Annie "Bones"; Un-Wired

[Andy]

God wishes it, but that's not good enough for you despite the fact that what is in the Bible is God's Word kept pure down through the ages? Okay, pretty handy too.

What G-d wishes is what he calls us to do. Some he wishes that, and some he wishes something else. Just as I said. What he wishes is good enough for me, yes.

You said that, not the Bible. In your last post:

Does the Bible not literally say "Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." 1 Cor 7:1 ? I believe that.

Always easy to blame someone else--"the Devil made me do it", right? At least I have the integrity to take responsibility for my own actions.

None of the actions you referred to are my actions.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

It's also a description of people who read into text what isn't there.

And the site I posted with only 408 contradictions are not significant. Okay, pretty handy. Here's another question you won't choose to answer: if it's the literal Word of God kept pure down through the ages, then which version is the correct one? King James (but he was a homosexual!), the Joseph Smith Inspired Bible? The Reader's Digest Condensed Bible (they only left out the unimportant parts), the Unisex Bible, the Red-Letter Bible? The Codex Sinaiticus? What about the Catholic Bible? What about all the books that were voted out of the Bible by the Council of Nicea?

The Council of Nicea only confirmed the books already considered G-d inspired, and rejected those books already considered uninspired. The canonizations process was well documented.

As for the various translations, they are translations. The direct copies are protected by G-d. The dead sea scrolls, for example, match perfectly to the copies of the Hebrew and Aramaic we have today.

As for specific translations, if a question of meaning comes up, you should consult with the meaning of the words they were translated from. From there consistent understanding of the text can be determined.

As for how various translations match up, nearly all are fairly consistent. Like this page which compares different translations. There are a few that change the meaning, and are generally out of favor for that.

Oh, it gets better than that, both of my brothers have found Jesus (I never lost Him) and they each believe that the other is wrong, but along comes me with a birth defect that unites them in a chorus of condemnation. I hope you guys can get together in Heaven and go bowling.

So you can point to a time in your life, where you said that you would surrender everything to G-d, including your sexual conduct? A turning point where you were living for what you wanted, and then started living for what G-d wanted?

There are a bunch of your "brothers" (including one of mine) that say you are wrong in this.

I follow what G-d's word says. What man says doesn't matter much to me. They should do the same, but it's not my job to correct them.

God wishes you to remain celibate and use all your energy--like Paul--in worshipping Him.

I'll let him tell me that. And if so, then I will.

Hey, you are the one who was going to give all his stuff to one person and make them rich so that they had to give it all back.

You are reading into what I said now. I didn't say that I would do that specifically so that they'd give it back. I said that if your twisting of the text meant that, then by doing it that way, automatically I'd be poor and they'd be rich, and according to your twisted version, they'd have to give it all back, and then the cycle would repeat.

Complaining? No, no, I'm "helping" you because you don't understand the Bible and you obviously are backslidden.

No, I understand it just fine. Thanks for trying to help, but I've got it down.

Jesus was a socialist, it's right there in the Bible about wealth distribution and rich people, camels, and eyes of needles.

Again, you don't seem to know the context of the verse in question. First, yes we are supposed to use our wealth to help those that have less than us. However, each and every time, Jesus was against it being forced. No one was ever forced to give money to anyone. And he was against rulers forcing it. He even mocked that Gentile Kings claim to be the benefactors of the people.

Socialism requires government forced redistribution of wealth. Jesus never supported that.

Second, in the Jewish orthodoxy of the day, the religious leaders had morphed the idea of wealth into a gateway of Heaven. As if by having wealth one would be promised eternity. When Jesus said it is harder for a rich man to get to heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle, the disciples responded "then who can be saved?". Seem like a stupid question, until you understand the context.

So the key is his second answer. With man it is impossible. With G-d, all things are possible. Even for a rich man to get to Heaven. Of course, this had nothing to do with socialism.

Your bland assumption that I do not--based solely on the fact that I disagree with you seems really arrogant.

You do not, because you do not. You disagree not with me, but with the Bible. Your twisting and distorting of verses, has led you to build a wall around your theology that prevents the truth from being learned.

And the Bible is such a large work, by so many people, with so many versions, that with care on can justify almost anything with it: slavery, subjuagtion of women, genocide, murder, rape, kidnapping, and hatred.

Not if they read it for what it is, instead of putting their own personal spin on it. The KKK does this. The cults do this. And you are doing it.

