuttal - apparently when it comes to REAL debate, you're a coward. Big text dumps from leftwing looney bins, gutless spewing instead of debate, appears to be your stock in trade.

More incoherent ranting attempting to imitate rational thought. Calm down, you are riding an emotional roller coaster here Speedy - it's not healthy. Remember: opinion doesn't constitute fact no matter how much you want to believe it does.

 

[Coyote]

If you can't read what people have already said in a thread, why should anyone try to debate you about anything?

In other words, you really don't know what fascism means but it sure sounds good to use the word.

That's ok, I understand

 

[Coyote]

Now you're in the looney rant-zone. As I already said (and that seems like what it's like dealing with you, always having "already said" something) this physically assaulting abortion clients is pure fiction - the abortionists have always been up to one thing - intimidate abortion protesters with the specter of long jail sentences for engaging in demonstrations outside abortion mills. The USSC stopped that after a 20 year effort by the feminists.

And the pro-some-lifers don't seek to intimidate? Oh give me a break. You're going beyond ignorant into willfully blind in trying to excuse the excess' of your own side. Extremists are extremists - and they behave as such whether they are pro or anti and they ain't no group of little old church ladies carrying signs. They've assaulted, destroyed property, and murdered for their cause. If they were representing a tree hugger cause you'd be quick to label them "Eco-fascists". You're hypocrisy is showing a little to baldly.

The public streets aren't "your space".

They are when someone is in my face, phsycially intimmidating me or preventing me from conducting my legal business. Try again.

Un, duh, garsh, lemme think, lemme think - how about that everywhere where there is even a theoretical possiblility of getting both sides - the government schools, the universities, the media is a liberal pro-abortion bastion?

When the pro-some-lifers start showing both sides, when the government prevents any group or institution or enterprise that recieves any US money from even mentioning abortion...well, then Speedy, you'll have an argument.

Right now you don't.

Only since you started imagining it in your fevered pro-abortion brain.

No relevence to this thread - please don't lurch into abortion free-association.

Lets see....you bring up RICO and abortion and all of a sudden abortion has no relevence to the thread....is this normal rightwing behavior?

HAR HAR -don't make me puke - abortion mills are in business to cash in on the abortion trade - nothing else. Feminazis have fought tooth and nail against laws requiring such pre-abortion counseling - to a feminazi, the only bad abortion is the one that doesn't happen.

Proof? Evidence? Or is this more of your rotgut rightwing talking point opinion? That's the problem with extremists and ideologues. They have no interest in reality or real people- only in imposing their extremism through misinformation and intimmidation. Get a grip.

And note: I say all extremists, not just some (ie -not just extremists that disagree with me).

Standard fact-free feminazi defamtion with no connection to reality.

Define fact-free feminazi defamtion.

Again, the "physical assault" BS is just more abortion propaganda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence

If you could hear anything more that your own feminazi rants, you'd realize that's the only issue I brought up.

If you actually read arguments in abortion related threads you would realize I'm not a feminazi. Try again. I realize reading comprehension isn't your strong point.

 

[Libsmasher]

Request duly considered and denied.

I'm surprised? Not.

I've given you more specific examples and links then you have - exactly where do you get off demanding more?

You've given none. You imagine that you have.

How about providing some substance rather than rants?

You are afraid of substance. You imagine away substance.

blah blah blah.....zero facts, lots of worthless opinion.

Ducking, evading, again. It's sad.

Request duly considered and denied.

Garsh, who woulda thunk it?

How can fiction be reputed except for being exposed for what it is? I gave one clear example of that.

No - you gave nothing - the "facts" and examples are all chimera whirling in your libbrain - oops! I didn't define that!

Go for it. That is if you can find something else to spew beyond your worthless opinions. Facts would be nice. Fiction I prefer to read at leisure and for pleasure and occusional laughs.

You're out of luck - the ten year olds already bought out the batman comics at the 7-11.

Now, they, as well as another source I cited dispute Horowitz's facts. Can you dispute their claims or is your only recourse to cite Horowitz himself and whine about the leftwing sources that contradict him? How about some legitimate source - besides your verbal vomit?

"Verbal vomit"???? Ooooooooo - before your stuff was just false and stupid - now you've progressed to sickening.

