The Lybia/ CIA / M16 connection

[PLC1]

TRIPOLI: Documents found in the abandoned Tripoli office of Muammar Gadaffi's intelligence chief indicate the US and British spy agencies helped the fallen strongman persecute Libyan dissidents, Human Rights Watch said.

The files shed new light on the practice known as rendition, used by the US under former President George W Bush, in which the terrorism suspects were handed over to other countries for interrogation. Rights groups have criticized the US for sending these suspects to countries where they were likely to be tortured.

According to CNN, which also just aired this story but hasn't yet put it on their website, the "rendition" papers were faxed under the Bush administration, but Obama used emails. They aren't yet sure whether subjects were sent to Libya for torture under the present administration.

Surely, more news of this will follow.

Link

 

[Pandora]

According to CNN, which also just aired this story but hasn't yet put it on their website, the "rendition" papers were faxed under the Bush administration, but Obama used emails. They aren't yet sure whether subjects were sent to Libya for torture under the present administration.

Surely, more news of this will follow.

Link

So... What president sent the guy's to Libya for torture? President Bush or obama?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

So... What president sent the guy's to Libya for torture? President Bush or obama?

we know Bush did...the only question is if Obama did.

 

[PLC1]

we know Bush did...the only question is if Obama did.

Exactly. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that nothing changed with the changing of the guard except the shift from FAX to email. But, I suppose we'll find out sooner or later.

 

[GenSeneca]

So... What president sent the guy's to Libya for torture? President Bush or obama?

You should put the word "torture" in quotes since these Ministry of Truthers change the definition according to whom it applies. Bush uses rendition, TORTURE! Obama uses rendition, well... he's just too intelligent, nuanced, and progressive in his worldview for mere mortals, like you, to appreciate the infinite wisdom of his actions.

 

[PLC1]

You should put the word "torture" in quotes since these Ministry of Truthers change the definition according to whom it applies. Bush uses rendition, TORTURE! Obama uses rendition, well... he's just too intelligent, nuanced, and progressive in his worldview for mere mortals, like you, to appreciate the infinite wisdom of his actions.

Talk about an outrageous



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I have to admit, though, you really knocked it down, Wham! Straw went everywhere!

 

[GenSeneca]

Talk about an outrageous

I created a thread called, What Interrogation Techniques are Acceptable?

In that thread you argued that all terror suspects should be given POW status, even though they meet NONE of the requirements set forth by the Geneva Convention. So yeah, I think you're certainly one who likes to pretend all words have fluid meanings so that you can apply them when you like, and how you like.

Also in that thread, I was asking for people to give me specific examples of interrogation techniques that would be acceptable... You couldn't offer any specifics - that would eliminate all the "gray" area you like to hide in - so instead, you spent the entire thread pissing and moaning that waterboarding was torture and we shouldn't do it.

 

[Pandora]

You should put the word "torture" in quotes since these Ministry of Truthers change the definition according to whom it applies. Bush uses rendition, TORTURE! Obama uses rendition, well... he's just too intelligent, nuanced, and progressive in his worldview for mere mortals, like you, to appreciate the infinite wisdom of his actions.

Well, I couldn't do that because I didn't know if obama did it too. If it was just President Bush, then of course it was "torture" and evil too! But if obama did it too then it's probably just something presidents need to do sometimes.

So I am kind of waiting to find out if it was bad or presidential based on obama's involvement

 

[GenSeneca]

So I am kind of waiting to find out if it was bad or presidential based on obama's involvement

You already know the answer to that...

Did you know that in order to find the guy who led US troops to Bin Laden, we used TORTURE! ...Well, those evil right wingers refer to it as "Enhanced Interrogation" but us Progressives know it's still TORTURE!

It's true, confirmed by WIKI Leaks, we captured a guy named Ghul in Iraq, the CIA interrogated him, then used rendition to send him to a prison in Pakistan. He told us about al-Kuwaiti, the man who led us to OBL.

Ghul's statements were checked against other detainee's who had undergone enhanced interrogation as well. Such lovable people as KSM and al-Libi verified what Ghul had to say. So we began following al-Kuwaiti, who led us right to OBL.

But to hear the Leftists tell the story... Obama put on a ninja outfit, went traipsing through the mountains of Pakistan where he caught the scent of OBL, tracked the scent back to his secret hideout, then, without any help and totally bare handed, and against 100 AK-47 toting terrorists, Obama personally killed OBL and all 200 of OBL's henchmen. Afterwards, Obama dragged the lifeless corpse of OBL 400 miles to the ocean, had his picture taken standing on OBL's chest with one foot, told the navy to dispose of his body at sea, then Obama sent the special forces back to the compound to retrieve the bodies of the other 500 terrorists he'd killed and stage it all to look like it was actually US troops who killed OBL and the 800 terrorists at the compound instead of Obama, who was technically, still on vacation.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Gens Position...they are not POW's the are also not Americans thus have no Rights here...thus we can just do what ever we want with no charges...right? Maybe we should have like a reality TV show where they hunt and kill each other like Gladiators...I mean its not like they have rights right? and so you hack off a arm or something...they are no POW's so you can torture them,...I mean enhanced interrogation....

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You already know the answer to that...

Did you know that in order to find the guy who led US troops to Bin Laden, we used TORTURE! ...Well, those evil right wingers refer to it as "Enhanced Interrogation" but us Progressives know it's still TORTURE!

It's true, confirmed by WIKI Leaks, we captured a guy named Ghul in Iraq, the CIA interrogated him, then used rendition to send him to a prison in Pakistan. He told us about al-Kuwaiti, the man who led us to OBL.

Ghul's statements were checked against other detainee's who had undergone enhanced interrogation as well. Such lovable people as KSM and al-Libi verified what Ghul had to say. So we began following al-Kuwaiti, who led us right to OBL.

But to hear the Leftists tell the story... Obama put on a ninja outfit, went traipsing through the mountains of Pakistan where he caught the scent of OBL, tracked the scent back to his secret hideout, then, without any help and totally bare handed, and against 100 AK-47 toting terrorists, Obama personally killed OBL and all 200 of OBL's henchmen. Afterwards, Obama dragged the lifeless corpse of OBL 400 miles to the ocean, had his picture taken standing on OBL's chest with one foot, told the navy to dispose of his body at sea, then Obama sent the special forces back to the compound to retrieve the bodies of the other 500 terrorists he'd killed and stage it all to look like it was actually US troops who killed OBL and the 800 terrorists at the compound instead of Obama, who was technically, still on vacation.

Did you know that they have stated that the info we got and used...was of course got using normal techniques.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...ture-did-not-lead-to-bin-laden-in-any-way.php

sorry I forgot to read the Fox talking points.

 

[PLC1]

I created a thread called, What Interrogation Techniques are Acceptable?

In that thread you argued that all terror suspects should be given POW status, even though they meet NONE of the requirements set forth by the Geneva Convention. So yeah, I think you're certainly one who likes to pretend all words have fluid meanings so that you can apply them when you like, and how you like.

Also in that thread, I was asking for people to give me specific examples of interrogation techniques that would be acceptable... You couldn't offer any specifics - that would eliminate all the "gray" area you like to hide in - so instead, you spent the entire thread pissing and moaning that waterboarding was torture and we shouldn't do it.

and I, or any other member of this forum, excused Obama for doing the same thing, when exactly?

hence, the outrageous strawman.

Torture is torture, whether the POTUS is an R or a D doesn't matter.


Besides, are you going to tell us that Libya limited itself to waterboarding? C'mon, you know better than that.