Funny thing is that I'm on the receiving end and I feel like it's bashing. You know that the people who ran the Inquisition believed that they too were doing God's work, so did the Crusaders, so does the KKK today, and you're right and all the other's are wrong?

Yes, I am. I can show, and have shown KKK members their twisting of the Bible. Oddly they were more receptive to seeing their error than you. The crusader of course are long dead, but I can show the error of the Catholic church, right from the Bible.

Honestly, most people living in sin, feel like that being pointed out to them, is bashing. However, a mother may smack the hands of a child trying to take something that isn't there, but she isn't bashing them, she's teaching them that they are making a mistake, left uncorrected will negative consequences.

A book says it's wrong, there has yet to be a proven connection between God and ANY religion. You have no proof, the Muslims have no proof--Hell, there's not even any proof that a man named Jesus ever did all the things in the Bible.

Why was he crucified? Why did the apostles all die horrible deaths for something they knew was a lie? Why were the guards at his tomb paid off? Why was the early church willing to be eaten by lions at the roman colosseum instead of admitting there was no man, or that he wasn't G-d? And I still suggest the undeniable fulfillment of the prophecies are good evidence.

You get to uphold what you see as God's laws in your life, but when you use force to make other people uphold what you think God's laws are, then you have to be judging them and finding them wanting.

I'm not forcing anyone to do what I know is G-d's law. You don't have to get married, nor do I go around forcing you to be with a man. But I will always support G-d defined marriage. Otherwise, it's your choice.

I have asked you repeatedly without response why you are posting on threads about gay and transpeople since you feel them to be evil or somesuch? You aren't here to offer compassion and mercy, you haven't said a compassionate or merciful thing yet. Why are you here if not to give us grief?

You still don't know? Then I will no longer answer this question. It has been answered many times.

How could my view of my life not be one-sided? Beyond decrying the huge amount of grief and misery visited on us by Christians I have said nothing about how anyone else should live their life--but you can't do that for some reason. Why? God gave us our lives, can't you wait for Him to judge us before you bash us with your "help"?

If you son was going to drive a car off a cliff, would you not warn him? Would you be bashing him by saying he shouldn't do that?

God can see into my heart and He knows what lies there, that's good enough for me. Too bad it's not good enough for you.

Yes, he does see what is there. And you will answer for it. As I will answer for what I've done too. If you truly believe you are in the right, and I am in the wrong, why are you here? You know full well that I will not change my loyalty to G-d ever. No amount of words will changes this. Nor will I not post what I know is right. Not ever.

So why are you here? If you are correct, and all that stuff about the natural sexual nature is wrong, then when we stand at judgement, you will be rewarded, and me punished. If so, why are you wasting your time at this thread attacking my faith?

Perhaps you should think about that, because you will never make me second guess. There is no shadow of doubt. I have met the risen savor, the one true G-d, and I could no more deny him than deny you exist. Nor will I ever change my mind on this matter.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Part I

What G-d wishes is what he calls us to do. Some he wishes that, and some he wishes something else. Just as I said. What he wishes is good enough for me, yes.

So it IS possible that God might call someone to do something different than you are called to do? Is it possible that God might call someone to do something that you don't understand? Something that YOU don't agree with? Something that YOU think is evil? Or do you know so much about God and His laws that you can judge the works of all people and say whether they are correct?

Does the Bible not literally say "Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." 1 Cor 7:1 ? I believe that.

Does it say that it is not good for a man to touch a women? No it does not.

So, which is it? In your last two posts you have contradicted yourself.

The Council of Nicea only confirmed the books already considered G-d inspired, and rejected those books already considered uninspired. The canonizations process was well documented.

If it was already decided why did they have council? The truth is that there were terrible battles during the discussions about what was and wasn't to be put into the "official" version of the Bible. A good example of that is the Codex Sinaiticus which is the oldest current complete copy of the Old and New Testament, it's quite different from what we have now as the "official" version. A good book on this subject is THE SECRETS OF MT. SINAI (unfortunately out of print and hard to find) but you can go on Amazon and find books about the Codex.

As for the various translations, they are translations. The direct copies are protected by G-d. The dead sea scrolls, for example, match perfectly to the copies of the Hebrew and Aramaic we have today.

Where do you get these ideas?

As for specific translations, if a question of meaning comes up, you should consult with the meaning of the words they were translated from. From there consistent understanding of the text can be determined.

