Wesley Clark tells it like it is

[Libsmasher]

EVEN Obama doesn't think Clark's crude, offensive, false, and dishonorable attack on McCain was "telling it like it is":

.... during a speech on patriotism in Independence, Mo., Obama told an audience that McCain’s patriotism was clear, and alluded to Clark’s comments by calling for a cease to politically motivated attacks on military service.

“For those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country — no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary. And let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides,” Obama said.

And if the reference was not clear enough, Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton issued a separate statement regarding Clark’s comments.

“As he’s said many times before, Senator Obama honors and respects Senator McCain’s service, and of course he rejects yesterday’s statement by General Clark,” Burton said.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/30/mccain-proud-of-service-calls-wes-clark-comment-unnecessary/

To Obama, Wesley Clark must seem like the second coming of Jeremiah Wright - a supporter who is giving him a bad image. Clark's attack came at the same time that Obama gave a speech on patriotism, seeking to end the suspicions that he's not patriotic. Obama supporter Clark, in a clumsy attempt to promote himself as VP, made a despicable attack on one of america's greatest living war heroes, weakening Obama's attempt to put an end to the patriotism issue. A tip o' the hat to the four star pencil pusher!

 

[GenSeneca]

I'm reporting on what a distinguished retired General had to say about John McCain.

I'm just curious, whats your opinion of Active, and currently serving, General David Petraeus.....

Does General Petraeus "tell it like it is" when he reports on Iraq?

 

[Popeye]

I said he never >>>>>>FOUGHT<<<<<<<< in combat, I didn't say he wasn't nearby when OTHER people were doing the fighting. I need a detailed account of this - if he, the company commander, got shot four times by a VC, it means he let his comapny be overrun by the enemy and was incompetent. The silver star also has a suspicious smell, sort of like Kerry getting himself a silver star for a very fake sounding story. It sounds like Clark was overrun, shot up, and yelled at his troops "Help! Help! Get these guys off me!" Heroic? Not.

You provide no links, no nothing to support your denigration of Gen. Clark's service. Your claim that the incident in Vietnam in which Gen. Clark was shot 4 times sounds "very fake" and has a 'suspicious smell" is based totally on your dislike for Clark's politics and, like most of your comments, has no basis in fact.

Besides being a four-star general and having been awarded the aforementioned Silver Star, Clark has received five Defense Distinguished Service Medals, four Legion of Merit Awards, two Army Distinguished Service Medals, two Bronze Star Medals and the Purple Heart.

You are so misinformed and so driven by bias that your status is one of a complete and utter fool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark

 

[Libsmasher]

You provide no links, no nothing to support your denigration of Gen. Clark's service. Your claim that the incident in Vietnam in which Gen. Clark was shot 4 times sounds "very fake" and has a 'suspicious smell" is based totally on your dislike for Clark's politics and, like most of your comments, has no basis in fact.

I clearly identified my opinion as "suspicions" about the silver star - therfore it's idiotic to ask for links.

Besides being a four-star general and having been awarded the aforementioned Silver Star, Clark has received five Defense Distinguished Service Medals, four Legion of Merit Awards, two Army Distinguished Service Medals, two Bronze Star Medals and the Purple Heart.

Other than the vietnam incident, the rest of Clark's medals were obtained while he was sitting behind a desk (anyone who reads the wiki article will see this is true).

Eg, take the Bronze Star (from the wiki Clark article):

He worked as a staff officer, collecting data and helping in operations planning, and was awarded the Bronze Star for his work with the staff.

From the wiki article for the bronze star:

The Bronze Star Medal is a United States Armed Forces individual military decoration which may be awarded for bravery, acts of merit, or meritorious service.

In other words, McCain got his medals for bombing runs while avoiding SAM missiles shot at him, Clark got his for "planning". And for screaming for his troops to come help him while he was being used for target practice by the VC. Once again, the wiki article provides little explanation of the vietnam incident - if you have any clarifying details, provide them. Otherwise, it's clear your just imagining things, and upset because I won't imagine them with you.

Let's look at his legion of merits (from wiki):

While on staff at SHAPE, Clark wrote policy reports and coordinated two multinational military exercises. As a result of his work on Haig's staff, Clark was promoted to lieutenant colonel and was awarded the Legion of Merit.

