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Obama's Fiscal Cliff

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Cruella, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. Gipper Well-Known Member

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    Yes I believe the Ds have intended all along to go over the cliff. BO's ludicrous budget proposal, which his media ignored, was so disingenuous that it revealed his intentions. Much of the MSM will blame the Rs, just as the Ds and BO will do....and amazingly many ignorant Americans will believe the deceptions.

    Going over the cliff is every Ds wet dream. The party of tax and spend is in full flourish for all to see, but apparently some do not see.
  2. dogtowner Super Moderator

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    and others choose not to see.

    taxes go up on all 52% of taxpayers as opposed to a couple % so the chances of actually seeing some of that tax money is much better. the military gets cut which the left leadership craves. whats not to like ?

    and its all brought to you by the "compromise" everyone says they want until they notice their butts are bleeding money again.

    compromise is the worst thing to ever happen to Congress.
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  3. cashmcall Well-Known Member

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  4. Gipper Well-Known Member

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  5. Gipper Well-Known Member

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    The Cloward-Piven strategy appears to working perfectly....
  6. dogtowner Super Moderator

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    not so sure those people in that 10% bracket are going to be happy to see thst 50% jump to 15%.
    clearly bo cares more about increasing taxes on all tax payers than the middle class. the parasites will be estatic.

    wonder if people will sit down and shut up over this ?
  7. Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    A tax on the top will in no way, shape, or form produce any significant revenue at all so if his goal is to raise revenue then his ONLY option is to see it raised on everyone. In fact I think I saw that a 100% tax on the those earning over 10 million would generate 24 days worth of revenue. In fact, according to this:

    " Let's move the bogey down to $200,000 in income. That's even lower than the $250,000-earners President Obama thinks should pay more. What happens if we confiscate 100% of all the income for people who make more than $200K? The IRS received 3,924,490 tax returns showing an income over $200K. These returns represent a total income of $1.964 trillion! That's a huge amount of money. But it's still not enough. The federal government is spending about double that this year".

    I believe he would be happy to see taxes raised on the rich only because that supports the class warfare that he so handily engages in. I believe he would also be happy to see taxes go up on everyone because that supports the statist agenda he loves. After all it is now while his administration is running most things that the gov is printing money by the billions in a clandestine tax on the poor otherwise known as QE 1 2 and 3.. I believe that progressives here do not even see statist as a bad word.
  8. dogtowner Super Moderator

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    he knows that his feint to "tax the rich" will queer any deal soo he gets the broad based and massive tax increases he wants.

    saw the other day we borrowed 50b more last month taking it to 170b which puts us on track for a two TRILLION deficit this year instead of the one and a half.

    got to just say no to any debt limit increase.
  9. Cruella Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to QE 4. Bernanke, in addition to the QE 40 billion a month he has been printing, he has now added an additional 45 billion he's also printing monthly, which he said he's going to do for the next 3 years.

    QE4 Is Here: Bernanke Delivers $85B-A-Month Until Unemployment Falls Below 6.5% - Forbes
  10. dogtowner Super Moderator

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  11. Cruella Well-Known Member

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    I don't get how it works. If he's printing money to the tune of trillions every year, how does that help anyone? What is it doing to the value of the dollar?
  12. Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    There are just some realities in life that are so eggregeous that it is appalling no one seems to care.

    -the gov printing money as a hidden tax on everyone including the poor
    -the 1 in 2 lifetime risk of getting cancer that was once way lower
    -the huge number of people who die from heart attacks that were once so rare that the inventor of the ER EKG was told to abandon his machine because no one needed it.
    -the socialism that passes as social democracy

    the elephants are too numerous
  13. Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    It is making it so that it costs almost five dollars to buy a gallon of gas.
  14. dogtowner Super Moderator

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    its devaluing the dollar. some of the effect is concealed because of the recession in euroland and slowdown elsewhere.
    its also serving as currency manipulationthat we take issue with china doing.
    it makes the msrkets less free and is a game you cannot win.
    ask zimbabwe...
  15. cashmcall Well-Known Member

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    Despite all the political rhetoric today about how nobody's taxes will be raised, except for "the rich," inflation transfers a percentage of everybody's wealth to a government that expands the money supply. Moreover, inflation takes the same percentage from the poorest person in the country as it does from the richest.

    That's not all. Income taxes only transfer money from your current income to the government, but it does not touch whatever money you may have saved over the years. With inflation, the government takes the same cut out of both.

    It is bad enough when the poorest have to turn over the same share of their assets to the government as the richest do, but it is grotesque when the government puts a bigger bite on the poorest. This can happen because the rich can more easily convert their assets from money into things like real estate, gold or other assets whose value rises with inflation. But a welfare mother is unlikely to be able to buy real estate or gold. She can put a few dollars aside in a jar somewhere. But wherever she may hide it, inflation can steal value from it without having to lay a hand on it.

    No wonder the Federal Reserve uses fancy words like "quantitative easing," instead of saying in plain English that they are essentially just printing more money.

    The biggest and most deadly "tax" rate on the poor comes from a loss of various welfare state benefits-- food stamps, housing subsidies and the like-- if their income goes up.

    Some government policies help some people at the expense of other people. But some policies can hurt welfare recipients, the taxpayers and others, all at the same time, even though in different ways.

    Why? Because some are too easily impressed by lofty political rhetoric and too little interested in the reality behind the words.
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  16. Cruella Well-Known Member

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    So if it's like a hidden inflation, what would our inflation rate be now, had they not printed the money? I don't think Carter printed money (or did he?). but his interest rates were insanely high.

    Also, what is the relationship between inflation and interest rates?
  17. Gipper Well-Known Member

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    Yes the inflationary policies of the Fed are harmful, but not to everyone. According to this, the super wealthy benefit handsomely.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012...-the-little-guy-and-the-american-economy.html
  18. Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    If a group of people enter an orchard and some benefit more due to their own diligence, hard work and wits then their efforts are to be applauded. If access to the orchard is made available only to those who can figure out when the secret gates are unlocked due to their previous position in life then that is unfair.

    In both instances some people just take advantage of what all could have taken advantage of. But in the first (free market analogy) the playing field is level, in the second (it matters who you know and who you are analogy) the playing field is not. Dems often talk about a level playing field but never attempt to achieve one, intead they strive for more control over how the field is made unlevel.
  19. Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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  20. dogtowner Super Moderator

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    if you artificially increase the money supply AND artificially lower interest rstes then you make inflation artificially low.
    Carter did not but those circumstances would have rendered doing so ineffective.

    they are almost directly connected but manipulation is possible.

    until such time as when the piper has to paid. then you have the collapse ala Zimbabwe.

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