As for how various translations match up, nearly all are fairly consistent. Like this page which compares different translations. There are a few that change the meaning, and are generally out of favor for that.

Wow, you really must have an interesting library.

So you can point to a time in your life, where you said that you would surrender everything to G-d, including your sexual conduct? A turning point where you were living for what you wanted, and then started living for what G-d wanted?

I have been living my life by my lights since the age of differentiation, around 8-9 years old in my case.

I follow what G-d's word says. What man says doesn't matter much to me. They should do the same, but it's not my job to correct them.

Is it important to help pass laws to take away their right to choose even though they are hurting no one?

I'll let him tell me that. And if so, then I will.

He did, He had Paul say it in the Bible and He protected that statement of His wish for you all down through history so that you would get it now and heed His desire. It's right there in the Bible.

You are reading into what I said now. I didn't say that I would do that specifically so that they'd give it back. I said that if your twisting of the text meant that, then by doing it that way, automatically I'd be poor and they'd be rich, and according to your twisted version, they'd have to give it all back, and then the cycle would repeat.

The issue under discussion at this point was not your reason for giving it to him, but rather that you said he would then be rich after you had given him all your things--then you said you didn't have enough to be considered rich despite your previous claim. Get your story straight.

No, I understand it just fine. Thanks for trying to help, but I've got it down.

I know you think so, but God told me you were wrong, so before you drive off the cliff it's up to me to help you by telling you that you are deluded.

Again, you don't seem to know the context of the verse in question. First, yes we are supposed to use our wealth to help those that have less than us. However, each and every time, Jesus was against it being forced. No one was ever forced to give money to anyone. And he was against rulers forcing it. He even mocked that Gentile Kings claim to be the benefactors of the people.

Socialism requires government forced redistribution of wealth. Jesus never supported that.

No, Jesus hoped that you would do it voluntarily, but you need to remember that Jesus also said that you have to obey or you go to Hell (I'm paraphrasing here for clarity). If the threat of eternal damnation is not "force" then I don't know what is. You HAVE to obey or God will damn you, that's obviously force as much as gun to your head. Therefore, Jesus advocated socialism--government force or going-to-Hell force.

Second, in the Jewish orthodoxy of the day, the religious leaders had morphed the idea of wealth into a gateway of Heaven. As if by having wealth one would be promised eternity. When Jesus said it is harder for a rich man to get to heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle, the disciples responded "then who can be saved?". Seem like a stupid question, until you understand the context.

So the key is his second answer. With man it is impossible. With G-d, all things are possible. Even for a rich man to get to Heaven. Of course, this had nothing to do with socialism.

It's wonderful how you can justify anything with the Bible, from the Inquistion to the amassing of great wealth at the expense of your fellows. I love it.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Part II

You do not, because you do not. You disagree not with me, but with the Bible. Your twisting and distorting of verses, has led you to build a wall around your theology that prevents the truth from being learned.

The Bible is a book, it has some good stuff in it and some bad, just like almost all books. You have accepted with no shred of proof that the Bible is the Word of God. You and your ilk use it as a weapon, I object. Each person is their own monument to God, if we are all little ANDY clones then we are all Andy's monument to God.

Not if they read it for what it is, instead of putting their own personal spin on it. The KKK does this. The cults do this. And you are doing it.

But only YOU are not putting your spin on it? Does that seem a trifle arrogant? You are the measure of all mankind? Your perspective is what's right for all people? Hello? How humble is that?

Yes, I am. I can show, and have shown KKK members their twisting of the Bible. Oddly they were more receptive to seeing their error than you. The crusader of course are long dead, but I can show the error of the Catholic church, right from the Bible.

Okay, I'm a transsexual, show me in the Bible how my life is an example of twisting the Bible. Give me scriptures please.

Honestly, most people living in sin, feel like that being pointed out to them, is bashing. However, a mother may smack the hands of a child trying to take something that isn't there, but she isn't bashing them, she's teaching them that they are making a mistake, left uncorrected will negative consequences.

What amazes me is that you consider yourself in the position to be the mother of mankind and smack the hands of those who you think are doing wrong. Do you have any idea how many of you "muthas" there are in the Christian religion today? Both of my brothers feel exactly as you do, they have the same special dispensation from God to give Ultimate Truth to all people. The Pope believes he has the same right. Somebody's wrong--not you of course, it must be all the other people.

