Does the government make vaccine now?

[PLC1]

Shortage of Vaccine Poses Political Test for Obama

The shortage, caused by delays in the vaccine manufacturing process, has put the president in exactly the situation he sought to avoid — one in which questions are being raised about the government’s response.

Of course, blaming the president for the failure of the private sector to make enough vaccine is nothing new:

Mr. Obama and his top aides studied earlier flu outbreaks, including one in 2004, when a vaccine shortage created a political problem for President George W. Bush, and another in 1976, when President Gerald R. Ford ordered a mass vaccination campaign for an epidemic that never materialized — and faced intense criticism for it.

There is also a shortage of the seasonal flu vaccine, as I discovered yesterday looking for an immunization.

It looks to me like we're expecting the government to solve a problem it didn't create and can't solve.

 

[Dr.Who]

As one who has followed the vaccine issue closely for a few years now I would like to weigh in.

No, the gov does not make vaccine. Governments around the world are virtually the only buyers and distributors of vaccine but, this one anyway, is made almost entirely by a French company. I'm not really sure one could say that a company in the government run health care field in France could be private but lets assume they are.

First it takes six months to make a vaccine and six months ago we did not know that we would definitely by buying h1n1 vaccine. It was just not feasable for the manufacturer in France to make enough vaccine for the world, especially without having orders from the buyers who did not know how much they would be buying in six months. The company Sanofi-Aventis SA did not even receive orders from the US until September and then it was only an order bringing the total wanted by us to 75 million doses. Assuming the company completed the order and made all the doses there is still a shortage.

I would not even blame government for the long lines everywhere and the shortages. We see those lines in multiple countries at both private clinics and at government distributors.

Given what this flu is doing (not much) and what it could do (kill half the worlds population) I think the President and the CDC are doing a fine job of walking the line between hysteria and reserve.

 

[PLC1]

As one who has followed the vaccine issue closely for a few years now I would like to weigh in.

No, the gov does not make vaccine. Governments around the world are virtually the only buyers and distributors of vaccine but, this one anyway, is made almost entirely by a French company. I'm not really sure one could say that a company in the government run health care field in France could be private but lets assume they are.

First it takes six months to make a vaccine and six months ago we did not know that we would definitely by buying h1n1 vaccine. It was just not feasable for the manufacturer in France to make enough vaccine for the world, especially without having orders from the buyers who did not know how much they would be buying in six months. The company Sanofi-Aventis SA did not even receive orders from the US until September and then it was only an order bringing the total wanted by us to 75 million doses. Assuming the company completed the order and made all the doses there is still a shortage.

I would not even blame government for the long lines everywhere and the shortages. We see those lines in multiple countries at both private clinics and at government distributors.

Given what this flu is doing (not much) and what it could do (kill half the worlds population) I think the President and the CDC are doing a fine job of walking the line between hysteria and reserve.

For once, I find no point of disagreement with your post.

And, believe me, I tried!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

of course if Obama did anything, they would yell about that as well...

 

[Andy]

of course if Obama did anything, they would yell about that as well...

Never mind that fact that I've watched you squeal about everything Bush did or has done in the past. Why the double standard? No one is allowed to yell about what Obama does, but you can complain about everything Bush ever did?

Actually, what I really want to know is how are we sure this vaccine is any better than the last one?

In 1976 when swine flu last showed up, and Ford scared everyone into getting Vaccinated, more people died from the vaccination, than did from the swine flu.

Even now, swine flu is only 1% more lethal than the regular seasonal flu. Why are we so spooked by something barely worse than regular flu?

I hear of people getting sick from flu vaccines all the time. How do we know this vaccine is any better than the last one?

 

[Dr.Who]

of course if Obama did anything, they would yell about that as well...

That's a true part of the process that is unfortunately done by both sides. The stuff that sticks will be important.

 

[Dr.Who]

Never mind that fact that I've watched you squeal about everything Bush did or has done in the past. Why the double standard? No one is allowed to yell about what Obama does, but you can complain about everything Bush ever did?

Yep.

Actually, what I really want to know is how are we sure this vaccine is any better than the last one?

Is it better? My family got the seasonal vaccine but under our doctors orders and after condisering the information on the net we are skipping the h1n1 vaccine for now - maybe next wave (?).

In 1976 when swine flu last showed up, and Ford scared everyone into getting Vaccinated, more people died from the vaccination, than did from the swine flu.

Here is an article discussing the 1976 fiasco. It shows that even when governments have the best of intentions when they screw up a lot can go wrong.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol12no01/05-1007.htm

At the time many on the left blamed the administration for intentionally pushing vaccines to line the pocketbooks of the pharmaceutical industry. Where are those voices now? Did those voices just shift to the right?

