California Proposition 8

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Help me out.

How did it get to be learned originally?

All you have done is describe natural acts.

And most paedophiles are heterosexual.
 
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VYO I am not sure that that explains if or how homosexuality is 'learned'

That's true. It describes the process - the actual specific behavioral stimuli that result in the development of homosexuality are, at present, a mystery.
 
Sihouette;80312]Where homosexuality is learned from is a complicated question. There are many factors. I will tell you what I personally have observed working with herds of animals and from reading literature on the matter.

OMG again... herds of animals. You can't really, seriously, by any stretch of your imagination put human being's brain functions and emotional feelings on the same plane as a horse... you just can't possibly be that out of touch.

Horses don't look for common interests in another horse. They don't feel the complex emotional feelings of a human being.

Horses breed when in heat. Humans beings just simply do not have sex this way. Do you go into heat and that's when you have sex?:eek: Of course not!

Let's just chalk it up that you're paranoid of gay people and just leave it at that because all this BS you're posting about animals is really, really tired.

But back to the real subject in the real world I had a very interesting and topical experience just this New Years Day.

Wife and I went to a nice restaurant and the young man that waited on us was no doubt gay. And he was just a great guy. Upbeat, friendly, very personable, checked on us several times, never had time to want for anything, could not have been more pleasent...

and I remember thinking about you Siho and I thought... now I'm supposed to not want this person to be happy because????????????????

Live and let live.
 
OMG again... herds of animals. You can't really, seriously, by any stretch of your imagination put human being's brain functions and emotional feelings on the same plane as a horse... you just can't possibly be that out of touch.~Topgun
Here's some reading for you Topgun. It is by no means exhaustive as to the nature of our being animals and subject to animal drives, but it gives a basic introduction..:

Complete scientific classification


The complete scientific classification of the modern human consists of many sub- and super- sections to the basic chart:

Eukaryota (Domain)

Animalia (Kingdom)

Eumetazoa (Subregnum)

Bilateria [having bilateral symmetery)

Deuterostomia (Superphylum)

Chordate (Phylum)

Craniata [animals with skulls]

Vertebrata (Subphylum) [...and backbones]

Gnathostomata (Infraphylum) [...and jaws]

Teleostomi [advanced fish and decendants]

Tetrapoda (Superclass) [...and four legs]

Amniota (Series) [...and amniotic eggs]

Synapsida [mammal-like reptiles]

Mammaliaformes

Mammalia (Class) [all mammals]

Eutheria (Subclass)

Euarchontoglires (Superorder)

Euarchonta (Superorder)

Primates (Order)

Haplorrhini (Suborder)

Simiiformes (Infraorder)

Catarrhini (Parvorder)

Hominoidea (Superfamily)

Hominidae (Family)

Homininae (Subfamily)

Hominini (Tribe)

Hominina (Subtribe)

Homo (Genus)

Homo Sapiens (Species)

Homo Sapiens Sapiens (Subspecies)
Humans, or human beings, are bipedal primates belonging to the mammalian species Homo sapiens (Latin for "wise man" or "knowing man") under the family Hominidae (the great apes). Humans have a highly developed brain capable of abstract reasoning, language and introspection. This, combined with an erect body carriage that frees their upper limbs for manipulating objects, has allowed humans to make greater use of tools than any other species.

Like most primates, humans are by nature social. However, humans are particularly adept at utilizing systems of communication for self-expression and the exchange of ideas. Humans create complex social structures composed of co-operating and competing groups, ranging in scale from nations to individual families, and social interaction between humans has established a variety of traditions, rituals, ethics, values, social norms, and laws which form the basis of human society. Humans also have a marked appreciation for beauty and aesthetics which, combined with the human desire for self-expression, has led to cultural innovations such as art, literature and music.

Humans are also noted for their desire to understand and influence the world around them, seeking to explain and manipulate natural phenomena through science, religion, philosophy and mythology. This natural curiosity has led to the development of advanced tools and skills; humans are the only known species to build fires, cook their food, clothe themselves, and use numerous other technologies.

Human body types vary substantially. Although body size is largely determined by genes, it is also significantly influenced by environmental factors such as diet and exercise. The average height of a North American adult female is 162 centimetres (5 feet 4 inches), and the average weight is 62 kilograms (137 pounds). Human males are typically larger than females: the average height and weight of a North American adult male is 175 centimeters (5 feet 9 inches) and 78 kilograms (172 pounds).

