80MM Hours - Obamacare - Death Panels are coming...

[dogtowner]

I read where health care costs have increased $3000 per family per yr. You can't have a "one size fits all" plan and not expect it to go up. The health care plan also didn't include any tort reform either.

if you take NO action to address the cost of health care you cannot be surprised that these costs continue to escalate. and just wait till 2013 when huge new spending starts kicking in. BOHICA...

 

[Cruella]

Quite the opposite, I'm a big fan of Hayek.

I like most of your posts, do you really just assume that I'm being a smart*ss with you?

LOL..no. But I thought your post meant you were not a Hayek fan, which actually surprised me. What do you think of W. Cleon Skousen, who wrote the "Naked Capitalist" and "Naked Communist"?

 

[Centrehalf]

LOL..no. But I thought your post meant you were not a Hayek fan, which actually surprised me. What do you think of W. Cleon Skousen, who wrote the "Naked Capitalist" and "Naked Communist"?

I have heard of him but I've never read any of his books. I do know that he was a Bircher. I do remember reading once that he thought that bankers and large corporations were actually behind the Communist and other Totalitarian movements. Actually, it woldn't surprise me to learn that that was at least partially true.

 

[Gipper]

the point was that just being free does not solve anythng if some bureaucrat 'just says no' to gettig any treatment. we've seen this happen taime and time again in stae managed healthcare.

I just wish someone would take an interest in doing something about health care COSTS.

Of course that is the point. Free is not free when government is involved. We adults know this. Childish Libs do not. That was my point.

HC costs need to be cut significantly. There is an overuse of HC and the government intrusion causes all sorts of problems.

My wife's mother recently fell on her face. They took her to the ER where they did a bank of tests. She was released that night. The total cost of the ER visit was nearly $6k. She paid $80 of this cost and medicare paid the rest. She is far from poor.

 

[Cruella]

The total cost of the ER visit was nearly $6k. She paid $80 of this cost and medicare paid the rest. She is far from poor.

I thought medicare only paid according to their schedule, and then only 80% of that. My doctor won't even take medicare patients because of the low pay schedule and hassle of their filing requirements.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I would have thought that given the rather dire events in your life regarding healthcare the idea of bureaucratic decisions based on cost would be of more interest to you.

They do...but the idiot rantings of the right. You know what would realy help me and my situation out...Single Payer Health care...so my Fiancee did not end up having a good health care plan but having to pay so much in expensises still that even making more then 50,000 a year..and having almost no major expensive outside health care cost...knowing that if her health gets worse and it costs her her job..that we are not going to end up bankrupt quickly yet making a near near 6 figure income right now. Knowing that her Current insurance would not have covered the device that may have saved her life...While a bunch of idiots talk about fake death panals...ignoring that we have them now...They are called your insurance company.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

the point was that just being free does not solve anythng if some bureaucrat 'just says no' to gettig any treatment. we've seen this happen taime and time again in stae managed healthcare.

I just wish someone would take an interest in doing something about health care COSTS.

I am sorry, your wife just died...but you can be rest assured it was not a goverment bureaucrat that said the costs was to high..It was a Profit making companies Bureaucrat that did it, so you can rejoice in that. Please pay the bill on the way out the door.

And you want lower costs...Unless you plan to kill the old, or address Profits...its not going to happen.

 

[Gipper]

I thought medicare only paid according to their schedule, and then only 80% of that. My doctor won't even take medicare patients because of the low pay schedule and hassle of their filing requirements.

I do not believe that applies to ER visits.

We lost a close family member a few years ago. He spent 2 weeks in intensity care before being released to a rehab hospital where he died. Those two weeks cost over $100k, of which he paid about $2,000. He was a millionaire. The system is completely screwed up thanks to government intervention, bureaucracy, and incompetence. Plus the mad desire by politicians to buy the votes of seniors.

 

[Centrehalf]

Pocket, sorry to hear your family is having medical troubles. I sincerely wish you and yours the best.

And you want lower costs...Unless you plan to kill the old, or address Profits...its not going to happen.

This is exactly why I think the ACA is a failure before it even begins, it doesn't address cost. The insurance companies themselves are a pretty big driver when it comes to cost and the ACA not only doesn't address that, it actually puts these companies in a stronger position. Well, the larger companies.

You know what would realy help me and my situation out...Single Payer Health care

Agree. Single Payer won't entirely address cost, it would address funding, but with it we would have no need whatsoever for health insurance companies and as far as cost, that's a start. And, it would address portability issues.

While a bunch of idiots talk about fake death panals...ignoring that we have them now...They are called your insurance company.