Here..some more sources:
Decidely leftist:

Yaaaaaaaa yaaaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaa - leftwing BS fiction - your stock in trade.

“Is there anybody out there who will say that professors don’t attack Bush in biology classrooms?”

SURE there is - ever since Obama came along, reality evasion is the big tactic for the gene-missing left wing.

More incoherent ranting attempting to imitate rational thought. Calm down, you are riding an emotional roller coaster here Speedy - it's not healthy. .

No no, a good laugh is a good thing, Megathink, and providing laughs is about the one thing you are good at.

 

[Coyote]

I'm surprised? Not.
You've given none. You imagine that you have.
You are afraid of substance. You imagine away substance.
Ducking, evading, again. It's sad.
Garsh, who woulda thunk it?
No - you gave nothing - the "facts" and examples are all chimera whirling in your libbrain - oops! I didn't define that!
You're out of luck - the ten year olds already bought out the batman comics at the 7-11.
"Verbal vomit"???? Ooooooooo - before your stuff was just false and stupid - now you've progressed to sickening.
Yaaaaaaaa yaaaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaa - leftwing BS fiction - your stock in trade.
SURE there is - ever since Obama came along, reality evasion is the big tactic for the gene-missing left wing.
No no, a good laugh is a good thing, Megathink, and providing laughs is about the one thing you are good at.

You're funny Speedy

Come back when you have facts in hand, otherwise we're simply derailing this thread

 

[Libsmasher]

You're funny Speedy

Come back when you have facts in hand, otherwise we're simply derailing this thread

Come back ANY time, Megathink, I always welcome a good laugh

And "derailing" THIS thread???

BLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE

 

[Coyote]

Come back ANY time, Megathink, I always welcome a good laugh

And "derailing" THIS thread???

BLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE GIGGLE CHORTLE GIGGLE YAAAAA HEEE HARRR YUK CACKLE HA HA HEEE HEEEEEEEE

Need a cough drop sweetie?

 

[Andy]

I was reading this article, got to near the end and it hit me: the U.S. isn't the only country doing that ethanol thing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24334375/from/ET/

Pidgey

Absolutely. There are a few others, and the effect is the same. You apply fuel market fuel and demand to food, and shockingly you get the fuel price effects on food. How surprising a concept.... I know I am... really...

 

[top gun]

Andy;36938]

No, their doing it for a tax break. It's called wise fiscal choices, not 'fear' of anything. Like I said, I worked at a Caddy dealership.

That's fine and well but I've owned 2 Caddilacs and 4 Lincolns over the years and I can tell you your statement is poppy cock.

Now your making the statement. Prove your own half baked theory.

See I said you couldn't prove it!
You're the one who said that it's rich people that drive the Prius (which is silly). I own a Lexus from Germain Lexus... there's a Germain Toyota about a quater mile from my home. I chat with the sales people all the time. Except out in Hollywood where a few actors drive them to make an environmental statement the general Prius buyer is middle to upper middle class.

Ok then you are incapable of rational thought. Never said any of that.

Of course you did. You deny all gas saving modern inovation. Rail against smaller cars. See a big plot to help rich people with tax breaks and you said you're sticking with your lovely 82 Buick.

Ok, well it's not listed on the VW corporate web site, and it not listed on AutoTrader. So... How about you start backing up your quasi-theories.

Really... you mean like this...

2008 Volkswagen Jetta TDI - First Drive Review
Volkswagen's 50-state-compliant Jetta TDI will be among the cleanest diesels in the U.S.

BY JARED GALL
February 2007

Amid the looming hordes of European luxury automakers planning a North American compression-ignition invasion in the next couple years, humble Volkswagen has announced its plans to return the Jetta TDI to the diesel dogpile in the spring of 2008. Powered by a new 2.0-liter four-cylinder making 140 hp and 236 lb-ft of torque, and either a six-speed manual or DSG automated manual transmission, the 2008 Jetta TDI will be cleared for sale in all fifty states.

Honestly... if you can't figure out the point of what I said there, then I have nothing more to talk to you about. (hint: had nothing at all to do with how the yugo compares to modern cars)

Dude!!! You brought up the Yugo and said that's what we'd all be driving if things continue the way they are. Look back at your posts.