He then served as the Operations Group commander at the Fort Irwin Military Reservation from August 1984 to June 1986. He was awarded yet another Legion of Merit and a Meritorious Service Medal for his work at Fort Irwin,

He was awarded yet another Legion of Merit for his "personal efforts" that were "instrumental in maintaining" the NTC, according to the citation.

See? He won all those medals by desk jockey activities, not charging a machine gun nest. He sounds like the archtype paper pushing general, not battle-tested fighter like McCain.

You are so misinformed and so driven by bias that your status is one of a complete and utter fool.

Ooooooo - looks like you're losing it. All your defamation and distortion is held up to the light and exposed for what it is, and now you're panicking and lashing out.

 

[Popeye]

I clearly identified my opinion as "suspicions" about the silver star - therfore it's idiotic to ask for links.

suspicion-the act of suspecting something, especially something wrong, on little evidence or without proof...... Hmm, that pretty much defines 95% of your posts, wouldn't you say?

Instead of politically based suspicions, lets look at what Gen. Clark's Silver Star citation states:

"As the friendly force maneuvered through the treacherous region, it was suddenly subjected to an intense small arms fire from a well-concealed insurgent element. Although painfully wounded in the initial volley, Captain Clark immediately directed his men on a counter-assault of the enemy positions.

With complete disregard for his personal safety, Captain Clark remained with his unit until the reactionary force arrived and the situation was well in hand. His courageous initiative and exemplary professionalism significantly contributed to the successful outcome of the engagement.

Captain Clark's unquestionable valor in close combat against a hostile force is in keeping with the finest traditions of the military service and reflects great credit upon himself, the 1st Infantry Division, and the United States Army."

http://securingamerica.com/node/878

Other than the vietnam incident, the rest of Clark's medals were obtained while he was sitting behind a desk (anyone who reads the wiki article will see this is true).

I'm glad to see that you are now admitting you were wrong, about Gen. Clark's Vietnam incident, if grudgingly and in a round about way. In light of the previous description of Clark's meritorious conduct it turns out to be the proper move.

In other words, McCain got his medals for bombing runs while avoiding SAM missiles shot at him, Clark got his for "planning". And for screaming for his troops to come help him while he was being used for target practice by the VC.

Since you seem to think so highly of John McCain's so called heroism, may I ask what did he do other than drop bombs and napalm on innocent women and children?

While I'll give him credit for surviving his POW experience, there seems to be little doubt that he was given special treatment owing to the fact that he was the son of an Admiral. Come to think of it, McCain was treated with kid gloves throughout his military career, thanks to daddy. Now, of course, he has a political career financed by mommy. Mommy and daddy, where would little Johnny be without them?

 

[top gun]

What General Wesley Clark said was the absolute truth and everyone in their own mind really knows it.

All that's going on now is posturing. Saying someone has executive governing skills just because they flew a plane or were a POW is ludicrous on its face.

There are ex-military personnel who have encountered the same type things that are homeless wandering the streets. It's a totally individual thing. The case could probably be made that the physical & psychological damage inflicted on McSame actually weakens his position.

And yet again Senator Obama has taken the high road not wanting this election to be negative... that's all fine I guess... but it doesn't change the fact that General Wesley Clark was dead on in his assessment of John McSame.

This is someone who followed his families tradition and joined the Navy. Then got shot down and suffered during war time... but he's obviously no great chief executive...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iWYAOMYmp0

 

[pocketfullofshells]

EVEN Obama doesn't think Clark's crude, offensive, false, and dishonorable attack on McCain was "telling it like it is":



http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/30/mccain-proud-of-service-calls-wes-clark-comment-unnecessary/

To Obama, Wesley Clark must seem like the second coming of Jeremiah Wright - a supporter who is giving him a bad image. Clark's attack came at the same time that Obama gave a speech on patriotism, seeking to end the suspicions that he's not patriotic. Obama supporter Clark, in a clumsy attempt to promote himself as VP, made a despicable attack on one of america's greatest living war heroes, weakening Obama's attempt to put an end to the patriotism issue. A tip o' the hat to the four star pencil pusher!

or you just don't know someone who is saying what he has to , but knows its true. But does not want to been seen as attacking McCain's Service...that while great, does not mean much of anything for running the nation. His work in the Senate is far more Experience for the job then his Military service.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

No rebuttal? Garsh, I'm surprised!

