Breaking the shackles of faith

[jb_1430]

As I said in my original quote you still need the backing of the moneymen to get into power - no president has been elected who has not had the money there to campaign. This extends to religion as no out and out atheist has ever been president of the union - theist maybe, but never publically atheist.

Your an odd one. No Prime Minister has been elected "who has not had the money there to campaign." In Britain they can sell promises of Knighthood and seats in the house of Lords for campaign donations. So whats your point"?

We in the UK watch on in horror as the democrats meekly give in to their demands,

Sooooo what sentiments do you experience when Blair uses his Royal Perogative to go to war regardless of what the parliament or people think? What do you feel when the Parliament gives its blessing anyway?

As far as having a backbone regarding islamofascists is concerned we prefer to get on with in and do it quietly. We do not need a patriot act, or a big media circus to deal with the bigots who twist the quaran for their own ends.

If you have ever heard of Abu Hamza then you will know that we deal with them in a firm and strict matter.

Yemen indicted him Britain refused to extradite him. We in the US indicted him, Britain refussed to extradite him. He was allowed to preach in the largest mosque in Britain. And you dont need a Patriot act because the British government already had the same powers that our government only had after the patriot act.

This extends to religion as no out and out atheist has ever been president of the union - theist maybe, but never publically atheist.

I believe every Prime Minister has been a member of a national church. Whats your point?

The entire premise of this thread is a joke, ESPECIALLY coming from a brit. This crap about "1000 year reich' of christian oppression", "the citizens are like sheep" "comfortable in their own sty" "fascism"????? You have a freakin National Church with your queen at the head. She and the Prime minister appoint the Archbishops and Bishops. Every law of the church has to be approved by Parliament. Your up to your neck in shiite, criticizing the US for a little doggie doo on our shoe with the typical british snobbery that thinks your shiite dont stink. What a fu@king joke. MARK

 

[9sublime]

Your an odd one. No Prime Minister has been elected "who has not had the money there to campaign." In Britain they can sell promises of Knighthood and seats in the house of Lords for campaign donations. So whats your point"?

Thats a lie, maybe you should read the news you are talking about before you spout utter garbage. Since there were suspicions of 'cash for honours', several high power political figures, company bosses and 'well respected' people in the country have been arrested and questioned, including the Prime Minister.

The entire premise of this thread is a joke, ESPECIALLY coming from a brit. This crap about "1000 year reich' of christian oppression", "the citizens are like sheep" "comfortable in their own sty" "fascism"????? You have a freakin National Church with your queen at the head. She and the Prime minister appoint the Archbishops and Bishops. Every law of the church has to be approved by Parliament. Your up to your neck in shiite, criticizing the US for a little doggie doo on our shoe with the typical british snobbery that thinks your shiite dont stink. What a fu@king joke. MARK

You really seem to think Brits don't have the right to voice an opinion on anything do you? Or critize anything we do? Why, because we are all snob? If you want to take that stereotypical view, some people here share the view that all Americans are snobs in a different way, in that they believe their country has the right to do whatever it wants and so do they. I don't, because I know that not all Americans are the same.

You've got a chip on your shoulder, you need to get rid of it.

I don't like the queen, I want to see her abolished. But just because she is head of the church doesnt make anything facists.

 

[rejs7]

Don't hold your breath. I already asked her and she failed to produce.

Actualy I am chosing not to answer, because as has previously been pointed out the 1st ten ammendments are wide open to intepretation. A man of faith can be president, but a man can not be a president invoking faith - that is the point I really wanted to make.

For all the constenation that people have over atheism, one only has to look at the fact that prayers in schools are banned, and that religious people can not overtly promote religion in schools or through public office. America is the epitome of the idea that a man can has his faith, but the state has to been utterly sanguine and ignorant of that faith.

The longer that Americans cling to the notion that they are god own country, the longer it will take for them to slip the chattles of ignorance.

 

[jb_1430]

You really seem to think Brits don't have the right to voice an opinion on anything do you? Or critize anything we do? Why, because we are all snob?