I am starting to see a trend. You don't get any of arguments I make. Apparently they are beyond you. Thus you come up with your own points from what I say and attack them. The point I was making sparky, was that you claimed "we are inventing now"... as if it was all starting now, yet this is not true. All three of the technologies you show as proof, were invented long ago.

My friend let's be honest. You have no point. The fact is the automotive industry (motorcycle industry too as in the Harley V Rod) is constantly improving technology whether brand new or used in the past in some form but now updated to create better gas mileage and/or better performance for it's size.

Absolutely. Are you? Do you live your life so that others think how great your junk is? Are you insecure, and what you have makes you a man, or some such nonsense? Time to grow up for a lot of Americans.

It has nothing to do with if I or other Americans have "better junk" than you. It has to do with the quality, today's value and gas mileage of an 82 Buick. If you love it... you love it. But that doesn't make it a good ride in any other way. It's just where you happen to be stuck in time. As the Buick continues to show its age & gas continues to climb you'll eventually reevaluate... that's all I'm saying.

 

[top gun]

Andy;36943

I don't care what the Feds say. Toyota, the hybrid company itself, says they are not as efficient as a standard 5 speed. Do you believe some trustworthy, always truthful, politician / lawyer in Washington? Or maybe the company that actually made the car? I vote for the people who made the car.

OK I now understand I am not going to get you off the river of De-nile where you live... but still.

Why you insist on comparing CVT automatic transmissions to standards which has never been an issue at all is beyond me. No one I see is comparing an automatic to a shift car.

We've been saying all along that CVT compared to an older REGULAR SHIFTING AUTOMATIC helps a vehicle be more fuel efficient. And since the vast majority of people drive automatics this is very relevant.

You can say all day that all the tech data I posted from about 5 different companies is a lie. You can say there's nothing new or redeveloped in the car industry like VVT that increases gas mileage. Hey, you can say points are better than electronic ignition and carburetors are better than fuel injection if ya want.

But we all know it's just old decrepit gas hog big block thinking in a 4, 5 and 6 cylinder... CVT (or 5 and 6 speed automatic)... VVT... turbo charged world.

Cling to the 82 Bick... the only thing missing is u...

 

[Andy]

That's fine and well but I've owned 2 Caddilacs and 4 Lincolns over the years and I can tell you your statement is poppy cock.

Ok, you are wrong, but whatever.

See I said you couldn't prove it!
You're the one who said that it's rich people that drive the Prius (which is silly). I own a Lexus from Germain Lexus... there's a Germain Toyota about a quater mile from my home. I chat with the sales people all the time. Except out in Hollywood where a few actors drive them to make an environmental statement the general Prius buyer is middle to upper middle class.

Upper Middle class to me is rich. If you make a six figure income, you are rich. Regardless, you can't prove your statement.

Of course you did. You deny all gas saving modern inovation. Rail against smaller cars. See a big plot to help rich people with tax breaks and you said you're sticking with your lovely 82 Buick.

LOL this is stupid. Making up stuff again? I never railed against smaller cars. I railed against weak dangerous cars that will cause more auto fatalities. I never denied all gas saving modern innovation, I denied hybrids are economical. You really need some reading comprehension lessons.

Really... you mean like this...

2008 Volkswagen Jetta TDI - First Drive Review
Volkswagen's 50-state-compliant Jetta TDI will be among the cleanest diesels in the U.S.

...will be, as in, isn't yet. See, you can't even read someone else's article correctly, it's no wonder you can't figure out my posts.

Dude!!! You brought up the Yugo and said that's what we'd all be driving if things continue the way they are. Look back at your posts.

Sigh... How I long for intelligent readers and posters. Ok since you didn't get it, I'll explain. The point about bringing up the yugo, isn't specific model specs. It's government controlling every aspect of what we are allowed to get and have. The people of Yugoslavia had no choice in what auto was produced and what auto they could buy, because the government controlled everything.

We are heading that way now. There are tons of regulations, fees, controls, and standards on cars, that dictate everything. Seemingly every week they find some reason to add more. At some point, government will dictate every aspect of our auto choices for us, just like... the Yugo. Did you get it now? I wager not, but at least I can say I tried.