Here is my rebutal, Learn to read, and go back and look at that Thread. I know facts are hard for you. so take your time.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I'm just curious, whats your opinion of Active, and currently serving, General David Petraeus.....

Does General Petraeus "tell it like it is" when he reports on Iraq?

Its hard to say, becuse he may be free to do so, but may feel like he has to sugar coat some things to keep his job. He may just tell it like it is, and he may tell it like it is, but be wrong still...hard to know unless you are him.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

How sad is it that the Right must call in to question any medals won by liberals in the Military? you know what the Military said they earned it, shut he hell up unless you plan to prove with no doubt something. Its Disrespectful to anyone who won those medals, and even more to those in question who served and earned them. Bunch of worthless hacks with no shame who will later claim that its them who support the troops...I guess only Conservative Troops though.

 

[Federal Farmer]

You provide no links, no nothing to support your denigration of Gen. Clark's service. Your claim that the incident in Vietnam in which Gen. Clark was shot 4 times sounds "very fake" and has a 'suspicious smell" is based totally on your dislike for Clark's politics and, like most of your comments, has no basis in fact.

Besides being a four-star general and having been awarded the aforementioned Silver Star, Clark has received five Defense Distinguished Service Medals, four Legion of Merit Awards, two Army Distinguished Service Medals, two Bronze Star Medals and the Purple Heart.

You are so misinformed and so driven by bias that your status is one of a complete and utter fool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark

Popeye, I'll be the first one to stand up and defend Clark's Silver Star and Purple Heart, but the rest of his ornamentation was for being a "pencil pusher", and nothing more. Now, having said that, there's nothing wrong with being a "pencil pusher", the military NEEDS them, otherwise it simply couldn't function. Even Eisenhower, a man who did a magnificent job as SACEU during WWII, and later as POTUS, was a "pencil pusher", BUT, I can guaran-damned-tee you that he wouldn't have EVER had the temerity to compare his 42 year military career, including his service as SACEU, to that of any combat Private who served under his command!

The fact of the matter is that McCain spent well over half of his 27 year military career at the "sharp end of the spear", while Clark spent all but one month of his behind a desk. Even though Clark was wounded in Vietnam, and then immediately received the finest medical care this country had to offer, he never volunteered to return to his men. McCain, on the other hand, was, while still injured, TORTURED by the NVA and it wasn't until the NVA realized who he was that he received ANY medical care at all, and what he did receive was primitive at best. Even after having endured this, and even after the NVA realized who he was and offered to repatriate him, he REFUSED to be released unless every man who had been there before him was also released, knowing the NVA would refuse, so he remained with his men, for five and a half YEARS, endured more torture, and still led the resistance movement inside the POW camp knowing that he could be killed for it. Even after his release, instead of taking a "medical" release, he endured thousands of hours of physical therapy, and was eventually returned to flight status and took over command of one of the training Squadrons at Pensacola NAS, where he turned around an undistinguished unit, and helped earn them their first M.U.C., after which he was assigned as the Naval Liaison to the US Senate, and was instrumental in gaining the Nimitz class carrier over the objections of the Carter administration in 1977, before declining a Rear Admiral promotion and retiring in 1981.

Simply put, anything that Clark has to say about McCain's qualifications to be POTUS, based on his military career is akin to some idiot who never even started for his JV football team talking trash about Bart Starr or "Mean" Joe Green, it's just plain retarded, and so is anyone who buys his line of BS. Frankly, the fact that Clark would even stoop to something like this only serves to prove that he's nothing but a worthless POS who isn't worthy to lick the dogsh*t off of McCain's boot heel.

 

[SW85]

Let me repeat myself: Clarke's remarks are easily addressed without raising questions about his own military service.

It is true that McCain's POW status does not qualify him for the Presidency.

But no one ever claimed that he should be President because he was a POW.

