So You Don't Believe In Ocean Acidification

Old_Trapper70

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http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/ocean/explore/pristine-seas/critical-issues-ocean-acidification/

http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-acidification

Ocean acidification is sometimes called “climate change’s equally evil twin,” and for good reason: it's a significant and harmful consequence of excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that we don't see or feel because its effects are happening underwater. At least one-quarter of the carbon dioxide (CO2) released by burning coal, oil and gas doesn't stay in the air, but instead dissolves into the ocean. Since the beginning of the industrial era, the ocean has absorbed some 525 billion tons of CO2 from the atmosphere, presently around 22 million tons per day.

At first, scientists thought that this might be a good thing because it leaves less carbon dioxide in the air to warm the planet. But in the past decade, they’ve realized that this slowed warming has come at the cost of changing the ocean’s chemistry. When carbon dioxide dissolves in seawater, the water becomes more acidic and the ocean’s pH (a measure of how acidic or basic the ocean is) drops. Even though the ocean is immense, enough carbon dioxide can have a major impact. In the past 200 years alone, ocean water has become 30 percent more acidic—faster than any known change in ocean chemistry in the last 50 million years.
 
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Point #1...your idiot link neglects to mention that the majority of life in the ocean evolved during a time when atmospheric CO2 was about 10 times what it is today...and even then the oceans were not acidic....acidic sea water is a myth...it will never happen...the ocean can become less alkaline...but never acidic...the ocean acidification myth is just more hysterical handwaving on the part of idiot alarmists...

Point #2....warmer oceans outgas more than they take up...cold water holds more CO2 than warm water...open two cans of soda...one room temperature...one from the refrigerator...put the warm one on the counter..and the cold one back in the refrigerator...taste them tomorrow...you will see that the warm one is flat as a pancake...so it lost its CO2...the cold one while it will be less fizzy than when freshly opened will still be bubbly....if the oceans are warming then there is no danger of them becoming less alkaline as they are outgassing...if they are becoming cooler, then the AGW scam is proven to be a scam...how could the oceans be cooling if the earth is warming?

Refer to Henry's law...it states that the concentration of gas in liquid is proportional to the gas in equilibrium above the liquid...Henry's law assumes a constant temperature...if the temperature changes, then the rate and level of absorption changes...if the oceans warm, then they outgas...if they cool, then they take up CO2...

Point #3...your hysterical 30% more acidic amounts to 0.1 pH unit less alkaline than it was during pre industrial times...proxy studies indicate that the ocean pH has varied from 7.91 to 8.29 during the past 7000 years....that puts the natural cyclic variation more than 4 times larger than the 0.1 pH unit you seem to be so worried about.

Point #4...there is no evidence that the oceans were ever acidic during the past 500 million years even when atmospheric CO2 was in excess of 6500ppm..this tells us that there is yet another controlling factor...namely the buffering action of basalt rocks on the ocean floor...when the ocean runs out of rocks, start worrying...till then hysterical handwaving doesn't make alarmism true.
 
Point #1...your idiot link neglects to mention that the majority of life in the ocean evolved during a time when atmospheric CO2 was about 10 times what it is today...and even then the oceans were not acidic....acidic sea water is a myth...it will never happen...the ocean can become less alkaline...but never acidic...the ocean acidification myth is just more hysterical handwaving on the part of idiot alarmists...

Source, if you have one.

http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-acidification

"When water (H2O) and CO2 mix, they combine to form carbonic acid (H2CO3). Carbonic acid is weak compared to some of the well-known acids that break down solids, such as hydrochloric acid (the main ingredient in gastric acid, which digests food in your stomach) and sulfuric acid (the main ingredient in car batteries, which can burn your skin with just a drop). The weaker carbonic acid may not act as quickly, but it works the same way as all acids: it releases hydrogen ions (H+), which bond with other molecules in the area.

Seawater that has more hydrogen ions is more acidic by definition, and it also has a lower pH. In fact, the definitions of acidification terms—acidity, H+, pH —are interlinked: acidity describes how many H+ ions are in a solution; an acid is a substance that releases H+ ions; and pH is the scale used to measure the concentration of H+ ions.