We already have people that support regulating who can get SUVs and Trucks. They want to make it so you have to provide proof of need to buy either. You say you restore cars, well in case you missed it, a few years back, a bill was introduced that would force owners of pre-smog cars to either have their engines updated to meet smog requirements, or be scrapped! See how well your restoring pass time goes then.

My friend let's be honest. You have no point. The fact is the automotive industry (motorcycle industry too as in the Harley V Rod) is constantly improving technology whether brand new or used in the past in some form but now updated to create better gas mileage and/or better performance for it's size.

Well duh... I know, I work in a company that designs products to improve gas milage. I likely know of more gas saving technologies than you do.

It has nothing to do with if I or other Americans have "better junk" than you. It has to do with the quality, today's value and gas mileage of an 82 Buick. If you love it... you love it. But that doesn't make it a good ride in any other way. It's just where you happen to be stuck in time. As the Buick continues to show its age & gas continues to climb you'll eventually reevaluate... that's all I'm saying.

lol Peachy... glad you agree that there are better rides than my 82 Buick. We agree on something... how depressing. Where did I ever hold up my car as being better than all new cars? Why am I even talking to you?... you have made up statements, I never said, for the last 3 posts... It's like I'm talking to the mental equivalent of a wall...

 

[Andy]

OK I now understand I am not going to get you off the river of De-nile where you live... but still.

I don't even have to deny anything yet. Half the stuff you point out, is about things I never said. I've completely proven the points I was making. So until you make a case about something I actually said...

Why you insist on comparing CVT automatic transmissions to standards which has never been an issue at all is beyond me. No one I see is comparing an automatic to a shift car.

Um.. because you are trying to save gas. Wasn't the claim, it will save gas? 5-speed saves more gas. Quite a bit more. 10 MPG is huge in auto terms.

We've been saying all along that CVT compared to an older REGULAR SHIFTING AUTOMATIC helps a vehicle be more fuel efficient. And since the vast majority of people drive automatics this is very relevant.

LOL hilarious. You claim I'm living in the past, meanwhile you want to compare a modern CVT to what? An old 1950s 3 speed automatic? Or even my 1982 Buicks 4 speed automatic? Oh well duh... I would have to agree with that. A 2008 CVT likely does do better than a 30 year old 4 speed. Very good (gives another pat on the back). That's about as good as your year old report that Prius sales are up.

You can say all day that all the tech data I posted from about 5 different companies is a lie. You can say there's nothing new or redeveloped in the car industry like VVT that increases gas mileage. Hey, you can say points are better than electronic ignition and carburetors are better than fuel injection if ya want.

Where did I say it's a lie? Hello?? Hello in there? Anyone home? I can see why you are so worried about what car you drive. Clearly no one hangs around you for your conversational ability.

But we all know it's just old decrepit gas hog big block thinking in a 4, 5 and 6 cylinder... CVT (or 5 and 6 speed automatic)... VVT... turbo charged world.

Cling to the 82 Bick... the only thing missing is u... [/COLOR]

Congrats! You soundly defeated that straw-man. I'm sure you can event another for your next post.

 

[Jarlaxle]

If CVT's didn't work, they wouldn't be widely used. There are several companies (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Chrysler, probably a few I missed) using them. They work.

Um.. because you are trying to save gas. Wasn't the claim, it will save gas? 5-speed saves more gas. Quite a bit more. 10 MPG is huge in auto terms.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of new vehicles have automatic transmissions. Thus, the CVT provides a real-world advantage (rather than the standard's largely theoretical advantage).

 

[top gun]

Here ya go Andy. I'll post a lot more if you really want me to spoon feed ya.

The 2008 is the newest VW Diesel... how about this 2005... better?

2005 Volkswagen Jetta GLS TDI $22,995

Price $22,995
Mileage 67,050
Body Style Wagon
Exterior Color Spice Red
Interior Color Beige
Engine 4 Cylinder Diesel Tur
Transmission Automatic
Drive Type 2 wheel drive - front
Fuel Type Diesel
Doors Four Door
Stock No. 3849
VIN WVWSR61J75W002485
Top Get a Loan
Get a Free CARFAX Record Check for this Volkswagen.
Get a free insurance quote for this Volkswagen

As someone who owned 2 body shops in the late 80's early 90's (PAINT MASTERS & PAINT TECH) who's done restoration jobs and driven everything from 55 Buick Specials (there ya go ) to 60's Mustangs and 70's Corvettes. I'll take today.

