73% support the "Buffett Rule"

[pocketfullofshells]

Northerners are just in too big of a hurry, that's all.

we are to hard working, and also see how long your conversation time is when its 20 below zero...you find its effective to talk fast.

I have had people from the south have to slow me or others up here down at work , when we where talking, they where getting lost...

 

[Openmind]

And there is a pretty high bar to clear to convict of conspiracy.

I think my Mom said it best "sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you".

And I have to say that if banning free speech is the answer to neo-nazism than you have done nothing but make yourself feel better.

Isn't it wonderful that we are both so happy with our point of views?

Tell the families of all those youths who have committed suicide because of constant bullying (much of it verbal) and aggressive posting on face book!

Tell the families of those who had to bury their loved ones while listening to the rants of the Westboro church.

Tell that to Representative Gifford after she was shot, with so many other people because of HER poliitical allegiance. . . after she was targetted by Palin.

Tell that to all the terrorists who have been inspired to commit murder by the WORDS of a charismatic leader.

And. . .tell that to all the politicians who spend millions upon millions in propaganda to influence the weakest mind among us.

It is the WORDS that were the first step toward Nazism. . .and the killing of so many Jewish people, and Gypsies, and homosexuals!

The holocaust DIDN't START by killing, not even by emprisonment. . .it started by PROPAGANDA. If it had been nipped in the bud. . . maybe the words would have led to NOTHING.

 

[dogtowner]

Isn't it wonderful that we are both so happy with our point of views?

Tell the families of all those youths who have committed suicide because of constant bullying (much of it verbal) and aggressive posting on face book!

Tell the families of those who had to bury their loved ones while listening to the rants of the Westboro church.

Tell that to Representative Gifford after she was shot, with so many other people because of HER poliitical allegiance. . . after she was targetted by Palin.

Tell that to all the terrorists who have been inspired to commit murder by the WORDS of a charismatic leader.

And. . .tell that to all the politicians who spend millions upon millions in propaganda to influence the weakest mind among us.

It is the WORDS that were the first step toward Nazism. . .and the killing of so many Jewish people, and Gypsies, and homosexuals!

The holocaust DIDN't START by killing, not even by emprisonment. . .it started by PROPAGANDA. If it had been nipped in the bud. . . maybe the words would have led to NOTHING.

The Holocaust happened because one warped little man ordered it to happen. That there was no more opposition than there was had to do with rampant antisemitism. Suicide is never as simple as bullying else it would be far more prevalent.

 

[GenSeneca]

It is actually an admirable quote. It espouses values of charity, of respect for your fellow man, of responsibility to your 'brother' for you are his keeper (as the Bible might say).

It's the use of force that I disagree with. If you do those things by your own free will, I would applaud you for it. However, when you put a gun to another mans head and force him to do those things, I will rightly point out that your actions are immoral and that you are a tyrant.

But in this case, he's using it to call you a Marxist -

It is not an insult to point out that the ideology someone espouses comes from Marx. Open claims to have an aversion to "extreme" ideologies yet agrees with, and espouses, the tenets of Marxism, an ideology which just so happens to be on the fringe of the radical Left.

I don't think he is doing it because he agrees that we should all do what we can for one another.

Actually I do agree that we should do all we can for one another - by our own free will - not by force. What people like Open and yourself are advocating is employing the use of force to coerce everyone to act in accordance with your will. Such a use of force is immoral.

 

[GenSeneca]

Perhaps you don't understand, governments are social contracts.

Government: A body of people that sets and administers public policy, and exercises executive, political, and sovereign power through customs, institutions, and laws within a state.​

As for the Social Contract, you appear to hold the collectivist view of Rousseau that each individual must subordinate himself to the will of the collective. In other words, mob rule... a true democracy.

 

[Gipper]

Government: A body of people that sets and administers public policy, and exercises executive, political, and sovereign power through customs, institutions, and laws within a state.​

As for the Social Contract, you appear to hold the collectivist view of Rousseau that each individual must subordinate himself to the will of the collective. In other words, mob rule... a true democracy.

Yes, also in other words....TYRANNY!!!!

 

[Openmind]

Government: A body of people that sets and administers public policy, and exercises executive, political, and sovereign power through customs, institutions, and laws within a state.​

As for the Social Contract, you appear to hold the collectivist view of Rousseau that each individual must subordinate himself to the will of the collective. In other words, mob rule... a true democracy.

I assume you prefer the ruling of a capitalist oligarchy of greed?

 

[Openmind]

It's the use of force that I disagree with. If you do those things by your own free will, I would applaud you for it. However, when you put a gun to another mans head and force him to do those things, I will rightly point out that your actions are immoral and that you are a tyrant

.

Could you show me an exemple of any person or institution putting a gun to anyone's head in order to collect taxes? Or maybe you are still living in medieval times?

It is not an insult to point out that the ideology someone espouses comes from Marx. Open claims to have an aversion to "extreme" ideologies yet agrees with, and espouses, the tenets of Marxism, an ideology which just so happens to be on the fringe of the radical Left.

It is a stupid statement when one's ideology doesn't come from Marx, but from one's own social conscience. While radical right may be close to fachism, and radical left may be close to Marxism, you seem to ignore the whole spectrum of ideas (in addition to ideologies) that are spread between those two extremes. But you seem to consider anyone who is not within your little frame of reference of "ideology" to be at the extreme opposite.
Once again, you are demonstrating your very limited "Black and White," "All or nothing" ability to see the world.

