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What if...

Discussion in 'Conspiracy Debates' started by dogtowner, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    Typical liberal. Did you know that right and left are both wings of the same house? Of course you didn't because you don't do much thinking for yourself. Right and left both favor big intrusive government...right and left are both socialist modes of thought. I am a conservative...not right nor left. I favor small government that doesn't intrude into every aspect of my life. I favor a meritocracy where people get what and where they get based on their efforts, and not on any physical characteristic that they may have been born with through no fault, or effort of their own.

    And who told you to think that? Clearly it isn't a product of your own thinking because clearly you don't do much of that. I haven't listened to limbaugh since the mid 1990's and have never visited breibard to my knowledge and had never heard of rights alerts till you mentioned it. Had you read any of my previous posts, you would have known that I don't need someone else to think for me or tell me what my opinion is or should be.

    If you are interested, which I seriously doubt, you can see my political position and arguments against yours in a thread in the debates section titled modern liberalism=authoritarianism. I am sure that the discussion is quite over the heads of people who have their opinions and thoughts handed to them but if you care to attempt to point out where I am wrong, do feel free.
     
  2. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    You believe this is the result of republican gerrymandering? What a tool.



    [​IMG]


    You are what is known as a useful idiot. The term applies to a vast number of Americans who have been cynically used by the hard core left for a cause you are quite unwilling, and unprepared to understand.

    Opinion pieces are not sources...and the belief that they are is a hallmark of the useful idiot. And you don't only rely on opinion for your politics...hell, you rely on opinion in scientific matters as evidenced by every single "source" you have provided regarding the climate.

    Being a useful idiot is easy...it requires nothing more than visiting an approved list of people to be handed your opinion...they tell you which lies to tell, which facts to misrepresent, and hand you the means in a nice tidy package. It requires no thought on your part...no actual investigation into the literature...no philosophical thought on the pros and cons of any topic...nothing whatsoever even remotely resembling independent critical thinking...

    And because you visit the approved list of opinion providers, and spew the steaming piles that they provide for you, you believe that you are superior...you believe that anyone who doesn't believe what you believe is a fool. I say believe because it is quite clear that neither you nor "open mind"...what a name...do much, if any actual thinking on your own...as your conversation is not at the same intellectual level as your propaganda.

    If you would like to try and prove me wrong, visit my modern liberalism-= authoritarianism thread and watch me pin your ears back for you.

    And by the way...I am still waiting for a single example of racist policy on the part of republicans...what's the mater...you are so eager to fling the term racist around like the parrot you are...ever wonder why those who provide your opinion to your didn't bother to give you specific examples to argue with?...of course you didn't...that would require independent critical thought on your part and that just isn't a tool in the average liberal, useful idiot's arsenal.
     
  3. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    You really are limited in your ability to understand.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...ring_isnt_the_real_cause_of_polarization.html

    Then we have your usual delusion concerning history, and the purpose of words:

    "In political jargon, a useful idiot (also useful fool[1]) is a person perceived as a propagandist for a cause the goals of which they are not fully aware of, and who is used cynically by the leaders of the cause.[1] According to the Oxford Dictionary of Euphemisms, the phrase stems from useful fool to refer to "a dupe of the Communists" and was used by Vladimir Lenin to refer to those his country had successfully manipulated."


    And again you seem to have found a word(s) that appeal to your shallow intellect. In your low IQ state of mind any article posted could be called an "opinion" piece, and therefore irrelevant. And this would be particularly true of any piece that disagrees with your "opinion".

    Which certainly applies to you since you actually believe that what you say has relevance, or any relation to truth. You are so arrogant you cannot even see that you are little better then a pile of sheep dung with the mind of a parrot. If you ever posted with any thing resembling intelligent thought, well, certainly hell would freeze over. In fact, I would be willing to bet you do all of your own research to come to the conclusions you have. But the reality is that you have not even answered the question I have asked several times now:

    Are they (referring to Nazi's, the KKK, White Supremacists, etc.) now supporters of the Republican Party, and are they not working to fulfill the right wing agenda?

    :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

    Interesting since i have given you several examples as ruled upon by the Courts, and your arrogant mindless being cannot grasp the concept.

    BTW, I am looking for your thread. Did you post it in your imagination?
     
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  4. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Dear, you do not know me, you know NOTHING of me, and you are spewing arrogant shit about something you know nothing about.

    But, I AM a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT and PROUD OF IT.

    All your silly comments mean NOTHING to me. . .because I have experienced it all! I KNOW what a social democracy can do for its people. I also know what run away capitalism (that is, capitalism that is NOT checked by social consciousness) is doing . . .and it is not pretty.

    Now. . .go play with people who care about your ridiculous "judgement" of people you know nothing about. You do not interest me, and your rant means nothing, but to reflect deep ignorance and arrogance.

    Bye! Have a nice life!:cool::cool::D
     
  5. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    What happened to the lying punk? Thought he was so eager to "pin my ears back"? Guess he is too busy trying to find a source for his lies (opinion) to bother with real facts.
     