Humans are capable of fully bipedal locomotion, thus leaving their arms available for manipulating objects using their hands, aided especially by opposable thumbs. Because human physiology has not fully adapted to bipedalism, the pelvic region and vertebral column tend to become worn, creating locomotion difficulties in old age.

Although humans appear relatively hairless compared to other primates, with notable hair growth occurring chiefly on the top of the head, underarms and pubic area, the average human has more hair on his or her body than the average chimpanzee. The main distinction is that human hairs are shorter, finer, and less colored than the average chimpanzee's, thus making them harder to see...

..Humans are a eukaryotic species. Each diploid cell has two sets of 23 chromosomes, each set received from one parent. There are 22 pairs of autosomes and one pair of sex chromosomes. By present estimates, humans have approximately 20,000–25,000 genes and share 98.4% of their DNA with their closest living evolutionary relatives, the two species of chimpanzees.

Like other mammals, humans have an XY sex-determination system, so that females have the sex chromosomes XX and males have XY. The X chromosome is larger and carries many genes not on the Y chromosome, which means that recessive diseases associated with X-linked genes, such as hemophilia, affect men more often than women.

Life cycle

The human life cycle is similar to that of other placental mammals. New humans develop viviparously from conception. An egg is usually fertilized inside the female by sperm from the male through sexual intercourse, though the recent technology of in vitro fertilization is also occasionally used. The fertilized egg, called a zygote, divides inside the female's uterus to become an embryo, which over a period of thirty-eight weeks becomes a human fetus. At birth, the fully-grown fetus is expelled from the female's body and breathes independently as an infant for the first time. At this point, most modern cultures recognize the baby as a person entitled to the full protection of the law, though some jurisdictions extend personhood to human fetuses while they remain in the uterus...

..The closest living relatives of Homo sapiens are the Common Chimpanzee and the Bonobo. Full genome sequencing resulted in the conclusion that "After 6.5 [million] years of separate evolution, the differences between chimpanzee and human are just 10 times greater than those between two unrelated people and 10 times less than those between rats and mice." In fact, chimpanzee and human DNA is 96% identical. It has been estimated that the human lineage diverged from that of chimpanzees about five million years ago, and from gorillas about eight million years ago. However, a hominid skull discovered in Chad in 2001, classified as Sahelanthropus tchadensis, is approximately seven million years old, which may indicate an earlier divergence...

...Human evolution is characterized by a number of important physiological trends, including the expansion of the brain cavity and brain itself, which is typically 1,400 cm³ in volume, over twice that of a chimpanzee or gorilla. The pattern of human postnatal brain growth differs from that of other apes (heterochrony), allowing for an extended period of social learning in juvenile humans. Physical anthropologists argue that a reorganization of the structure of the brain is more important than cranial expansion itself. Other significant evolutionary changes included a reduction of the canine tooth, development of bipedal locomotion, and the descent of the larynx and hyoid bone, making speech possible. How these trends are related and what their role is in the evolution of complex social organization and culture are matters of ongoing debate in the field of physical anthropology...

..The human ability to think abstractly may be unparalleled in the animal kingdom. Human beings are one of only six species to pass the mirror test - which tests whether an animal recognizes its reflection as an image of itself—along with chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, dolphins and pigeons. Human beings under the age of 2 typically fail this test. However, this may be a matter of degree rather than a sharp divide. Monkeys have been trained to apply abstract rules in tasks.

The brain perceives the external world through the senses, and each individual human is influenced greatly by his or her experiences, leading to subjective views of existence and the passage of time...

..Social psychology links sociology with psychology in their shared study of the nature and causes of human social behavior, with an emphasis on how people think towards each other and how they relate to each other. The behavior and mental processes of animals, both human and non-human, can be described through animal cognition, ethology, evolutionary psychology, and comparative psychology as well. :)
Source: http://www.solarnavigator.net/animal_kingdom/humans/humans.htm
The field of comparative psychology exists. I'm not the first to "dream it up"..lol...

Many of the human behaviors we understand today are a result of this field of study. There is a field called "anthropology" the study of smaller primates and great apes including us. You may have heard of it?
 
Here's some reading for you Topgun. It is by no means exhaustive as to the nature of our being animals and subject to animal drives, but it gives a basic introduction..:


The field of comparative psychology exists. I'm not the first to "dream it up"..lol...

Many of the human behaviors we understand today are a result of this field of study. There is a field called "anthropology" the study of smaller primates and great apes including us. You may have heard of it?