I understand why people are focused on this. When people like the Emanuel brothers talk about medical care being linked to societal value that sets off alarm bells for many people, including me. It's true that private insurers also limit care for their own reasons but I get why people are leery right now.

I think the single biggest thing getting in the way of an honest debate about this issue is the fact that many Americans are living under the delusion that going to work and having money deducted for some of their health insurance premium means that they are paying their own way. Most are not even close to paying their own way but as long as people want to believe that they're rugged individualists as far as their health insurance is concerned, there are a lot of problems that just can't be discussed.

 

[Cruella]

So you all think that an industry that makes a 3% profit is excessive and is what's driving medical costs?
Can't wait to see the price tag on a government ran/controlled single payer system. Insurance has already gone up $3000 per family since '09, and very little of the Health care act has been activated.

 

[Centrehalf]

So you all think that an industry that makes a 3% profit is excessive and is what's driving medical costs?
Can't wait to see the price tag on a government ran/controlled single payer system. Insurance has already gone up $3000 per family since '09, and very little of the Health care act has been activated.

1. For a baseline industry 3% is actually very healthy
2. Where did you get the 3% figure?
3. We don't now and won't in the future have a single payer system so drop that right now. Also, all a single payer system does is streamline the funding mechanism. it has no effect on what benefits are given, and doesn't by nature dictate that the government controls care.
4. Insurance per family has gone up by $3000 per family since 2009? Who do you blame for that?

 

[Cruella]

1. For a baseline industry 3% is actually very healthy

Healthy? Hardly, not in an idustry that has so many unknown variables. Insurance companies have no idea what they are going to have to pay-out for an enrollee, or if some horrendous disease or wide spread disaster crops up. It's a numbers game.

2.

Where did you get the 3% figure?

Something I found on a financial report when the first talk of inslurance gouging cropped up. http://blog.corporateresearchgroup.com/2009/08/13/health-plan-profit-margins-rank-86/

3.

We don't now and won't in the future have a single payer system so drop that right now. Also, all a single payer system does is streamline the funding mechanism. it has no effect on what benefits are given, and doesn't by nature dictate that the government controls care.

The IRS, the ones given the task of collecting. isn't the first step to a one payer government controlled system? If you really think all these new 10,ooo page mandates by the government on insurance companies isn't going to eventually destroy the industry, then you have a lot to learn. Cause and effect, and all that. You obviously never heard what Obama said about the single payer system being what he wants, but they would have to start out slowly in increments. Single payer is their end game, don't think it can't happen.

4.

Insurance per family has gone up by $3000 per family since 2009? Who do you blame for that?

It's already been posted here, that hospitals will be getting heavy fines if they have a patient that gets readmitted within the first 30 days of their hospitalization. It's no skin off their nose if they put every patient through every test imaginable at great cost to the insurance company.

 

[Centrehalf]

Healthy? Hardly, not in an idustry that has so many unknown variables. Insurance companies have no idea what they are going to have to pay-out for an enrollee, or if some horrendous disease or wide spread disaster crops up. It's a numbers game.

Bolding added by me. Which is it? Is it unknown or is it a numbers game?

2. Something I found on a financial report when the first talk of inslurance gouging cropped up. http://blog.corporateresearchgroup.com/2009/08/13/health-plan-profit-margins-rank-86/

insurance gouging? Doesn't that kind of make the case for single payer?

3.

The IRS, the ones given the task of collecting. isn't the first step to a one payer government controlled system? If you really think all these new 10,ooo page mandates by the government on insurance companies isn't going to eventually destroy the industry, then you have a lot to learn. Cause and effect, and all that. You obviously never heard what Obama said about the single payer system being what he wants, but they would have to start out slowly in increments. Single payer is their end game, don't think it can't happen.

Not really sure what you're trying to say here. What the hell does the IRS have to do with anything I posted? Did you miss the part where i said the ACA is bad? I think you did. I in fact said the ACA is bad, not good, but if you want to act like I said it was good go right ahead.

4.

It's already been posted here, that hospitals will be getting heavy fines if they have a patient that gets readmitted within the first 30 days of their hospitalization. It's no skin off their nose if they put every patient through every test imaginable at great cost to the insurance company.

Once again, WTF does that have to do with what I posted? All I said is that single payer is a funding mechanism. Get over yourself already. Argue with me based upon what I actually said, not based upon whatever it is that you think I said.

 

[Centrehalf]

btw, regarding number two, it only means something if you say out of how many the rankings consider. Number 86? That means nothing when isolated.

and regarding number three, Obama can say all he wants about single payer, the ACA doesn't establish single payer, so whatever baby.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Something Wicked This Way Comes--

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/328949/car-czar-argues-death-czars-daniel-foster