The lower the pH, the more acidic the solution. The pH scale goes from extremely basic at 14 (lye has a pH of 13) to extremely acidic at 1 (lemon juice has a pH of 2), with a pH of 7 being neutral (neither acidic or basic). The ocean itself is not actually acidic in the sense of having a pH less than 7, and it won’t become acidic even with all the CO2 that is dissolving into the ocean. But the changes in the direction of increasing acidity are still dramatic.

So far, ocean pH has dropped from 8.2 to 8.1 since the industrial revolution, and is expected by fall another 0.3 to 0.4 pH units by the end of the century. A drop in pH of 0.1 might not seem like a lot, but the pH scale, like the Richter scale for measuring earthquakes, is logarithmic. For example, pH 4 is ten times more acidic than pH 5 and 100 times (10 times 10) more acidic than pH 6. If we continue to add carbon dioxide at current rates, seawater pH may drop another 120 percent by the end of this century, to 7.8 or 7.7, creating an ocean more acidic than any seen for the past 20 million years or more."

Point #2....warmer oceans outgas more than they take up...cold water holds more CO2 than warm water...open two cans of soda...one room temperature...one from the refrigerator...put the warm one on the counter..and the cold one back in the refrigerator...taste them tomorrow...you will see that the warm one is flat as a pancake...so it lost its CO2...the cold one while it will be less fizzy than when freshly opened will still be bubbly....if the oceans are warming then there is no danger of them becoming less alkaline as they are outgassing...if they are becoming cooler, then the AGW scam is proven to be a scam...how could the oceans be cooling if the earth is warming?

Refer to Henry's law...it states that the concentration of gas in liquid is proportional to the gas in equilibrium above the liquid...Henry's law assumes a constant temperature...if the temperature changes, then the rate and level of absorption changes...if the oceans warm, then they outgas...if they cool, then they take up CO2...

Nice copy and paste. Where did you get it from?

https://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/106.htm

Box 3.4: Causes of glacial/inter-glacial changes in atmospheric CO2.

"One family of hypotheses to explain glacial/inter-glacial variations of atmospheric CO2 relies on physical mechanisms that could change the dissolution and outgassing of CO2 in the ocean. The solubility of CO2 is increased at low temperature, but reduced at high salinity. These effects nearly cancel out over the glacial/inter-glacial cycle, so simple solubility changes are not the answer. Stephens and Keeling (2000) have proposed that extended winter sea ice prevented outgassing of upwelled, CO2-rich water around the Antarctic continent during glacial times. A melt-water �cap� may have further restricted outgassing of CO2 during summer (François et al., 1997). These mechanisms could explain the parallel increases of Antarctic temperature and CO2 during deglaciation. However, they require less vertical mixing to occur at low latitudes than is normally assumed. The relative importance of high and low latitudes for the transport of CO2 by physical processes is not well known, and may be poorly represented in most ocean carbon models (Toggweiler, 1999; Broecker et al., 1999)."

Point #3...your hysterical 30% more acidic amounts to 0.1 pH unit less alkaline than it was during pre industrial times...proxy studies indicate that the ocean pH has varied from 7.91 to 8.29 during the past 7000 years....that puts the natural cyclic variation more than 4 times larger than the 0.1 pH unit you seem to be so worried about.

Source

Point #4...there is no evidence that the oceans were ever acidic during the past 500 million years even when atmospheric CO2 was in excess of 6500ppm..this tells us that there is yet another controlling factor...namely the buffering action of basalt rocks on the ocean floor...when the ocean runs out of rocks, start worrying...till then hysterical handwaving doesn't make alarmism true.

None of the articles I have used has declared that atmospheric CO2 causes the acidification of the oceans save for increasing the temperatures of the oceans leading to more absorption of CO2. What you need to do is to try and undestand the definition of "acidic" as used in reference to the oceans which simply means less alkaline.
 
Source, if you have one.