Why was he crucified? Why did the apostles all die horrible deaths for something they knew was a lie? Why were the guards at his tomb paid off? Why was the early church willing to be eaten by lions at the roman colosseum instead of admitting there was no man, or that he wasn't G-d? And I still suggest the undeniable fulfillment of the prophecies are good evidence.

There isn't any proof of most of the stuff you cited. Other religions previous to Christianity had all the same stories, you can find a dozen crucified saviors who died for our sins after being born of a virgin, in a stable, with wisemen (please note that the wisemen are not at the stable the night of Jesus' birth), a star in the heavens... and on and on. It's an old story.

Lots of people had been fed to lions in the circuses of Rome and that doesn't vindicate their religious beliefs in any way. It's baseless myth, you accept it and I respect your belief, but stop trying to tell me what to believe.

I'm not forcing anyone to do what I know is G-d's law. You don't have to get married, nor do I go around forcing you to be with a man. But I will always support G-d defined marriage. Otherwise, it's your choice.

You can support your version of marriage while allowing other people to support their version, can't you? If others sin, why is it up to you to pass laws to deny them?

You still don't know? Then I will no longer answer this question. It has been answered many times.

Beyond the "helping" I have not seen any reason for you to be here. Are these posts "helping"? Does your vote against equal legal rights count as "helping"? If the Muslims take over our country and pass laws to "help" you obey God's laws (as they see them) will that be considered "helping"? It looks to me as if you wish to "help" others but do not wish to be "helped" in the same way yourself--that seems to be a double standard, or it would be if you weren't God's Emissary on Earth, the Arbiter of Ultimate Truth, and the hand-smacking Mother to all humankind.

If you son was going to drive a car off a cliff, would you not warn him? Would you be bashing him by saying he shouldn't do that?

No, the bashing would be if I told him that I spoke for God and I passed laws against other adults having the same freedom to choose that I claimed for myself. You wish to make decisions for yourself, you demand that right, but also demand the right to deprive others of that right.

Yes, he does see what is there. And you will answer for it. As I will answer for what I've done too. If you truly believe you are in the right, and I am in the wrong, why are you here? You know full well that I will not change my loyalty to G-d ever. No amount of words will changes this. Nor will I not post what I know is right. Not ever.

I don't wish you to change your loyalty to what you believe is God, I want you to stop trying to tell me that you know better than I do what God wants me to do. Simple as that, give me the freedom that you currently enjoy. Live and let live.

So why are you here? If you are correct, and all that stuff about the natural sexual nature is wrong, then when we stand at judgement, you will be rewarded, and me punished. If so, why are you wasting your time at this thread attacking my faith?

Perhaps you should think about that, because you will never make me second guess. There is no shadow of doubt. I have met the risen savor, the one true G-d, and I could no more deny him than deny you exist. Nor will I ever change my mind on this matter.

I told you before that I am willing to accept the responsibility for my actions, I am glad for God to see what is in my heart.

Why am I on this thread? And on every other thread about homosexuals and transsexuals? Are you listening? I want the persecution in God's name to stop, I want the killings, the beatings, the rapes, the denial of equal rights, and the endless condemnation in God's name to stop. That's all, I just want what you already have, the right to live my life without self-righteous, self-satisfied, arrogant people telling us how God wants us to live our lives. They are our lives, God speaks to us just as He does to you.

I think it's great that people live by their own beliefs, but I will never condemn you in God's name, I will never bang on your door and tell you that your relationship with God is wrong or that I know better than you what God wants you to do. Why can't you give me the same consideration? Am I not a child of God no less than you?

 

[Andy]

So it IS possible that God might call someone to do something different than you are called to do? Is it possible that God might call someone to do something that you don't understand? Something that YOU don't agree with? Something that YOU think is evil? Or do you know so much about God and His laws that you can judge the works of all people and say whether they are correct?

If the word of G-d explicitly states something is evil or sinful, he will never call someone to do that thing. G-d never contradicts himself. Other than that, yes to all of those.

So, which is it? In your last two posts you have contradicted yourself.

No I did not. To be married and to not be married, are both good. The prior statement is not exclusive. It is possible for two things to be good, yes? It is possible for it to be good to not get married, and good to get married, yes? Or do you operate under the fallacy of Affirming a disjunct? If A is true, then B must be false?