Actually I do agree that we should do all we can for one another - by our own free will - not by force. What people like Open and yourself are advocating is employing the use of force to coerce everyone to act in accordance with your will. Such a use of force is immoral.

[/QUOTE]

Would you please demonstrate WHEN and WHERE I advocated the use of force to coerce anyone in accordance to MY will?

Calling ME immoral is a laughable stretch of anyone's imagination. . .but yours, with your ideologies, in particular!

 

[GenSeneca]

I assume you prefer the ruling of a capitalist oligarchy of greed?

What I would prefer is a Constitutionally limited federal government that protects the individual rights of all citizens equally.

 

[Openmind]

What I would prefer is a Constitutionally limited federal government that protects the individual rights of all citizens equally.

Sounds great. . . if you account for the CHANGES in situation (i.e., need for much more infrastructure, need for more defense, huge population increase, huge development of deadly weapons, global economy, dependency on oil, etc. . .) that have occured since the Constitution was established.

 

[Dr.Who]

Isn't it wonderful that we are both so happy with our point of views?

Tell the families of all those youths who have committed suicide because of constant bullying (much of it verbal) and aggressive posting on face book!

Tell the families of those who had to bury their loved ones while listening to the rants of the Westboro church.

Tell that to Representative Gifford after she was shot, with so many other people because of HER poliitical allegiance. . . after she was targetted by Palin.

Tell that to all the terrorists who have been inspired to commit murder by the WORDS of a charismatic leader.

And. . .tell that to all the politicians who spend millions upon millions in propaganda to influence the weakest mind among us.

It is the WORDS that were the first step toward Nazism. . .and the killing of so many Jewish people, and Gypsies, and homosexuals!

The holocaust DIDN't START by killing, not even by emprisonment. . .it started by PROPAGANDA. If it had been nipped in the bud. . . maybe the words would have led to NOTHING.

In every example you gave while the words were unpleasant the deaths that resulted were the result of people. If words truly were the cause of deaths then book burnings would be legitimate, like in 451.

 

[GenSeneca]

Could you show me an exemple of any person or institution putting a gun to anyone's head in order to collect taxes?

Do you understand the difference between the words "voluntary" and "mandatory"?

It is a stupid statement when one's ideology doesn't come from Marx, but from one's own social conscience.

You are advocating for the same things Marx advocated, and you've already said that you like Marxism but think it's been wrongly demonized by public opinion, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

While radical right may be close to fachism, and radical left may be close to Marxism, you seem to ignore the whole spectrum of ideas (in addition to ideologies) that are spread between those two extremes.

Capitalism is on the far right, Communism is on the far left and Fascism is in the radical center. In fact, the original Fascists were touting the ideology as a perfect blend between the two "extremes" of Communism and Capitalism, a "third way", Fascism was sold as offering the best of both ideologies.

Third Way

Democratic socialism would be an example of a Third Way. This claim is embodied in the alternative description of the Third Way as the Radical center.
...
Past invocations of a political 'third way' or a 'middle way' have included the Fabian Socialism, Distributism, Technocracy (bureaucratic), Keynesian economics, Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, Italian Fascism under Benito Mussolini, Harold Macmillan's 1950s One Nation Conservatism and Phillip Blond's Red Toryism.​

But you seem to consider anyone who is not within your little frame of reference of "ideology" to be at the extreme opposite.

Your views are radical. Unfortunately for freedom, demanding that the life of every American be ruled by the will of the collective is becoming more mainstream.

Would you please demonstrate WHEN and WHERE I advocated the use of force to coerce anyone in accordance to MY will?

You have repeatedly stated that the top 1% should be forced to give up a larger percentage of their income to help the less fortunate. Thus, you are advocating for government to use its monopoly on the legal use of force to coerce people into acting in accordance with your will.

If you still don't understand, then I suggest you go back to the beginning of my post, crack open a dictionary, and learn the difference between the words "voluntary" and "mandatory".

Calling ME immoral is a laughable stretch of anyone's imagination. . .but yours, with your ideologies, in particular!

Forcing people to labor for the benefit of someone else without any compensation for their work is immoral... Or would you like to argue that slavery is moral?

 

[Dr.Who]

.

Could you show me an exemple of any person or institution putting a gun to anyone's head in order to collect taxes? Or maybe you are still living in medieval times?

Search the net with the words "sheriff tax lien".

You will get list after list of properties that are being sold in Sheriff's sales that were taken from people who did not pay their taxes.

In 100% of those cases the reason it is a "sheriff''s sale" and not a "county collector's sale" is because the sheriff is the one who has the gun and can evict the people before their property is sold.

The standard procedure in this country is for an armed sheriff to evict people who don't pay their taxes.

Do you think that property taxes are an anomaly? The search using the words "armed IRS agents"

 

[Dr.Who]

Would you please demonstrate WHEN and WHERE I advocated the use of force to coerce anyone in accordance to MY will?

Calling ME immoral is a laughable stretch of anyone's imagination. . .but yours, with your ideologies, in particular!

Just how do you think the IRS will take the extra money from the rich people that you are proposing if those rich people decide that they don't want to pay?

Would you suggest that the tax collectors in this country have zero authority to enforce the various tax codes? If they don't use guns then just how will they collect those taxes?

 

[Dr.Who]

Sounds great. . . if you account for the CHANGES in situation (i.e., need for much more infrastructure, need for more defense, huge population increase, huge development of deadly weapons, global economy, dependency on oil, etc. . .) that have occured since the Constitution was established.

The const is perfectly capable of being applied given all of those. If not then the correct procedure is to write an amendment. The incorrect procedure is to ignore the document.