Even now, swine flu is only 1% more lethal than the regular seasonal flu. Why are we so spooked by something barely worse than regular flu?

As was true in 1976 it is equally true now that a novel virus could develop a case fatality rate high enough and coupled with a clinical attack rate already high enough to then kill billions. That has not happened so far but the change in the virus that results in that could occur any day.

Do the math:

CFR x CAR = deaths

In June the estimates were that the CFR would be 2 - 10% and the CAR would be 39 - 60%. At the low end if 39% of the worlds 7 billion people got the disease and 2% of them died that would mean that would mean that .0546 billion people or 382,200,000 people dead. When this first started people in Mexico were dropping like flies and the CFR looked a lot higher. What would the deaths be if the CFR were 40% and the CAR were 40%?

I hear of people getting sick from flu vaccines all the time. How do we know this vaccine is any better than the last one?

So far more people have received this vaccine than did last time so the guinea pigs are all around us.

But it is still disconcerting that the manufacturers have immunity from prosecution.

But here is the real thing to consider; if you get the vaccine it will take at least 14 days for you to be immune provided that the vaccine takes effect for you. Kids of a certain age will need to be vaccinated weeks apart two or three times before it will take effect. By the time a kids gets the right number of doses and waits for it to completely take effect this wave will be over. ( it is probably peaking right now)

The next wave hits in the spring and then again in the fall. Historically each successive wave is worst than the last as the virus mutates. Of course it could mutate to a less virulent form as well. Eventually everyone who survives the first few waves will be immune and it will die out.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Never mind that fact that I've watched you squeal about everything Bush did or has done in the past. Why the double standard? No one is allowed to yell about what Obama does, but you can complain about everything Bush ever did?

Actually, what I really want to know is how are we sure this vaccine is any better than the last one?

In 1976 when swine flu last showed up, and Ford scared everyone into getting Vaccinated, more people died from the vaccination, than did from the swine flu.

Even now, swine flu is only 1% more lethal than the regular seasonal flu. Why are we so spooked by something barely worse than regular flu?

I hear of people getting sick from flu vaccines all the time. How do we know this vaccine is any better than the last one?

well you should have payed attention more then...and also its not my fault he made so so many bad choices....( you dont get a 30% approval rating with great choices)

 

[Andy]

well you should have payed attention more then...and also its not my fault he made so so many bad choices....( you dont get a 30% approval rating with great choices)

Yeah, and Obama makes the same choices, only worse, and you sing praises.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Yeah, and Obama makes the same choices, only worse, and you sing praises.

Yep Obama is making all the same choices as Bush did....Yet Republicans voted Bush into office 2 times, and Act like Obama is the antichrist...odd how that works...

Wars Obama has started? 0
Bush 1 ( afghanistan we did not start and I fully supported from the start to the end)

Illegal camps to put people with no trial, charges, POW Status, Legal Help....
Obama 0
Bush at least one

Major attempts to reform horrible Health Care system?
Bush Zero
Obama 1 so far

Budget Surpluses turned into Huge large debt on there watch?
Bush 1
Obama...well he never had a surplus ...see above

Massive bank Bail outs under there watch..
Bush 1...no strings, no idea who got what, nothing....
Obama Zero

Bail outs of US Auto Industry....
Bush zero,,,,
Obama 1...with real strings to try make sure we are not back doing it 10 years from now...where I suggest the banks we cant say the same thing,

Patriot acts signed...leading to oversteping legal powers over american citizens
Obama zero
Bush 1

Giant Disasters that killed over a 1000...that where soooo poorly handled and while people where still dieing and stranded with no help...Praising FEMA for its crappy job days later when took notice that a event happened?
Bush 1
Obama Zero

yes just alot of the same....outside the very large differance.....

 

[Andy]

Yep Obama is making all the same choices as Bush did....Yet Republicans voted Bush into office 2 times, and Act like Obama is the antichrist...odd how that works...

Yes the same choices, only worse. Bush over spent big time, was in favor of larger government, and more government control. Obama is all that, only twice as bad. So please, bring back Bush.

Wars Obama has started? 0
Bush 1 ( afghanistan we did not start and I fully supported from the start to the end)

I was, and am still in favor of the war. We need to win, or pull out.

Obama is doing the worst possible choice. If we simply pulled out, and accepted defeat, at least we'd stop losing soldiers. If we went in full force, with enough troops to wipe out the combatants, we'd win and stop losing soldiers.

Instead, Obama is following the LBJ system of trying to put just enough soldiers in to get a bunch killed, without ever losing or winning. Basically, Obama is trying to re-enact the Vietnam war. Micromanaging, and rules of engagement, that will result in no final outcome, accept a lot of deaths.