And what does any of that have to do with a human being... who doesn't go into heat... romancing, dating and having sex with someone of the same sex... NOTHING!

Now of course both mammals and heterosexual human beings produce offspring and there is some basic attraction mechanism to that (be it on a much more complex plane than with animals).

But that has NOTHING to do with homosexuals at all. Nothing.

And really an extremely variable amount to do even with heterosexuals. I've known many women that no matter how physically attracted wouldn't do a guy if he weren't at a certain social status or had a certain job or certain amount of money.

Everything you're trying to promote here really lends itself (be it slightly) to heterosexuals.

Live and let live... gays aren't hurting you in anyway... unless maybe you've had some bad gay lover experience you'd like to talk about. ;)
 
And what does any of that have to do with a human being... who doesn't go into heat~ Topgun
Wow, denial really isn't just a river in Egypt...
:rolleyes:

We are animals and we are subject to the same physiology as mammals. I for instance have fed two babies from my mammary glands, for about a year each. I always wondered why other animals had them too? :cool:

Here you go. Lap dancers, of all people, may show you up..

The findings of a recent study of lap dancers conducted at the University of New Mexico, Albuquerque presented some data that has lead many to believe that women go into estrus, a period of increased sexual arousal, each month.

When the scientists compared the earnings of dancers who were regularly taking hormone-based oral contraceptives with those who were not, both earned similar amounts of tips during non-fertile periods of their menstrual cycle.

However, when the naturally-cycling dancers entered their fertile ovulation periods, the data compiled in the study showed that they made an average of $15 an hour more than their non-ovulating colleagues.

Additionally, the study found that dancers who were currently menstruating earned an average of $15 an hour less than women elsewhere in their cycles.

The implications of the study's findings could be revolutionary. Most mammals go into estrus during fertile periods and communicate this to potential suitors by giving off clear signs, such as the yowling of a cat in heat or the swelling red buttocks of certain primates, but currently it is commonly accepted that humans do not have estrus cycles.

However, other studies seem to correlate the UNM findings, suggesting that whether consciously or not, women tend to dress more attractively during fertile periods and are more receptive to sexual advances during these times, further confirming the possible existence of human estrus.

The results of these studies seem to blur the lines between humans and other primates, opening up many lines of speculation. If human estrus exists, its signs are certainly relatively subtle compared to those of other primates. Nevertheless, if its existence can be proven and quantified, it may effectively unshroud at least a few of the many mysteries surrounding the human mating and dating process.

While it may be too much to ask for a man to be able to walk into a bar and simply pinpoint women who are yowling like cats in heat or sporting enlarged, reddened derrieres, being cued into whatever signposts human estrus provides would definitely provide a leg up to would-be lotharios on the prowl.

Conversely, women might do well to reconsider their actions at certain times knowing that their strong feelings of attraction may simply be their hormones talking, thereby thwarting those same lotharios.
Source: http://www.docshop.com/2008/02/04/fertility-and-finances-could-lap-dancers-confirm-human-estrus/

I knew a rounder who told me once that he could always tell what part of a cycle a woman was in by the length of time she maintained eye contact. He claimed about 90% success rate, evidenced by his apparent successes...

Giving someone "the eye" takes on new meaning.

I clearly am aware when I am ovulating or about to ovulate. I cannot get men off my mind, am noticably in a social mood more often, I tend to smile more and be "more outgoing". Men stare at me far more in this phase, I have a ruddy glow to my cheeks and walk more upright. I have genital swelling and my urine takes on a new smell. When I'm nearing my period, I want absolutely nothing to do with men sexually and rebuff any and all advances. I am more reclusive, moody and irritable. My face takes on a sallow and drawn appearance and dark circles appear under my eyes. Men almost competely ignore me at this time when it comes to flirting and trying to get eye contact.

Just like the critters. Any woman who tells you different is either so grossly unaware of her own body as to not qualify for studying, or is lying.

So the examples I gave of learned homosexuality in animals, including human animals, are applicable. Here they are again:

1. Frustration of the sexual drive/ inability to access the opposite gender, as is the case with my billy goat and the homosexual movement spawned in San Francisco from mostly-male community having no female access.

2. Learned-aversion to the opposite gender. As is the case with many homosexuals I've spoken with, particularly lesbians, but not always. And was almost the case with a stallion I worked with. In the case with transsexuals, learned-aversion explains rather nicely when applied to the transsexual's own gender...as is the case with Mare.