  6. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    What do you know? More name calling and no argument at all. Why does that not surprise me.

    As to where I have been...We recently lost our dog of 14 years and I am in the process of training a new puppy to be a good citizen which is a full time job. She seems to be far more capable of learning the task than you.

    I am still waiting for you to name any "racist" legislation put forward by trump or the republican party. Thus far, I have seen nothing that could rightly be called racist. If you can't name anything, simply say as much rather than pretending that you have already provided examples.

    And I can't help but note that you have no comments regarding my "modern liberalism= authoritarianism" thread which was where you were to have your ears pinned back. Don't worry, I suspected that the conversation was over your head and never expected you to get involved.
     
  7. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    Unless everything you say is a lie, then you have already revealed very much about yourself.

    Most socialists claim to be proud of their position. You think calling yourself a social democrat means that you aren't a socialist? One of the cornerstones of the social democrat philosophy is promoting government ownership of the means of production....put as much lipstick on that pig as you like, but it is still socialism.

    Of course they don't....your so called open mind is closed up as tight as an oyster...and of course you haven't experienced it all....unless you actually believe having your opinion handed to you, and hating anyone who disagrees with you is all there is.

    Obviously you don't...Look at all the countries that have surrendered the means of production to the government and tell me how wonderful they are to live in.

    Since neither you, nor anyone else has ever seen "run away" capitalism, what makes you think you know what it can or will do?

    Again, unless all you do is lie, you reveal a great deal about yourself every time you speak. Some of us are actually capable of reading a persons words and discerning their attitudes, prejudices, and biases from them. People who actually listen to what others say tend to be able to do that, while people who are closed of and locked in their personal bias generally aren't.

    Not being socialist, that is precisely what I am doing.
     
  8. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    She does not comprehend how true this is
     
  9. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    You are too ignorant about social democracy to argue with you.

    Do and be whatever you wish. I am proud and happy to be a social democrat and the government where I live (a social democracy) does NOT own or wants to own the means of productions. The fact is that social democracies thrive to encourage free enterprise and HELPS corporation and enterprise to provide what is NEEDED for the good of the people by sponsoring partnerships between government and free enterprise.
     
  10. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Kind of the definition of not-free enterprise.
     
  11. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    You lack the ability, and the intellect, to understand what an argument is. All you can do is whine, and lie.

    So what? I have trained many a dog in my time, and it never kept me from doing other things. Sounds like more whining, and an excuse to "name call" others.

    Now you do your usual useful idiot dance, and acting as if nothing was told to you. Fisrst off, the Court have ruled that Trumps ban on Muslims was racist. Then there is the gerrymandering, and voter rules, by the Republicans that the Courts have ruled to be racist. Ignore it all you want, act as if it was never told to you, it just proves what a total ass, and a fool, you are.

    Again showing off your ignorance, and asinine qualities. I told you I could not find the thread, and asked that you post it for me. Silly fool doesn't even know where it was at I guess.
     
  12. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    You have no argument..you have name calling and the opinions of others and that is about all you have.

    Then clearly you never trained a working dog...a dog that actually earns her keep....when you take on that task, it is because that is just about all you want to do. There is little time for anything else for about the first 8 or 9 months. I suppose you think teaching a dog to sit and roll over and not crap on the carpet is training. Good for you.

    Like I said...I have been waiting for you to name a racist policy from either trump or the republicans. To date, you haven't managed to provide anything. In your post truth, alternate facts existence, I don't guess that the fact that words have meanings really sinks in...or means much to you. The word racist has a specific meaning..it isn't just a word whiners use to shut down arguments. Here, let me help you out.

    Dictionary.com - Racism - a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

    Webster - Racism - a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

    The Free Dictionary - Racism - The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

    Cambridge Dictionary - Racism - The belief that some races are better than others, or the unfair treatmentof someone because of his or her race

    Oxford -Racism- Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.


    So it seems that dictionaries across the board pretty much agree on the definition of racism and there is no specific definition for the term in the legal dictionaries so the courts must rely on the same definition as the rest of us. Trump put a ban on immigrants and refugees from 7 countries. The predominant race of those 7 countries is arab if you care to call arab a race. He did not put a ban on arabs, nor did he put a ban on any arabs from 4o some odd other countries whose predominant race is arab....further, the executive order was informed by policy put in place by obama.

    Were it a racist policy, it would be in place against all middle easterners rather than middle easterners from 7 specific countries...hell, if it were against muslims, it still would not be racism, it might be religious discrimination..business as usual for liberals for decades, but not racism.

    Here is the order...using the actual definition of racism rather than some made up definition in accordance with your alt.reality existence, point out the racism contained therein.

    [T]o ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas). . . .

    [T]he Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked.



    Crying racism when none is present is just typical liberal name calling in an effort to avoid the actual issue. It has been the game plan of liberals for decades.

    And to claim that it must be true because a court said so is to assume that the courts are infallible. The definition of the word is what it is...it means a certain thing and clearly his ban on immigrants and refugees from those 7 countries while still allowing people of the same race to immigrate from roughly 40 other countries precludes the whining, hysterical cry of racism.

