Obamacare: Eugenics

[OldTrapper]

Some legislators in Utah say yes.

http://jezebel.com/5479032/the-next-anti choice-target-miscarriage

I must admit, it is consistent with the view that life begins at conception, and killing a zygote at any stage is tantamount to killing a baby.

That's not what they are saying at all, and your link is based on pro-abortion supporters hysteria just as it is in any other case where one tries to correct a mistake at law. In the Utah case the woman could not be charged with a crime for the attempt to kill her unborn child even though she hired someone to do it. However, the child lived, and was adopted out. Since the child was not killed the man could only be charged with "child endangerment" of which he was convicted, and sent to jail. If the child had died he could have been charged with homicide, or even murder. The woman went scott free.

http://www.abc4.com/news/local/stor...aw-would-redefine/cdkcotdTvUWjZSfjmSnLAQ.cspx

 

[GenSeneca]

i dont buy the whole Living, DNA, Human = person with individual rights

You didn't answer my question:

As an abortion supporter, should taxpayers be forced to subsidize, or foot the bill entirely, for abortions?

As for the life of an individual begining at conception, make your case that at conception we are not alive, that we are not individuals and we are not human.

 

[TVoffBrainOn]

You didn't answer my question:

As an abortion supporter, should taxpayers be forced to subsidize, or foot the bill entirely, for abortions?

As for the life of an individual begining at conception, make your case that at conception we are not alive, that we are not individuals and we are not human.

there's no need for you to change the topic. im curious what happens when science catches up, as it inevitably will, and can determine scientifically what caused a miscarriage. If you give individual rights to zygotes, then you will inevitably be infringing on the rights of the mother. if it is scientifically provable that something a mother chose to do, caused the miscarriage, then you are stuck in the dilemma of charging mothers with murder for miscarriages

What is the difference between the living Human DNA in my hair follicle, and the living human DNA in a zygote? living human DNA does not make something an individual person. the difference between the follicle and the zygote is that the zygote has the potential to BECOME a person. therefore it is not yet a person. it is not an individual person, it is the biological soup. the broccoli, eggs, croutons, butter, cheese and mayo have the potential to be something... but its not a casserole until it bakes in the oven.

As for your question. i have no answer. im not an abortion supporter. im a women's rights supporter. abortion is not an issue to me really. i dont think its a big deal. abortions are legal.

i think we should promote birth control and condoms, instead of failed policies of promoting abstinence.

 

[GenSeneca]

there's no need for you to change the topic.

I created the topic because the legislation being proposed wants taxpayers to pay for abortions... That is the topic... despite participants having veered into discussions about abortion in general.

What is the difference between the living Human DNA in my hair follicle, and the living human DNA in a zygote?

Do you really not know the answer to this question?

When tested, the DNA from your hair follicle will be identicle to DNA tested from any other part of your body, because it's your DNA, distinctly unique to you as an individual. The DNA of a human zygote is unique, it is an individual, the DNA is not identicle to either the mother or father.

As for your question. i have no answer.

It's a yes or no question, should taxpayers be forced to pay for abortions? I could understand if you were unsure as to whether taxpayers should pay for abortions but I find it difficult to believe you have no answer, or opinion, as to the subject.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I created the topic because the legislation being proposed wants taxpayers to pay for abortions...

....Much like ALL taxpayers are expected to finance Wars....whether they want to, or not.

Which procedure is having the greater-impact on the human-population?? (...And, yes....non-Whites count.)


​

 

[PLC1]

there's no need for you to change the topic. im curious what happens when science catches up, as it inevitably will, and can determine scientifically what caused a miscarriage. If you give individual rights to zygotes, then you will inevitably be infringing on the rights of the mother. if it is scientifically provable that something a mother chose to do, caused the miscarriage, then you are stuck in the dilemma of charging mothers with murder for miscarriages

(note: I quoted TVoff, but I'm really responding to Genseneca. I think He'll figure that out anyway.)

Science already has caught up. A couple that is having trouble conceiving a baby go to a fertility clinic, where the fertilization is done in vitrio. Thanks to modern science, that couple has a baby, maybe two or three that are born and are new human beings with all of the rights and privileges that implies.

However.

In the process of creating that new human, several zygotes have been created as well. They are destroyed, as they are no longer needed.

Now, tell us: Do those zygotes have human rights as well? Should that couple be held responsible for their deaths? Should the procedure of in vitrio be outlawed in order to preserve lives that otherwise would never have been?

I say no (but you knew that already) as those zygotes are not human beings, but only potential ones that never got a chance to be. It is the baby, or perhaps babies, who would not have been born otherwise that are the winners in this scenario. Would you deny them the chance of living?

 

[Gipper]

"We are repeatedly being told that we need to have a government-controlled medical care system, because other countries have it -- as if our policies on something as serious as medical care should be based on the principle of monkey see, monkey do." --economist Thomas Sowell

 

[TVoffBrainOn]

I created the topic because the legislation being proposed wants taxpayers to pay for abortions... That is the topic... despite participants having veered into discussions about abortion in general.