How about actual knowledge of the topic....do you not have any idea when most of the modern versions of the life in the oceans evolved? It isn't hard to look up. Of course someone with no critical thinking skills might simply accept information given to them by someone whose politics agreed with their own, but no thinking person accepts information on those terms...

Show me some actual evidence that the oceans have ever been acidic...even when atmospheric CO2 levels were in excess of 6000ppm. Your link certainly contained nothing like actual evidence.. It clearly admitted that the pH has dropped 0.1 units and then made the unsubstantiated claim that it would drop more in coming centuries...it made lots of claims but had no actual evidence and completely failed to mention that during the history of the earth the oceans have never been acidic even when atmospheric CO2 was in excess of 6000ppm. You appear to be highly susceptible to alarmist claptrap...


Nice copy and paste. Where did you get it from?

Impotent insult the best you can do? I got it from chemistry way back in college....you want to claim that the laws of chemistry have changed since then?

https://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/106.htm

Box 3.4: Causes of glacial/inter-glacial changes in atmospheric CO2.

"One family of hypotheses to explain glacial/inter-glacial variations of atmospheric CO2 relies on physical mechanisms that could change the dissolution and outgassing of CO2 in the ocean. The solubility of CO2 is increased at low temperature, but reduced at high salinity. These effects nearly cancel out over the glacial/inter-glacial cycle, so simple solubility changes are not the answer. Stephens and Keeling (2000) have proposed that extended winter sea ice prevented outgassing of upwelled, CO2-rich water around the Antarctic continent during glacial times. A melt-water �cap� may have further restricted outgassing of CO2 during summer (François et al., 1997). These mechanisms could explain the parallel increases of Antarctic temperature and CO2 during deglaciation. However, they require less vertical mixing to occur at low latitudes than is normally assumed. The relative importance of high and low latitudes for the transport of CO2 by physical processes is not well known, and may be poorly represented in most ocean carbon models (Toggweiler, 1999; Broecker et al., 1999)."

The IPCC? Seriously? That is nothing more than a mind exercise based on a process that they admit that they know little about? Can you read? Can you even begin to think critically on this....or any topic? They are guessing there inventing scenarios in which "something" might happen all the while ignoring the past when ice ages happened with atmospheric CO2 in excess of 4000ppm....


Your own source... "So far, ocean pH has dropped from 8.2 to 8.1 since the industrial revolution"

None of the articles I have used has declared that atmospheric CO2 causes the acidification of the oceans save for increasing the temperatures of the oceans leading to more absorption of CO2. What you need to do is to try and undestand the definition of "acidic" as used in reference to the oceans which simply means less alkaline.

You really aren't sciency are you?...increasing temperatures according to henry's law say that increasing ocean temperature leads to out gassing, not the absorption of more CO2...the only way the oceans absorb more CO2 is if they cool...And I have the definition of acidic quite well...it is the alarmist who don't...they call less alkaline more acidic which is not true....there is a boundary between acid and alkaline...till the boundary is crossed the acidic material becomes more or less acidic, not more alkaline and the alkaline material becomes more or less alkaline, not more acidic...it is a misuse of terms to deliberately trick the uneducated as has clearly worked with you...the oceans have never been acidic...even when atmospheric CO2 was in excess of 6000ppm...

And again, you clearly didn't read your own article...they were explicitly claiming that increased atmospheric CO2 was responsible for ocean acidification...here are clips from your own links...

"Ocean acidification is sometimes called “climate change’s equally evil twin,” and for good reason: it's a significant and harmful consequence of excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that we don't see or feel because its effects are happening underwater."

Here, from the IPCC

"This section lists processes that may be important for the future uptake of anthropogenic CO2" I am not going to go deeper into that steaming pile because it is pure alarmism...it goes on about anthropogenic CO2 as if the oceans don't deal with natural CO2...it is titled "scientific basis" but there is little there that resembles science...in fact, they admit....."Qualitative and quantitative changes in carbon uptake arising from changes in marine ecosystems are more speculative"

For future reference...the IPCC is even worse a source that wiki...there is little science there and absolutely no observed, measured, quantified data supporting the anthropogenic component of the CAGW hypothesis.
 