If it was already decided why did they have council? The truth is that there were terrible battles during the discussions about what was and wasn't to be put into the "official" version of the Bible. A good example of that is the Codex Sinaiticus which is the oldest current complete copy of the Old and New Testament, it's quite different from what we have now as the "official" version. A good book on this subject is THE SECRETS OF MT. SINAI (unfortunately out of print and hard to find) but you can go on Amazon and find books about the Codex.

Actually it matches up very well. Most of the supposed alterations are either names of locations that are translated from Hebrew to Greek, or simply style differences common to Alexandrian manuscripts. I've heard this before too. Nothing to it.

Where do you get these ideas?

God affirms his protection in the Bible. As for the matching of the scrolls, I've done my homework on it.

I have been living my life by my lights since the age of differentiation, around 8-9 years old in my case.

And yet you do not follow the clearly written word. So who is really in control?

Is it important to help pass laws to take away their right to choose even though they are hurting no one?

It is important to support the law of G-d. That supersedes all.

The issue under discussion at this point was not your reason for giving it to him, but rather that you said he would then be rich after you had given him all your things--then you said you didn't have enough to be considered rich despite your previous claim. Get your story straight.

My story is straight thank you. If I gave all, would I not be poor?

I know you think so, but God told me you were wrong, so before you drive off the cliff it's up to me to help you by telling you that you are deluded.

Thank you but I can read my Bible, and I know I'm right. Can you?

No, Jesus hoped that you would do it voluntarily, but you need to remember that Jesus also said that you have to obey or you go to Hell (I'm paraphrasing here for clarity). If the threat of eternal damnation is not "force" then I don't know what is. You HAVE to obey or God will damn you, that's obviously force as much as gun to your head. Therefore, Jesus advocated socialism--government force or going-to-Hell force.

No, you are damned already. Until you accept the gift of salvation, G-d does not need to do anything, because you are condemned already.

It's wonderful how you can justify anything with the Bible, from the Inquistion to the amassing of great wealth at the expense of your fellows. I love it.

I said neither of those anywhere. Why do you read into what is written and consistently invent your own statements? This is called a straw-man.

 

[Andy]

Part II The Bible is a book, it has some good stuff in it and some bad, just like almost all books. You have accepted with no shred of proof that the Bible is the Word of God. You and your ilk use it as a weapon, I object. Each person is their own monument to God, if we are all little ANDY clones then we are all Andy's monument to God.

You are being judgmental. Why is it bad for others, and ok for you?

But only YOU are not putting your spin on it? Does that seem a trifle arrogant? You are the measure of all mankind? Your perspective is what's right for all people? Hello? How humble is that?

The Bible's word stands on it's own. I am merely repeating the word's G-d wrote.

Okay, I'm a transsexual, show me in the Bible how my life is an example of twisting the Bible. Give me scriptures please.

You posts are a twisting of the text. I cite every scripture you've listed in this thread thus far. Each one is example of twisting of G-d's word.

What amazes me is that you consider yourself in the position to be the mother of mankind and smack the hands of those who you think are doing wrong. Do you have any idea how many of you "muthas" there are in the Christian religion today? Both of my brothers feel exactly as you do, they have the same special dispensation from God to give Ultimate Truth to all people. The Pope believes he has the same right. Somebody's wrong--not you of course, it must be all the other people.

Yes, we are called to speak the truth, and reach out to all people that they can be saved. Personally I'd rather not do it. People do not like to be told they are going to hell, or that they are doing wrong. Nevertheless, we are called to do it, and thus we do.

There isn't any proof of most of the stuff you cited. Other religions previous to Christianity had all the same stories, you can find a dozen crucified saviors who died for our sins after being born of a virgin, in a stable, with wisemen (please note that the wisemen are not at the stable the night of Jesus' birth), a star in the heavens... and on and on. It's an old story.

Yes I am well aware the wisemen were not there. I'm curious if you can name one other crucified savior. But yeah, I do think 1000 year old prophecies being fulfilled even as we speak, is proof. You can deny it, fine. But the clear evidence is there.

Lots of people had been fed to lions in the circuses of Rome and that doesn't vindicate their religious beliefs in any way. It's baseless myth, you accept it and I respect your belief, but stop trying to tell me what to believe.

So to you, if the early church was told they can go free only by denying christ, and yet choose to face the lions instead, means nothing. I see. Well, yes I do believe it means something. People do not die for what they know is a lie. People do not die for a man that never existed, and never did anything.