3. Early-imprinting via repetition. As is the case with association of sexual climax associated with a same gender partner who forces contact at an inappropriate and impressionable age.
 
Erroneous and irrelevant ... and another unprovoked ad hominem initiated from Segep sans relevant topical content. :rolleyes:

It is quite possible you are again projecting. :cool:

I think if you say "irrelevant" one more time I'm going to barf. No, wait...let me guess....irrelevant, right? :rolleyes:

You didn't used to be kinetic on another forum, did you? You have that same robotic, reflexive use of pet terms you seem to think you understand.




No, no stop. Allow me. Irrelevant.




Irrelevant


Irrelevant


Irrelevant


topical

topical

topical


erroneous

erroneous

erroneous

specious

specious

specious

projecting

projecting

projecting



funny how if you say a word enough times it becomes totally meaningless, doesn't it?




irrelevant, I know. :D
 
Wow, denial really isn't just a river in Egypt...

We are animals and we are subject to the same physiology as mammals. I for instance have fed two babies from my mammary glands, for about a year each. I always wondered why other animals had them too?

You should know by now Siho tap dancing is not your forte and I don't let you out of the box!;) Are you trying to sell that HUMAN BEINGS only have sex when they're in HEAT like an animal... that's a simple YES or NO?

That's a NO. So while there's no doubt that there are definite similarities between animals and people... sexual gratification is something interpreted differently in humans than in animals.

You're saying that humans have children much like many animals do and that's true... but that has absolutely nothing to do with homosexual preference. Human beings make sexual decisions not only based on reproduction but also pleasure... is this not true? Because I must be wanting to reproduce a whole lot if that's the case... and it certainly isn't!:D


Here you go. Lap dancers, of all people, may show you up..

I knew a rounder who told me once that he could always tell what part of a cycle a woman was in by the length of time she maintained eye contact. He claimed about 90% success rate, evidenced by his apparent successes...

Giving someone "the eye" takes on new meaning.

I clearly am aware when I am ovulating or about to ovulate. I cannot get men off my mind, am noticably in a social mood more often, I tend to smile more and be "more outgoing". Men stare at me far more in this phase, I have a ruddy glow to my cheeks and walk more upright. I have genital swelling and my urine takes on a new smell. When I'm nearing my period, I want absolutely nothing to do with men sexually and rebuff any and all advances. I am more reclusive, moody and irritable. My face takes on a sallow and drawn appearance and dark circles appear under my eyes. Men almost competely ignore me at this time when it comes to flirting and trying to get eye contact.

Just like the critters. Any woman who tells you different is either so grossly unaware of her own body as to not qualify for studying, or is lying.


More "critter" double talk!:D Let's try this again. We all know about ovulation but is that the only time men and women have sex? No it is not. Hence the difference between humans and animals is pronounced and quite different.

And again this has even less than nothing to do with anything homosexual because I'm pretty sure they Know they're not reproducing. They aren't an animal that's been tricked... they have HUMAN BRAINS that can muster COGNITIVE THINKING.

And the obvious of the obvious still remains that whether homosexuality is inbreed into some people just as some people are left handed or if it's learned through what is self perceived as a more joyful experience and/or lifestyle (leaving trauma out because that could also be an equal bad influence on heterosexuallity)...

it hurts nobody for any two adults to be in a loving monogamous relationship. That's just a bottom line truth you simply cannot find a way to snake around.

Withholding the right of a marriage contract is just simply just enforcing a/your prejudice.

Oh and to further hold your feet to the fire you never answered... If the word "marriage" is all you are worried about then you'd support all the same rights & responsibilities of marriage for gays if it were called something else... correct.

If not than it's really simply the attempt to limit someone else's commitment & happiness because the act of homosexuality goes on legally regardless.

 
Homophobes are just repressed homosexuals; and their lashing out at gays and lesbians is a form of overcompensation to sublimate their own doubts about their sexual orientation. Heterosexuals that are secure with their sexuality would not feel threatened by homosexuals. To paraphrase Shakespeare, they doth protest too much.
 
If I was a homosexual, I would still opposed gay marriage, just like Elton John does. I have had issues throughout life, and instead of thinking them "normal" I have instead undergone therapy to get to the bottom of them. If I was homosexual, I would submit to therapy or research my own inventories to discover the origin of that drive and try to understand it, to come to terms with it. But I certainly wouldn't foist it on the remainder of society by asking them to make my tweak "mainstream" so that future generations could "aspire" to my deviant condition..