How about actual knowledge of the topic....do you not have any idea when most of the modern versions of the life in the oceans evolved? It isn't hard to look up. Of course someone with no critical thinking skills might simply accept information given to them by someone whose politics agreed with their own, but no thinking person accepts information on those terms...

However, you do just that. You accept whatever comes along that supports your "politics", not reality. You want to claim "knowledge" and refer to life evolving in the oceans. However, you choose to ignore that ocean life is declining in the current times.

http://marinebio.org/oceans/threatened-endangered-species/

Show me some actual evidence that the oceans have ever been acidic...even when atmospheric CO2 levels were in excess of 6000ppm. Your link certainly contained nothing like actual evidence.. It clearly admitted that the pH has dropped 0.1 units and then made the unsubstantiated claim that it would drop more in coming centuries...it made lots of claims but had no actual evidence and completely failed to mention that during the history of the earth the oceans have never been acidic even when atmospheric CO2 was in excess of 6000ppm. You appear to be highly susceptible to alarmist claptrap...

As usual you have shown your own ignorance, and bias, which you will demonstrate in your next comment. There are three stages of chemical makeup available, acidic, neutral, and alkaline. If the numbers decrease, or increase, from the point of neutrality soil, water, air, becomes more acidic, or more alkaline. Simple to understand for the one can actually think for themselves. Now, life in the oceans depends on a certain amount of alkalinity. As that declines, and becomes more acidic, that life disappears. Doesn't matter if the alkaline water quality decreases to zero, and then increases in acidity. It becomes less alkaline, and thus more acidic. Even a simpleton could understand that.

Impotent insult the best you can do? I got it from chemistry way back in college....you want to claim that the laws of chemistry have changed since then?

In fact they have as knowledge of events change. However, your lack of knowledge of these changes is apparent as is tyour lack of understanding what you learned "way back in college". Even the chemical table has changed.

The IPCC? Seriously? That is nothing more than a mind exercise based on a process that they admit that they know little about? Can you read? Can you even begin to think critically on this....or any topic? They are guessing there inventing scenarios in which "something" might happen all the while ignoring the past when ice ages happened with atmospheric CO2 in excess of 4000ppm....

As with everything else, your limited knowledge of the changes in scientific knowledge hampers you from being able to exercise this "critical thinking" you believe you have.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/CO2-was-higher-in-late-Ordovician.htm
 
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However, you do just that. You accept whatever comes along that supports your "politics", not reality. You want to claim "knowledge" and refer to life evolving in the oceans. However, you choose to ignore that ocean life is declining in the current times.

Not due to any acidification, or warming...or any of the other alarmist spew that goes around...

As usual you have shown your own ignorance, and bias, which you will demonstrate in your next comment. There are three stages of chemical makeup available, acidic, neutral, and alkaline. If the numbers decrease, or increase, from the point of neutrality soil, water, air, becomes more acidic, or more alkaline. Simple to understand for the one can actually think for themselves. Now, life in the oceans depends on a certain amount of alkalinity. As that declines, and becomes more acidic, that life disappears. Doesn't matter if the alkaline water quality decreases to zero, and then increases in acidity. It becomes less alkaline, and thus more acidic. Even a simpleton could understand that.

Actually having a clue is ignorance and bias in your mind?..

The oceans are not, nor have they ever been acidic...the term acidification in relation to the ocean is blatant alarmism...nothing more. The pH of the oceans vary a great deal from season to season...and for that matter from tide to tide....life is not as fragile as you wackos seem to think it is...

The fact that you keep referencing skeptical science (SS) says a great deal about why you believe what you do...I suppose you are unaware that every alarmist notion that was ever posted there has been thoroughly debunked but they make a habit of deleting posts that they can not refute.....skeptical science is among the most dishonest blogs on the internet...but then it is never surprising in the least when someone like you references them...

You have been duped....wake up to reality...
 
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