My favorite American car of all times is a 1970 Plum Crazy NHRA 426 Hemi Cuda. But it would be a terrible daily driver today. The old cars end up with historical plates and are mostly only driven for holiday events and car shows. (82 Buick... you're getting close)

Cafe' Standards are about what you will let be sold in the land of TODAY!

Unfortunately Andy if we had went your route America would be like Cuba. We'd be toolin' around in the 10 times rebuilt 56 Chevy. We'd still be breathing leaded gas in cars getting 6 mpg City 10 mpg Highway without padded dashes, ABS, seatbelts or air bags.

Evolve my friend... evolve

 

[Andy]

Here ya go Andy. I'll post a lot more if you really want me to spoon feed ya.

The 2008 is the newest VW Diesel... how about this 2005... better?

Let's review. You claimed they had a high gas milage car today... as in TODAY. You have successfully proven they will have one... which I already knew. You have successfully proven they did have one... which I already knew. (remember I brought it up). Yet you have failed to prove they have one TODAY. So no, it's not better. You still fail.

As someone who owned 2 body shops in the late 80's early 90's (PAINT MASTERS & PAINT TECH) who's done restoration jobs and driven everything from 55 Buick Specials (there ya go ) to 60's Mustangs and 70's Corvettes. I'll take today.

Good for you.

Cafe' Standards are about what you will let be sold in the land of TODAY!

In a free country, should the government be allowed to dictate what is product is brought to market? (Read the constitution)

Unfortunately Andy if we had went your route America would be like Cuba. We'd be toolin' around in the 10 times rebuilt 56 Chevy. We'd still be breathing leaded gas in cars getting 6 mpg City 10 mpg Highway without padded dashes, ABS, seatbelts or air bags.

No, we would not. In fact I'd say that autos would be far better and more technologically advanced than they are now under my system. Under a socialistic government, we'd be like Cuba for sure, which is what you advocate by virtue of supporting more government control.

This is a fundamental flaw of liberal/socialist views. It's the idea that something would not happen if government didn't do something. This is exactly how Albore can claim he had anything at all to do with the internet, because if our wonderful lawyer/politicians group (that are oh so trustworthy) didn't pass bill X or Y, that did such and such, then it would never have happened.

Bull... auto manufactures have always been trying to get the best mileage possible out of economy cars. Why do you think the Handa 600 was created years prior to CAFE even existing? By your logic, no one would develop high gas milage cars prior to CAFE being created. Not so. In fact, while working at the Caddy dealership, I found promotional material in an attic from the 1960s (I should have asked for them. Might have fetched a good price on Ebay), inside one of the primary selling points on a few models was 'best fuel economy in it's class'. So long before CAFE existed, getting the best MPG possible was important (even to rich Caddy owners).

Just like, fuel economy would continue if CAFE was eliminated today. The only difference is, people would have more choice. I'm for freedom. You seem to have this dumb idea I'm 'against' small cars. That could not be further from the truth. I'm for freedom. If you want to drive a plastic 2 seat, wind-up toy... I am for you being able to do that. If you an expensive Honda Prius that will cost you more up front, than you'll ever save in gas cost... I am for you being able to do that.

However, freedom shouldn't be limited to those who do what the government likes. If someone, for whatever reason they choose, wants to be a full size conversion van with built in fridge Wii and 30' LCD display, that gets 5.5 MPG, I think that should be able to buy that... why? Because what is freedom if not the ability to buy what product you want? If VW comes out with a W12 1,000 HP sports car that gets 10 MPG... they should be able to sell it, and I should be able to buy it. These are the freedoms the Constitution was written for. You support a oppressive authoritarian government, dictating our lives.

Just to see how far mentally gone you are on this path of socialism... tell me, if CAFE was eliminated today, that all cars would suddenly start getting horrible gas milage? You think Honda would suddenly have Civics doing 15 MPG with the next model change because CAFE was removed? Foolishness. All of them would continue to improve gas milage, and likely with better technology, than with an expensive half baked hybrid system that costs you $7000 more to save a few hundred a year in gas.