You can support your version of marriage while allowing other people to support their version, can't you? If others sin, why is it up to you to pass laws to deny them?

It's not my version of marriage. It's G-d's version. If G-d tells you to support his law, do you ignore G-d, and say not my job to support what G-d says about marriage? I will not have a conversation in Heaven that starts off "So Andy, why didn't you do what I asked? Why didn't you support my word? Didn't I spell it all out for you?"

The answer is, I will support G-d's law till I die. Period.

Beyond the "helping" I have not seen any reason for you to be here. Are these posts "helping"? Does your vote against equal legal rights count as "helping"? If the Muslims take over our country and pass laws to "help" you obey God's laws (as they see them) will that be considered "helping"? It looks to me as if you wish to "help" others but do not wish to be "helped" in the same way yourself--that seems to be a double standard, or it would be if you weren't God's Emissary on Earth, the Arbiter of Ultimate Truth, and the hand-smacking Mother to all humankind.

Everyone has equal rights. You have an equal right to marry a member of the opposite sex, as I do. I have no right to marry someone of the same-sex, just like you. Neither of us have more or less rights than another.

We've had thousands of former homosexuals, repent and become men and women of G-d, that even travel across the country to reach out to others to give up their lifestyles and become followers of G-d. All of them have been helped. I support this ministry. They will be my brothers and sisters in Heaven as well.

No, the bashing would be if I told him that I spoke for God and I passed laws against other adults having the same freedom to choose that I claimed for myself. You wish to make decisions for yourself, you demand that right, but also demand the right to deprive others of that right.

Everyone has the right to marry a member of the opposite sex. No one is deprived.

I don't wish you to change your loyalty to what you believe is God, I want you to stop trying to tell me that you know better than I do what God wants me to do. Simple as that, give me the freedom that you currently enjoy. Live and let live.

I will follow and support G-d's law. This will not change.

Why am I on this thread? And on every other thread about homosexuals and transsexuals? Are you listening? I want the persecution in God's name to stop, I want the killings, the beatings, the rapes, the denial of equal rights, and the endless condemnation in God's name to stop. That's all, I just want what you already have, the right to live my life without self-righteous, self-satisfied, arrogant people telling us how God wants us to live our lives. They are our lives, God speaks to us just as He does to you.

You have equal rights. I promise I will not rape, beat, kill anyone. It's not your life, or mine. G-d created us. He owns us.

I think it's great that people live by their own beliefs, but I will never condemn you in God's name, I will never bang on your door and tell you that your relationship with God is wrong or that I know better than you what God wants you to do. Why can't you give me the same consideration? Am I not a child of God no less than you?

You have condemned me many times in this thread.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You are being judgmental. Why is it bad for others, and ok for you?

It's not my religion that commands me not to judge, it's your religion. I'm under no obligation to follow your religious tenets--Hell, even YOU don't follow them.

We are the ones being beaten and killed, that gives us the right to protest.

Yes I am well aware the wisemen were not there. I'm curious if you can name one other crucified savior. But yeah, I do think 1000 year old prophecies being fulfilled even as we speak, is proof. You can deny it, fine. But the clear evidence is there.

Yes, I can. Kersey Graves' book THE WORLD'S SIXTEEN CRUCIFIED SAVIORS. I could give you 10 more sources, but you won't even look at this one, so why should I bother?

So to you, if the early church was told they can go free only by denying christ, and yet choose to face the lions instead, means nothing. I see. Well, yes I do believe it means something. People do not die for what they know is a lie. People do not die for a man that never existed, and never did anything.

Of course they do! There are Muslims dying every single day for that very reason, aren't there? They believe at least as strongly as you do: "People do not die for what they know is a lie." There you have it in your own words.

I never said that they didn't believe it, lots of people believe the rules they live and die by, but that's no guarantee that those rules are correct--I'm willing to bet any reasonable amount of money that you don't think the Muslims dying for their beliefs makes those beliefs true, does it?

It's not my version of marriage. It's G-d's version. If G-d tells you to support his law, do you ignore G-d, and say not my job to support what G-d says about marriage? I will not have a conversation in Heaven that starts off "So Andy, why didn't you do what I asked? Why didn't you support my word? Didn't I spell it all out for you?" The answer is, I will support G-d's law till I die. Period.

God did spell it out, He wants you to remain celibate.

Everyone has equal rights. You have an equal right to marry a member of the opposite sex, as I do. I have no right to marry someone of the same-sex, just like you. Neither of us have more or less rights than another.