    Democrats are still gerrymandering in states where they hold the majority...are they racist also? You aren't pissed about gerrymandering, you are pissed because republicans have better success with it than democrats.

    So I am still waiting for you to provide any policy by trump or republicans that is racist in nature.

    http://houseofpolitics.com/threads/modern-liberalism-authoritarianism.1879/ There you go as if it were hard to find.

    A simple search for threads started buy me would have placed the thread in position 12. Not hard for a thinking person but clearly difficult for you.
     
  13. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    I am sure that you like to think that people who don't agree with you are ignorant...or stupid...or any of dozens of other adjectives which does nothing more than justify your inability to actually engage on the topic.

    It would seem that you are woefully ignorant of the broad failure of center left governments and traditional parties of the "working class" across the globe. The fact is that social democracy has nothing to offer young people...beyond the same failed promises of decades past. The primary goal of social democracy was to bring about a state of public content with government and assure them that the elites would look out for them and their interest. The result has been exactly the opposite.

    Look at Europe, it is the populist right that is gaining ground...social democrats lose more ground every year.

    And by the way...as government "partners" interesting choice of words since government never "partners" with anyone or anything...as government increasingly "partners" with business, freedom decreases in proportion. There is no free enterprise with government as a parter...the inequality of power is just to great for there ever to be anything like a real partnership.
     
  14. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    No, all people who disagree with me are not ignorant. But those who do NOT live in a social democracy and make ridiculous statement about the failure of such a system are obviously ignorant of that system, and. . .spewing negative propaganda about something they do not know does not demonstrate knowledge or intelligence.

    The populist RIGHT is NOT gaining ground in Europe. . .as Macron's election recently demonstrated.

    I LIVE in Europe. I have family and close friends living in several European countries (Italy, France, Portugal, England and Belgium).

    I experience FIRST HAND what our system of government is. . .not perfect, but a good deal better than the "run away" capitalism that is "King" in the US.

    And, YES, I also have first hand experience with the US, since I lived there for the better part of 40 years and I was educated there.

    Now. . .you are obviously not interested in debating with me, since you can't help but to poo-poo every one of my statements, and I am not interested in debating with someone who "knows it all" and refuse to consider that someone else might have an experience that is broader and maybe deeper than one.

    So. . .have a nice day spewing your opinions. I have no interest in people who seem unable to open their mind and learn from others' life experience.
     
  15. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    Typical liberal...so insulated from the truth that it always comes as a shock when it smacks you right in the face. You think because Macron won an election that it means that the populist right is not gaining ground across europe? There is a reason that liberals are known world wide as the kings of unintended consequences...that would be because, as you have shown, you can't think much past the last election.

    Here, have a look at some truth...and who knows, some of it may actually sink in and you just might come to realize that the populist right is in fact gaining ground across europe and it is because social democrats have nothing to offer but the same old unfulfillable promises that they have been offering for decades.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/22/world/europe/europe-right-wing-austria-hungary.html

    The charts at that link are interactive...drag your pointer over them and they will show you who is gaining ground and who is losing....and the inevitable result is that the populist right is gaining ground in practically every country in europe except for portugal and spain and italy.

    Interesting that you live there, and have family and friends there and remain unaware that the populist right is gaining ground every year. It shouldn't be a surprise to you when socialist democrats are out in the cold in 10 or 15 years.

    In italy for instance, while the populist right is not gaining ground, the PD is losing ground. In 2008 the PD won 33.2% of the vote...in 2013, they won 25.4%

    In france, in 2013 PS won 29.4% of the vote..in 2015, they didn't even win enough to be mentioned...they were placed in the "other parties" category who only managed to get 15.9% of the vote all combined while the national front went from 4.3% of the vote in 2007 to 13.6% of the vote in 2012, to 27.7% of the vote in 2015.

    In britian, the SDLP gained 1% of the vote from 2010 to 2015 while the UKIP increased its share of the vote by 12.7%.

    In belgium, the PS won13.7% of the vote in 2010 and dropped to 11.7% in 2014 while the New flemish alliance won 17.4% of the vote in 2010, and increased their share to 20.3% in 2014. The party that was closest to them in total vote was the PS with 11.7%.

    No, you have insulated yourself from what is happening in your system of government so well that you are unaware that it is failing.

    Say something that is philosophically supportable if you don't want to get poo pooed....And I know what I know because I take the time to learn it...I don't assume anything which is clearly all that you do...and of course there are people who have broader and deeper experience than me...you just aren't one of them.

    Since you clearly had no idea what is actually happening over the years in european politics, exactly what sort of experience are you talking about? The experience of living in a fantasy world till such time as the rug is suddenly ripped from under your feet? People who actually experience things tend to gain some knowledge of that thing...you clearly haven't as you are under the impression that an election won by one party means that another party isn't gaining ground steadily year by year. You and people like you are setting yourselves up to be blind sided in a hard way in a decade or so.
     

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