Illegal camps to put people with no trial, charges, POW Status, Legal Help....
Obama 0
Bush at least one

What, did you miss the memo? Gitmo is still open, and Obama's legal team has affirmed the right of the administration to hold people indefinitely.

Three administration officials familiar with the process said the detention task force, which is jointly run by aides to Attorney General Eric Holder and Defense Secretary Robert Gates, did agree that the Obama administration should continue to claim the right to hold some Guantánamo inmates indefinitely as "combatants" under the "laws of war," without charging them either in criminal courts or in military commissions. That proposal is sure to prove controversial among human-rights groups, which say any such "indefinite detention" violates civil liberties and is virtually indistinguishable from legal claims made by President Bush.
But the officials say that, as much as the concept of indefinite detention is distasteful to the president and his legal advisers, there is simply no alternative for dealing with potentially dozens of detainees whom the administration doesn't want to release because they are thought to be too dangerous, but can't bring to trial for lack of evidence.

Nothing has changed. Not one thing. Obama has followed Bush in lock step.

Now in this case, I don't have a problem with this. But you claim to. So why are you being such a pathetic hypocrite? Why is it, that when Bush does it, that's bad... but if Obama does it... HOPE! CHANGE! It's all good?

Major attempts to reform horrible Health Care system?
Bush Zero
Obama 1 so far

That's a plus for Bush, not Obama.

Budget Surpluses turned into Huge large debt on there watch?
Bush 1
Obama...well he never had a surplus ...see above

There was no surplus. Go look up the national debt during the "surplus" years. Do debts increase if you have a surplus? Well I suppose if you are too stupid to use a calculator, you might think so.

Massive bank Bail outs under there watch..
Bush 1...no strings, no idea who got what, nothing....
Obama Zero

What are you talking about? Obama voted for the bank bailout. That about as retarded as saying "I had nothing to do with my budding driving drunk and killing people on the road. I only bought him the beers and gave him his keys, and walked him to the car".

Obama supported, voted for, helped pass the bank bailout. And on top of that sparky, more than half of the TARP funds were still locked up in the Federal Reserve when Obama got into office. Did he stop the rest of it? He could have very easily, yet he didn't. Instead he gave it all out just like Bush.

So how is Obama any different? Zero. That's how different.

Bail outs of US Auto Industry....
Bush zero,,,,
Obama 1...with real strings to try make sure we are not back doing it 10 years from now...where I suggest the banks we cant say the same thing,

Uh yeah. That's a plus for Bush, and a negative for Obama. You really don't get what that auto bailout did, do you? Here's a hint....

March of 2009. GM receives $13.4 Billion dollars, and requests an additional $16.6 Billion.
June of 2009. GM declares bankruptcy. Huh? Where did our $30 Billion go?
October of 2009. GM requests a third bailout of $5.6 Billion.

This is a good idea in your screwed up world? By what logic? You, or I should say, people of your side, have injected nearly $36 Billion into these super wealthy mega rich CEOs and board of directors, all of whom are more than happy to keep screwing up and asking for more money.

I'll take Bush over this crap any day.

Patriot acts signed...leading to oversteping legal powers over american citizens
Obama zero
Bush 1

Obama supported the Patriot act before, and he is doing so again.

The Obama administration promised Congress on Tuesday to negotiate stronger privacy protections for Americans under terrorism surveillance but insisted on retaining current authority to track suspects and obtain records.

Committee Chairman John Conyers, D-Mich., even compared the Obama administration's position so far to that of the Bush administration.

"You sound like a lot of people who came over from DOJ (the Department of Justice) before," Conyers told Todd Hinnen, deputy assistant attorney general.

Now again, I don't have a problem with this, but you claim to. So why are you being such a pathetic hypocrite? Obama is following Bush in lock step, yet when Bush did it, oh that's awful, but when Obama does it, Yay! How wonderful! Hope and Change! He cares!

Giant Disasters that killed over a 1000...that where soooo poorly handled and while people where still dieing and stranded with no help...Praising FEMA for its crappy job days later when took notice that a event happened?
Bush 1
Obama Zero

Yeah, now list off all the "Giant Disasters" where FEMA has been out to show how much more efficient they are under Obama? Zero.

Based on that, how useful is your sad comparison? Zero.
So how many points have you made from this garbage? Zero.
Fact is, FEMA has sucked since they were created. A better question is, since FEMA is always mismanaged and inefficient, why do you want the same group of idiots in charge of your health care?

yes just alot of the same....outside the very large differance.....

Yes just completely the same, outside of pretending they are very different.