Yep, and that's the argument that Christians and racists use to deny people the right to interracial marriage: you have the same right to marry a person of your race as anyone else does, therefore there is no discrimination. Didn't work, in my lifetime that issue has disappeared off the Christian agenda--God changed His mind, I bet. Right? Bigots are predictable.

We've had thousands of former homosexuals, repent and become men and women of G-d, that even travel across the country to reach out to others to give up their lifestyles and become followers of G-d. All of them have been helped. I support this ministry. They will be my brothers and sisters in Heaven as well.

If you are a counselor, then you know that's not true, but maybe your counselor degree is from Whattsa Matta U. just Siho's biology degree.

Everyone has the right to marry a member of the opposite sex. No one is deprived.

You're repeating yourself. And it's still bigoted nonsense.

I will follow and support G-d's law. This will not change.
You have equal rights. I promise I will not rape, beat, kill anyone. It's not your life, or mine. G-d created us. He owns us.
You have condemned me many times in this thread.

I have condemned your actions but never have I claimed to be speaking for God, I always speak for myself. You condemn in God's name and therein lies the Judgment that your religion expressly tells you not to make.

I want the beatings, killings, and rapes to end. Great, you won't get your hands dirty, but you will hide in the voting booth and express your arrogant, self-righteous beliefs on others with the force of law. So that would make you a coward as well as a religious bigot?

Live your life, let others live theirs. Returning to my previous post:
You wish to make decisions for yourself, you demand that right, but also demand the right to deprive others of that right.

I don't wish you to change your loyalty to what you believe is God, I want you to stop trying to tell me that you know better than I do what God wants me to do. Simple as that, give me the freedom that you currently enjoy. Live and let live.

Are you listening? I want the persecution in God's name to stop, I want the killings, the beatings, the rapes, the denial of equal rights, and the endless condemnation in God's name to stop. That's all, I just want what you already have, the right to live my life without self-righteous, self-satisfied, arrogant people telling us how God wants us to live our lives. They are our lives, God speaks to us just as He does to you.

Why don't we deserve the same right to listen to what we think God is telling us?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

No I did not. To be married and to not be married, are both good. The prior statement is not exclusive. It is possible for two things to be good, yes? It is possible for it to be good to not get married, and good to get married, yes? Or do you operate under the fallacy of Affirming a disjunct? If A is true, then B must be false?

"It is good for a man not to touch a woman." 1 Cor 7:1

"Does it say that it is not good for a man to touch a women? No it does not."
The two quotes by you are contradictory. If you can't see that then you are not capable of carrying on a conversation, let alone be trusted to comment on the validity of Biblical research. Or you are lying.

 

[Andy]

"It is good for a man not to touch a woman." 1 Cor 7:1

"Does it say that it is not good for a man to touch a women? No it does not."
The two quotes by you are contradictory. If you can't see that then you are not capable of carrying on a conversation, let alone be trusted to comment on the validity of Biblical research. Or you are lying.

No, they are not. Read them straight. Does it say that it is NOT good to touch a women? No, it does not. If you read the other parts of the Bible, they make it clear marriage is a good thing. One does not exclude the other.

If you can't see that, then you are not capable of carrying on this conversation.

 

[Andy]

It's not my religion that commands me not to judge, it's your religion. I'm under no obligation to follow your religious tenets--Hell, even YOU don't follow them.

So you expect us to follow your personal views of a religion you don't follow. Sound hypocritical to me.

We are the ones being beaten and killed, that gives us the right to protest.

Christians are murdered for their faith every day. You have no lock on oppression.

Yes, I can. Kersey Graves' book THE WORLD'S SIXTEEN CRUCIFIED SAVIORS. I could give you 10 more sources, but you won't even look at this one, so why should I bother?

Yet you bothered. I'm humored by that.

Of course they do! There are Muslims dying every single day for that very reason, aren't there? They believe at least as strongly as you do: "People do not die for what they know is a lie." There you have it in your own words.

There's a huge difference. Mohammed never made the claims that Christ did. Why is this important? Because you can convince people of many things, even things they would die for.

But if Christ claimed to raise lazarus from the dead, and it didn't happen, all the apostles would have known that. No one dies for something they know is a lie.

I never said that they didn't believe it, lots of people believe the rules they live and die by, but that's no guarantee that those rules are correct--I'm willing to bet any reasonable amount of money that you don't think the Muslims dying for their beliefs makes those beliefs true, does it?

