so about hell

[dogtowner]

centuries of great art notwithstanding, I feel its quite terrible enough to ponder eternity seperated from God's love. fire and brimstone and the stuff of a million jokes seem to pale in comparison.

so is all the scary metaphor just trying to catch the attention of simpler people or are those on the down elevator better served dressing light ?

 

[Pandora]

I like all these recent threads about religion J



Thanks for starting them



I think Dante's Inferno is to blame for most of the modern ideas of hell. I also think most concepts of heaven or way off base too.



Hell is probably much more like when we are asleep but without the dreaming. Just nothing

 

[dogtowner]

I like all these recent threads about religion J



Thanks for starting them



I think Dante's Inferno is to blame for most of the modern ideas of hell. I also think most concepts of heaven or way off base too.



Hell is probably much more like when we are asleep but without the dreaming. Just nothing

and imagine just how much more nothing in the absense of God ? kind of like a home feels when a pet is lost. the hole left far exceeds the space the critter actually took up.

 

[Pandora]

and imagine just how much more nothing in the absense of God ? kind of like a home feels when a pet is lost. the hole left far exceeds the space the critter actually took up.

Nothing I would want to feel. But think about someone who is an atheist. They want no part of any kind of God. They say they will just be worm food and it’s the end and there is nothing more. I think for them they are probably right. I don’t think there will be pain or suffering for them. Just nothingness as they wanted.

Someone like me I think there will be a great deal of pain (emotional pain) because I have to be purged from a whole lot of stuff before I could ever be ready for the next level. Refined in the fire as it says in scripture… I have to face and deal with all my issues and get over them. Though I agree with almost nothing of the Catholic faith, I think their concept of purgatory is better than other Christian denominations (except the old practice of buying absolution) I do not think that is done anymore though

 

[dogtowner]

Nothing I would want to feel. But think about someone who is an atheist. They want no part of any kind of God. They say they will just be worm food and it’s the end and there is nothing more. I think for them they are probably right. I don’t think there will be pain or suffering for them. Just nothingness as they wanted.

Someone like me I think there will be a great deal of pain (emotional pain) because I have to be purged from a whole lot of stuff before I could ever be ready for the next level. Refined in the fire as it says in scripture… I have to face and deal with all my issues and get over them. Though I agree with almost nothing of the Catholic faith, I think their concept of purgatory is better than other Christian denominations (except the old practice of buying absolution) I do not think that is done anymore though

dont knwo absolution but imagine the bad surprise non-believers are in for when they discover just how tightly God has been holding them in his hand.!

 

[Pandora]

dont knwo absolution but imagine the bad surprise non-believers are in for when they discover just how tightly God has been holding them in his hand.!

I have no proof but I believe that when the events of Matt 27 vs 45-46 happened and Jesus cried out right before he died “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” It was at that moment God separated himself from his son and Jesus felt for the first time what it was like to be fully separated from God. As the sins of the world were placed on him and the presents of God was removed it had to be the worst feeling ever. He knew what was going to happen, he agreed to it but couldn’t have imagined what it would feel like. Those who do not accept the sacrifice he made for us will probably feel that awful feeling of absence but I do not think for any real length of time.



Matthew 27:45-46

New International Version (NIV)

The Death of Jesus

45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[a] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

 

[Cruella]

and imagine just how much more nothing in the absense of God ? kind of like a home feels when a pet is lost. the hole left far exceeds the space the critter actually took up.

Or a parent or spouse or child. The void is horrible.

 

[Aus22]

Nothing I would want to feel. But think about someone who is an atheist. They want no part of any kind of God. They say they will just be worm food and it’s the end and there is nothing more. I think for them they are probably right. I don’t think there will be pain or suffering for them. Just nothingness as they wanted.

Someone like me I think there will be a great deal of pain (emotional pain) because I have to be purged from a whole lot of stuff before I could ever be ready for the next level. Refined in the fire as it says in scripture… I have to face and deal with all my issues and get over them. Though I agree with almost nothing of the Catholic faith, I think their concept of purgatory is better than other Christian denominations (except the old practice of buying absolution) I do not think that is done anymore though

Pandora, I am glad you like the idea of purgatory. I think it make it easier for Catholics because few think they will go to hell a place of permanent punishment. Purgatory is a temporally state or place in which we are purify to enable us to enter heaven. It is a punishment for those without sin will go straight to heaven. However it will only be a small delay in us entering heaven.
I agree with dogtower that the main punishment of hell and purgatory is seperation from God. When we die we will long for God as He repreesent goodness.

 

[Aus22]

Nothing I would want to feel. But think about someone who is an atheist. They want no part of any kind of God. They say they will just be worm food and it’s the end and there is nothing more. I think for them they are probably right. I don’t think there will be pain or suffering for them. Just nothingness as they wanted.