It has been said it was a heroic story and a testament to McCain's character. But he has not claimed that he ought to be President on the basis of his captivity during Vietnam. He has claimed his long tenure of service in war and in public office has qualified him for it. Clarke's remarks are a non sequitur.

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
I clearly identified my opinion as "suspicions" about the silver star - therfore it's idiotic to ask for links.

suspicion-the act of suspecting something, especially something wrong, on little evidence or without proof...... Hmm, that pretty much defines 95% of your posts, wouldn't you say?

There you go - lying again. I cited wiki that his legions of merit, eg, were for making "reports" and doing "planning" and running Fort Irwin in the good ol' safe US. You have no rebuttal to those FACTS, so you just make another bald-faced lie - everyone who's read this far in the thread can see you're lying yet again.

Instead of politically based suspicions, lets look at what Gen. Clark's Silver Star citation states:

"As the friendly force maneuvered through the treacherous region, it was suddenly subjected to an intense small arms fire from a well-concealed insurgent element. Although painfully wounded in the initial volley, Captain Clark immediately directed his men on a counter-assault of the enemy positions.

Just like I said: "Help! Help! Get 'em off me! You guys attack - I'll sit here, and, uh, uh ....... direct the battle. YAAA! That's it - I'll direct the battle!"

With complete disregard for his personal safety, Captain Clark remained with his unit until the reactionary force arrived and the situation was well in hand. His courageous initiative and exemplary professionalism significantly contributed to the successful outcome of the engagement.

Translation: he was surrounded due to his incompetence (later revealed again in the Balkans war) and had no choice but to "remain", another group of soldiers (the "reactionary force") came to bail him out, and THEY got "the situation well in hand".

This has got "John Kerry silver star" written all over it, and I'd like to hear an account from eyewitness grunts who were there and know what happened - you CERTAINLY don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmaher
Other than the vietnam incident, the rest of Clark's medals were obtained while he was sitting behind a desk (anyone who reads the wiki article will see this is true).

I'm glad to see that you are now admitting you were wrong, about Gen. Clark's Vietnam incident, if grudgingly and in a round about way. In light of the previous description of Clark's meritorious conduct it turns out to be the proper move.

Nothing of the kind, and I note you choose not to bring up the topic of Clark's desk jockey medals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
In other words, McCain got his medals for bombing runs while avoiding SAM missiles shot at him, Clark got his for "planning". And for screaming for his troops to come help him while he was being used for target practice by the VC.

Since you seem to think so highly of John McCain's so called heroism, may I ask what did he do other than drop bombs and napalm on innocent women and children?

McCain flew 23 bombing missions over the heavily defended North Vietnam, and anyone who knows anything about that war (that apparently would exclude you) knows that the McNamara crew put incredible restrictions on what could be bombed and what couldn't, including in the latter case legitimate military targets such as the port of Haiphong, where shipments of SAM missiles from china and the soviet union were arriving.

While I'll give him credit for surviving his POW experience, there seems to be little doubt that he was given special treatment owing to the fact that he was the son of an Admiral. Come to think of it, McCain was treated with kid gloves throughout his military career, thanks to daddy. Now, of course, he has a political career financed by mommy. Mommy and daddy, where would little Johnny be without them?

I've asked you about five times to provide proof for this particular defamation - that you haven't shows you are a coward as well as a liar and libeler.

 

[Libsmasher]

Popeye, I'll be the first one to stand up and defend Clark's Silver Star and Purple Heart

Really?? Defend it from what I said. The silver star sounds very much like a phony award - he was attacked, told his men to shoot back, and was rescued by another force. Were they handing out silver stars just for not surrendering?? It's clear more facts are needed about this incident. Of course the lib media is just as uninterested in that as they were about all of Kerry's fake purple hearts.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Really?? Defend it from what I said. The silver star sounds very much like a phony award - he was attacked, told his men to shoot back, and was rescued by another force. Were they handing out silver stars just for not surrendering?? It's clear more facts are needed about this incident. Of course the lib media is just as uninterested in that as they were about all of Kerry's fake purple hearts.

you dont know jack about what happened and its not up to you to decided, and being shot 4 times and staying aware to do your job the whole time,,,,,would love to see you do that...