Voice your opinions all you like. When it takes the form of criticism of the US, on subjects where the criticism IS EVEN more warranted in your own country, Im going to point it out. Went thru the same thing on another group with another brit. First he criticised the US because our economy was going into the toilet. I provided the statistics that showed that the US actually had a HIGHER, GDP per capita, HIGHER growth of GDP, HIGHER average income, HIGHER median income and LOWER unemployment. Then he claimed the US was so far in debt that foriegn countries owned the US, so I provided the statistics that show that while the US owes about 77% of one years GDP to foreign sources, Britain owes about FOUR TIMES one years GDP to foreign sources.
Having been shown to be a fool in regards to economic matters he tried to portray the US as rampant with violent crime until I showed him the statistics that in fact Britain has a HIGHER rate of violent crime. His criticisms were based upon nothing more that his british snobbery that thinks his shiit dont stink, because he was WRONG in every instance. For a brit to criticise America for a lack of separation of Church and state IS EVEN MORE of a joke than the economic matters. MARK

 

[jpn of Seattle]

This country is soaked in religion. Harry Truman once observed that to be successful in American politics you need to pour religion on your politics like ketchup on food.

Religion is everywhere in America. Few ever question it publically. If a politician says they're an atheist, their political career is over.

But the minute someone says, "hey, I don't want little Suzy being taught someone else's religion in school" my God, the religious right is tearing their hair and rending their clothes about how persecuted they are.

Religion is something that many, perhaps most people need for some reason. I've never understood it. It seems so obvious that people believe whatever they were taught as kids. If you were born in the US probably you were taught Christianity. If you were born in India probably you were taught Hinduism. If you were born in Pakistan probably you were taught Islam. And yet each thinks they have a lock on the "truth."
What nonsense.

Personally I am embarrassed to think that three of the GOP presidential candidates don't believe in evolution. My God...

 

[jb_1430]

Actualy I am chosing not to answer, because as has previously been pointed out the 1st ten ammendments are wide open to intepretation. A man of faith can be president, but a man can not be a president invoking faith - that is the point I really wanted to make.

Pretty tortured interpretation of-

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

to conclude that this means a President cant invoke faith. First President of the United states took it upon himself to improvise his oath of office by adding "so help me God" to the oath, invoking his faith in God. Its not only allowed, its a longstanding tradition. MARK

 

[rejs7]

Pretty tortured interpretation of-



to conclude that this means a President cant invoke faith. First President of the United states took it upon himself to improvise his oath of office by adding "so help me God" to the oath, invoking his faith in God. Its not only allowed, its a longstanding tradition. MARK

Hense why I argued that you need to break the shackles of faith - it enslaves you, and makes for a highly irrational political elite. At least here in the UK we have the decency to keep personal faith seperate from acts of state - Tony Blair and his cabinet all have their own faiths in private, but very rarely let it interfere with good governance.

 

[9sublime]

This country is soaked in religion. Harry Truman once observed that to be successful in American politics you need to pour religion on your politics like ketchup on food.

Religion is everywhere in America. Few ever question it publically. If a politician says they're an atheist, their political career is over.

But the minute someone says, "hey, I don't want little Suzy being taught someone else's religion in school" my God, the religious right is tearing their hair and rending their clothes about how persecuted they are.

Religion is something that many, perhaps most people need for some reason. I've never understood it. It seems so obvious that people beleive whatever they were taught as kids. If you were born in the US probably you were taught Christianity. If you were born in India probably you were taught Hinduism. If you were taught in Pakistan probably you were taught Islam. And yet each thinks they have a lock on the "truth."
What nonsense.

Personally I am embarrassed to think that three of the GOP presidential candidates don't believe in evolution. My God...

This sums it all up. People believe whatever is spoonfed to them and are then absoloutley adamant its the truth. Funny that everyone thinks their right.

 

[vyo476]

This country is soaked in religion. Harry Truman once observed that to be successful in American politics you need to pour religion on your politics like ketchup on food.

Religion is everywhere in America. Few ever question it publically. If a politician says they're an atheist, their political career is over.

But the minute someone says, "hey, I don't want little Suzy being taught someone else's religion in school" my God, the religious right is tearing their hair and rending their clothes about how persecuted they are.

Religion is something that many, perhaps most people need for some reason. I've never understood it. It seems so obvious that people believe whatever they were taught as kids. If you were born in the US probably you were taught Christianity. If you were born in India probably you were taught Hinduism. If you were born in Pakistan probably you were taught Islam. And yet each thinks they have a lock on the "truth."
What nonsense.

Personally I am embarrassed to think that three of the GOP presidential candidates don't believe in evolution. My God...

Here's a man with his firmly attached. Welcome to House of Politics, I have a feeling that you're going to be a breath of fresh air around here.