Someone like me I think there will be a great deal of pain (emotional pain) because I have to be purged from a whole lot of stuff before I could ever be ready for the next level. Refined in the fire as it says in scripture… I have to face and deal with all my issues and get over them. Though I agree with almost nothing of the Catholic faith, I think their concept of purgatory is better than other Christian denominations (except the old practice of buying absolution) I do not think that is done anymore though

Please explain what you mean by absolution. Do you mean time off purgatory?

 

[Cruella]

I think tt's something a priest does to absolve you from your sins. Like forgiveness.

 

[Pandora]

I think tt's something a priest does to absolve you from your sins. Like forgiveness.

Did not does but it was for a price. The church outlawed the sale of indulgences in 1567

Though I believe in purgatory, I do not think even when the sale of indulgences were legal it ever actually worked. If anything I think it had to be terribly offensive in Gods eyes.

I do not believe that a priest can forgive you for your sins or has any part in it. Or telling a priest about your sins is any better than me telling you about my sins



Aussie I don’t think it got you time off purgatory I think it was just free tickets to sin if you paid the $$ price in advance. But that was done when the church was at her most corrupt. It’s illegal now

 

[dogtowner]

never really saw the point of purgatory myself. If you've allowed Christ to take your sins upon himself then that is enough.

re Christ's moment of doubt, you have a very interesting insight there and I think I may just agree with it. I will certainly be thinking on it further.

 

[Pandora]

never really saw the point of purgatory myself. If you've allowed Christ to take your sins upon himself then that is enough.

re Christ's moment of doubt, you have a very interesting insight there and I think I may just agree with it. I will certainly be thinking on it further.

Purgatory is not about paying a cost for your sins. It’s about being purified. Like gold. If our behavior could save us we would not need Jesus’s sacrifice, you agree I think.



I don’t know what your personal issues are but here is a list of mine



Prideful

Hot temper

Passive aggressive

Stubborn

Bossy

Like to win

Like to be right

Like to argue

I might have jealousy, I’m still trying to figure out if I have that one or not

I can be spiteful

And I am sure there is much much more



But none of those qualities can come with me to the next place… If we bring those things with us the next place wouldn’t be any better than this place. Like gold I need to be refined in the fire till all that remains of me is the pure and good parts that moves on to the next place.



There won’t be any room for jealousy or bossiness or a stubborn attitude. I must be rid of that first. But time in purgatory or being purged from my inadequacies doesn’t make me saved, Jesus’s sacrifice did that. It’s not about being saved it’s about being refined.













Zechariah 13:9

New International Version (NIV)

9 This third I will put into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God. ’”



There are other references besides this one regarding purifying us but I just got off work and I’m dead dog tired J I could look some up later

 

[dogtowner]

Purgatory is not about paying a cost for your sins. It’s about being purified. Like gold. If our behavior could save us we would not need Jesus’s sacrifice, you agree I think.


I don’t know what your personal issues are but here is a list of mine
Prideful Hot temper Passive aggressive Stubborn Bossy Like to win Like to be right Like to argueI might have jealousy, I’m still trying to figure out if I have that one or not I can be spiteful And I am sure there is much much more


But none of those qualities can come with me to the next place… If we bring those things with us the next place wouldn’t be any better than this place. Like gold I need to be refined in the fire till all that remains of me is the pure and good parts that moves on to the next place.


There won’t be any room for jealousy or bossiness or a stubborn attitude. I must be rid of that first. But time in purgatory or being purged from my inadequacies doesn’t make me saved, Jesus’s sacrifice did that. It’s not about being saved it’s about being refined.


Zechariah 13:9

New International Version (NIV)

9 This third I will put into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God. ’”



There are other references besides this one regarding purifying us but I just got off work and I’m dead dog tired J I could look some up later

yes I get your point but Jesus takes all that from me. pre-Christ then maybe purification was important. For me, not any more.

 

[Aus22]

Nothing I would want to feel. But think about someone who is an atheist. They want no part of any kind of God. They say they will just be worm food and it’s the end and there is nothing more. I think for them they are probably right. I don’t think there will be pain or suffering for them. Just nothingness as they wanted.

Someone like me I think there will be a great deal of pain (emotional pain) because I have to be purged from a whole lot of stuff before I could ever be ready for the next level. Refined in the fire as it says in scripture… I have to face and deal with all my issues and get over them. Though I agree with almost nothing of the Catholic faith, I think their concept of purgatory is better than other Christian denominations (except the old practice of buying absolution) I do not think that is done anymore though

Pandora. Indulgence was just a short cut for penance. If you recieved one it was equivelent to say 10 years penance. It could only work if you were sincere. Only God knew this. So no priest could promise anything. The scandal of some priest promising indulgence for donations to the building of St Peters was a major reason for martin Luther Reformation. The Church has also reform . Although indulgence still exist they are rare and can not be bought.
I do not use indulgence or even much penance o expect to go to purgatory.