Do you really not know the answer to this question?

When tested, the DNA from your hair follicle will be identicle to DNA tested from any other part of your body, because it's your DNA, distinctly unique to you as an individual. The DNA of a human zygote is unique, it is an individual, the DNA is not identicle to either the mother or father.


It's a yes or no question, should taxpayers be forced to pay for abortions? I could understand if you were unsure as to whether taxpayers should pay for abortions but I find it difficult to believe you have no answer, or opinion, as to the subject.

i guess i would reply if you weren't selective in your responses...

if the zygote is an individual at conception, then twins are not individuals.

im really curious what you think happens when science can determine exactly what caused an abortion? have you ever thought about that? or would you like to avoid that issue until its an unintended consequence...

 

[TVoffBrainOn]

i guess i would reply if you weren't selective in your responses...

if the zygote is an individual at conception, then twins are not individuals.

im really curious what you think happens when science can determine exactly what caused an abortion? have you ever thought about that? or would you like to avoid that issue until its an unintended consequence...

my mistake

im really curious what you think happens when science can determine exactly what caused a miscarriage? have you ever thought about that? or would you like to avoid that issue until its an unintended consequence...

 

[GenSeneca]

....Much like ALL taxpayers are expected to finance Wars....whether they want to, or not.

Which procedure is having the greater-impact on the human-population?? (...And, yes....non-Whites count.)


​

Abortion kills 1 million a year. In seven years of war in two countries, we have lost around 5,000 soldiers.

That's 7,000,000 from abortion and 5,000 from war, since your are mathmatically challenged, the number with more zeros is larger and therefore has the greater impact.

Aside from that, soldiers choose to be soldiers, the unborn do not have a choice as to whether or not they are aborted.

 

[GenSeneca]

Do those zygotes have human rights as well?

They have not attached themselves to the uteran wall and therefore would die as a natural consequence which is the fault of no one.

 

[GenSeneca]

i guess i would reply if you weren't selective in your responses....

So ask a question that's related to the topic of forcing taxpayers to pay for abortions.

if the zygote is an individual at conception, then twins are not individuals.

Whether they are identicle twins or fraternal twins, their DNA is distinctly different from the DNA of the parents, making them unique individuals.

 

[TVoffBrainOn]

So ask a question that's related to the topic of forcing taxpayers to pay for abortions.


Whether they are identicle twins or fraternal twins, their DNA is distinctly different from the DNA of the parents, making them unique individuals.

if they are identical, then their DNA is not different from each other, so by your standard definition of what a person is, they are not individual people. So if DNA is the basis for individualism, then a crime against one twin, would be a crime against the other as well.

there are philosophical repercussions to the scientific basis of your ideology.

again....im really curious what you think happens when science can determine exactly what caused a miscarriage? have you ever thought about that? or would you like to avoid that issue until its an unintended consequence...

 

[GenSeneca]

if they are identical, then their DNA is not different from each other, so by your standard definition of what a person is, they are not individual people. So if DNA is the basis for individualism, then a crime against one twin, would be a crime against the other as well.

Identical Twins Not As Identical As Believed

“The presumption has always been that identical twins are identical down to their DNA,” said Carl Bruder, Ph.D. and Jan Dumanski, Ph.D., of UAB’s Department of Genetics and the study’s lead authors. “That’s mostly true, but our findings suggest that there are small, subtle differences due to CNV.” ​

They are both unique individuals. While their DNA is almost an exact duplicate, there are variations that cause distinct differences. For example, identical twins do not have the same fingerprints.

But the important part, and the part you are choosing to ignore, is that their DNA distinguishes them as separate and unique individuals from their parents... Which is why plucking a hair follicle from your head is not analogous to plucking an unborn child from your womb.

 

[TVoffBrainOn]

Identical Twins Not As Identical As Believed

“The presumption has always been that identical twins are identical down to their DNA,” said Carl Bruder, Ph.D. and Jan Dumanski, Ph.D., of UAB’s Department of Genetics and the study’s lead authors. “That’s mostly true, but our findings suggest that there are small, subtle differences due to CNV.” ​

They are both unique individuals. While their DNA is almost an exact duplicate, there are variations that cause distinct differences. For example, identical twins do not have the same fingerprints.

But the important part, and the part you are choosing to ignore, is that their DNA distinguishes them as separate and unique individuals from their parents... Which is why plucking a hair follicle from your head is not analogous to plucking an unborn child from your womb.

interesting...

So when you institute laws that give individual rights to zygotes, and science catches up and can determine beyond the shadow of a doubt that something a mother chose to do of our her freedom, caused her to miscarriage, is the mother charged with murder?

I find it odd that someone who has the answer for everything has ignored this question 4 times.

All political ideologies have unintended consequences.