 

[Justinian]

Hmm

Men like you do not make history - rather they follow meekly as their leaders beckon with false hope and false promise. There is no god in heven, just as there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You are like a bull with a ring through his nose - angry, bitter, and frustrated as you watch me wander pass along my avenues of free thought.

NO, don't think you are anyone of authority to argue there is no God (like you could possibly understand such a concept) and don't think you know me well enough to call me a fool because you haven't the faintest idea who you're typing to. You're not acquainted with the truth and like Sublime, you're just another cowardly fool. Perhaps you don't think you are because you were born and raised in a secular, anti-christian, anti-national environment and think the world should be run according to your ignorant, brainwashed self. Or maybe you were just born with lousy parent/s and can't comprehend the concept of nationalism or societal greatness. Don't think I don't understand you and your kind. I understand you better than you could possibly comprehend. You think I sit at my computer all day making up BS and don't debate and understand people!?! I understand you and I understand what created you just as I understand what created me.You and your fellow disilussioned,shallow, ignorant, indoctrinated nobodys live in your own world made by the architects like me who understand and create it. The very idea you could possibly beg to lecture me on concepts like freedom, nationalism, war and the way to live has only been encouraged by the lazy cowardice slime you've been convinced to embrace.You are not acquainted with truth. You only think you are and are ignorant to think I represent one narrow-minded bracket on the political spectrum when it is you who are the ignorant narrowminded mouth-piece who isn't worthy to even discuss politics with me. Until you pick up a weapon and begin to live the american way of life and fight for it, you haven't the understanding or qualifications to even adress ME about politics. You are a child not acquainted with the truth.

 

[baldar]

This sums it all up. People believe whatever is spoonfed to them and are then absoloutley adamant its the truth. Funny that everyone thinks their right.

Unlike some, I do not believe people are necessarily stupid by and large. Were it so, then people would not switch churches, jews would not become christians, christiansin would not become muslims and jews and those arguing their point of view here would not have rejected the religion of their fathers.

People come to their own conclusions, and while some do indeed follow the precepts of their fathers, it doesn't mean the majority haven't come to their own conclusions. In fact, it is elitist arrogance to believe that simply because you have rejected your fathers belief system you somehow "know the truth" when in fact you you have done is really reject your fathers belief and taken one on your own.

I am curious though, which GOP leaders rejected evolution? In my view, it is the best theory we have, so far.

 

[baldar]

OK I looked it up. Three minor GOP candidates Tancredo, Brownback, and Huckabee. Funny how the others do believe in evolution including the GOP frontrunners. I take it that while these people will never be elected to presidential office, criticism of three minor members of a party is somehow to show what? That the GOP isn't monolithic in thought or ideas? (ok I agree). That the GOP has room in its tent for people of religious faith? (ok I agree). Or perhaps that we should somehow be intolerant of people who are of different faiths? With that I will disagree.

 

[jb_1430]

Hense why I argued that you need to break the shackles of faith - it enslaves you, and makes for a highly irrational political elite. At least here in the UK we have the decency to keep personal faith seperate from acts of state - Tony Blair and his cabinet all have their own faiths in private, but very rarely let it interfere with good governance.

Are you freakin high!!!! Your Parliament approves or disapproves CHURCH LAW! Blair and the queen appoint the heads of the Church. You criticise the US because the US president is FREE to add "so help me God" to his oath, IF HE CHOOSES to do so. While in Britain it is REQUIRED BY LAW for the Prime Minister and all officials to declare

I, NAME, do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

Here in America such a requirement would be un Constitutional.

Article VI .....no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States

I guess you dont mind Blair invoking faith when he is required to do so by law, because he probably doesnt mean it and is just doing so because he has to do so. But when Bush CHOOSES to do so it must be because he genuinely believes. Freakin amazing! MARK

 

[baldar]

Faith doesn't make you irrational, anymore than expecting the sun to rise and not go NOVA tomorrow makes you irrational. Faith is little more than an expectation or an assumption. We experience it to varying degrees in everything we do.

 

[jb_1430]

This sums it all up. People believe whatever is spoonfed to them and are then absoloutley adamant its the truth. Funny that everyone thinks their right.

I was spoonfed Christianity. I was a Christian in my teen years. Became an atheist without being spoonfed anything. I think I'm right. I also believe that what I think, or what Bush thinks is irrelevant according to the law. MARK