I know the Bible is correct.

God did spell it out, He wants you to remain celibate.

That's not what it says.

Yep, and that's the argument that Christians and racists use to deny people the right to interracial marriage: you have the same right to marry a person of your race as anyone else does, therefore there is no discrimination. Didn't work, in my lifetime that issue has disappeared off the Christian agenda--God changed His mind, I bet. Right? Bigots are predictable.

Difference is, marriage by race isn't in the Bible. Marriage to a member of the opposite sex, is.

If you are a counselor, then you know that's not true, but maybe your counselor degree is from Whattsa Matta U. just Siho's biology degree.

You read into my text constantly. I support the ministry. I am not a counselor. Nevertheless the people helped, are helped by the ministry.

You're repeating yourself. And it's still bigoted nonsense.

I could say the same for you.

I have condemned your actions but never have I claimed to be speaking for God, I always speak for myself. You condemn in God's name and therein lies the Judgment that your religion expressly tells you not to make.

Why should you not be condemned when you condemn others? Or does your (g)od support condemning people? In which case, wouldn't he be happy for me to condemn others?

I want the beatings, killings, and rapes to end. Great, you won't get your hands dirty, but you will hide in the voting booth and express your arrogant, self-righteous beliefs on others with the force of law. So that would make you a coward as well as a religious bigot?

Since it's not my views, but G-d's view, I'm not hiding anything, nor is it arrogance. I openly support my great G-d.

Live your life, let others live theirs. Returning to my previous post:
You wish to make decisions for yourself, you demand that right, but also demand the right to deprive others of that right.

I will always support G-d's law. That will never change.

I don't wish you to change your loyalty to what you believe is God, I want you to stop trying to tell me that you know better than I do what God wants me to do. Simple as that, give me the freedom that you currently enjoy. Live and let live.

You have the same freedom that I do. And i have no more freedom than you. We each have the right to marry a member of the opposite sex. Beyond that, I have no more right than you.

Are you listening? I want the persecution in God's name to stop, I want the killings, the beatings, the rapes, the denial of equal rights, and the endless condemnation in God's name to stop. That's all, I just want what you already have, the right to live my life without self-righteous, self-satisfied, arrogant people telling us how God wants us to live our lives. They are our lives, God speaks to us just as He does to you.

I have done none of those things. So we're agreed.

Why don't we deserve the same right to listen to what we think God is telling us?

You can listen to anything you want, that's fine.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You read into my text constantly. I support the ministry. I am not a counselor. Nevertheless the people helped, are helped by the ministry.

Siho ain't a biologist and you ain't a counselor--except in your own minds. You make a great pair. She trains animals to commit deviant sex acts (post #472 on the Prop 8 thread) and you're a Christian bonze of some sort.

When I run across people like you two I'm reminded of a post on another site:

Christianity: "The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was His own Father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat His flesh and telepathically tell Him you accept Him as your Master, so He can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree... yeah, makes perfect sense."

 

[Andy]

Siho ain't a biologist and you ain't a counselor--except in your own minds. You make a great pair. She trains animals to commit deviant sex acts (post #472 on the Prop 8 thread) and you're a Christian bonze of some sort.

I don't know or care who Siho is, and nor does it matter to me what you think. Plus, I never said I was a counselor. You can never respond to what is there, only what you invent. Straw-man arguments.

When I run across people like you two I'm reminded of a post on another site:

Christianity: "The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was His own Father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat His flesh and telepathically tell Him you accept Him as your Master, so He can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree... yeah, makes perfect sense."

[/QUOTE]

Thank you. The more I'm ridiculed for my faith, the more I know I'm on the right path.

 

[Greco]

Have you ever noticed that Ann Coulter looks just like David Bowie in drag, and they've never been seen together? Hmmm....

 

[Pandora]

Have you ever noticed that Ann Coulter looks just like David Bowie in drag, and they've never been seen together? Hmmm....

you know now that you mention it


but his teeth are like jagged or pointed, sharp even. hers are not and I think he is thinner and she is taller

 

[Greco]

Well of course she's taller. When David Bowie puts on his spike heels he shoots right up in height.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Have you ever noticed that Ann Coulter looks just like David Bowie in drag, and they've never been seen together? Hmmm....

....Except that he's got an (actual) history-of-success....and, her's is less-than-stellar.