It's like someone who developed a heart arrythmia from the measels in youth, and not being able to compete in sports therefore, trying to petition to have the measels vaccination removed from the list so more people would contract their condition, in order to feel like they had more company and to level the "playing field". To make heart arrythmias "mainstream" instead of just grieving their handicap, doing the best they can, wanting (and deserving) compassion for their condition, and wishing others would not have it. It's a form of gross immaturity to petition to bring others down to your level instead of accepting your lot and wishing better for others...

That is wholly selfish and lazy quite frankly. Homosexuals don't want to see the origins of why they learned to associate orgasm with the same gender. And it is perverse too, in that the smokescreen issue still hangs around why gays want their tweak to be mainstream in a matrix where primate modelling creates new realities in our social fabric? Again, why fix your own house when you can release termites in the neighborhood to bring everyone down to your level with so much less effort..

The answer is simple: recruitment drive spawned from denial, laziness, perversity or even avarice with some gays. Not one of those aspects should we allow to mold our society.
 
Silo and Chip, do you think that someone born hermaphrodite should be denied the right to marry?

I'll answer for Silo... haven't been following Chip on this.

They should NOT be able to marry ANYONE because they are not like her making them an obvious freak of nature and not worthy of happiness.

Silo will say keep them all in a barn with the other animals because every human thing is an animal thing... and besides that's all I know.

:eek:






STILL WAITING SILO...

And the obvious of the obvious still remains that whether homosexuality is inbreed into some people just as some people are left handed or if it's learned through what is self perceived as a more joyful experience and/or lifestyle (leaving trauma out because that could also be an equal bad influence on heterosexuallity)...

it hurts nobody for any two adults to be in a loving monogamous relationship. That's just a bottom line truth you simply cannot find a way to snake around.

Withholding the right of a marriage contract is just simply just enforcing a/your prejudice.

Oh and to further hold your feet to the fire you never answered... If the word "marriage" is all you are worried about then you'd support all the same rights & responsibilities of marriage for gays if it were called something else... correct.

If not than it's really simply the attempt to limit someone else's commitment & happiness because the act of homosexuality goes on legally regardless.

 
Silo and Chip, do you think that someone born hermaphrodite should be denied the right to marry?~dawk

If hermaphrodites get married, technically, they will be marrying a member of the opposite gender no matter what. Think about it.

So they would not technically be in violation of the description: "between one man and one woman." Or more clearly: "between one person each of the opposite genders".

Additionally, as I've presented evidence to, homosexual-fixation is an acquired (not inborn) behavioral deviant fixation that has the potential to affect other generations exponentially via the primate-social-learning vehicle. To overtly allow anything that is deviant and is socially or environmentally learned to enter mainstream, is then therefore re-creating the reality of the human social fabric, pro whatever-the-deviance-is.

That's what we're trying to avoid. The majority of the voting public has decided not to allow homosexuality to become mainstream via condoning it through marriage. And we have that right to determine our own destiny by a majority rule. You may have heard of it before. It's called democracy.
 
Marriage is a man made definition, like all definitons.

Lots of them change.

The dfinition of marriage needs changing.

Simple.

You make the case well.
 
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Marriage is a man made definition, like all definitons.

Lots of them change.

The dfinition of marriage needs changing.

Simple.... ~Dawk
Exactly. It is a man made decision. And the decision was made, by the voting majority. Unless you think in our democracy that a minority should rule?
:rolleyes:

And you are ignoring one little eeetsy beetsy detail. That of primate social learning from norms, and the gay covert recruitment drive that is the actual thrust of the gay marriage plea. Why do they want to have the stamp of legitimacy on their already equal rights to survivorship and medical benefits? Because they're not going to be happy until we're all waving a rainbow flag above our front doors.

Did I mention that homosexuality is a learned deviant behavior from the natural purpose of sexuality to beget offspring? And that primates including humans are the paramount of mainstream-behavioral social learners in the animal kingdom? And that gay marriage is the attempt to make homosexuality mainstream?

It isn't hard dawk. Follow the breadcrumbs. You like to ignore them and play them down. Just pull the veil off and look at the mechanics of the fabric of society. You think it's just dandy to have homosexuality effectively "taught" (and imprinted) to youngsters of subsequent generations. However, the majority of the voting public has decided not to retool the fabric of society that way..
 
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