Obamacare: Eugenics

Since my comments are on topic and in response to the absurdity coming from your ilk Gen, I can only conclude that you saying I'm derailing the topic is actually you complaining that I successfully derailed the momentum of your defense of the absurd.

Really, why should you be able to force me to provide paved roads for you to drive on when my vehicle can drive an any unpaved track in any conditions? Why should I subsidize your lifestyle of choosing a 2 x 4 towncar?

In the reverse, why shouldn't you be forced to pay for a segement of the population's healthcare when that segment being unhealthy has historically proven to be unhealthy for everyone including you?

That is, spot on topic muchacho..the defense of the absurd..
:rolleyes:

Again... *sigh*... because listed among the enumerated powers is the authority to post roads. Forcing me to pay for the life style choices of other people is however NOT in there.

If you don't like the constitution, or if you think it needs heavy revision, then just be honest about it, and make your case. Stop trying to twist and obfuscate the obvious meaning of the framers to support a level of governmental authority that is directly contrary to what the constitution lays out.
 
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No, public funding of abortion is not an acceptable role of the federal government. The government has no business taking my money and yours to pay for something that we disagree with.

That goes for wars as well, but that's yet another topic.
Ahh..so true. The GOP is all for killing fetuses when they sprout facial hair, and especially if they speak a foreign language. Or letting them die by neglect loooonnnng before that. They want the child to be born but what happens to it after that is non of their concern.

Gotta respect that! :cool:
 
Ahh..so true. The GOP is all for killing fetuses when they sprout facial hair, and especially if they speak a foreign language. Or letting them die by neglect loooonnnng before that. They want the child to be born but what happens to it after that is non of their concern.

Gotta respect that! :cool:



Why do the left wing always, and I mean always, use this lie to try and prove that very same falsehood?

Setting aside that we have a volunteer army, "volunteering" is something the babe in the womb cannot take advantage of, it is Conservatives, or the right wing, that do more for the child after it is born then the left wing does. Conservatives are the ones who set up adoption centers, provide housing, food, etc., for unwed mothers, pay for the delivery of the child. The only concern of the left wing is to kill as many as possible before birth for the very reason that they do not want to become involved in the childs life.

Conservative women are more likely to be "stay at home" mothers, utilize home schooling to educate their children, take an interest in the curriculum of the school they may send their child to, and teach their children moral values, etc.
 
Your lack of understanding of health care in this nation as it currently stands makes having an intelligent discussion with you difficult. Perhaps you were unaware that nobody in America can currently be denied treatment at a hospital? So spare me your apocalyptic predictions which you imagine justify economic slavery.


Only to the point of making them "stable". Beyond that the hospital has no obligation. Doesn't mean that many don't take advantage of it though.
 
Why do the left wing always, and I mean always, use this lie to try and prove that very same falsehood?

Setting aside that we have a volunteer army, "volunteering" is something the babe in the womb cannot take advantage of, it is Conservatives, or the right wing, that do more for the child after it is born then the left wing does. Conservatives are the ones who set up adoption centers, provide housing, food, etc., for unwed mothers, pay for the delivery of the child. The only concern of the left wing is to kill as many as possible before birth for the very reason that they do not want to become involved in the childs life.

Conservative women are more likely to be "stay at home" mothers, utilize home schooling to educate their children, take an interest in the curriculum of the school they may send their child to, and teach their children moral values, etc.

It's useful to note that the GOP National Committee has health insurance for its employees that pays for abortions.
 
Thanks for providing that link OT.

From the link, here is the actual description of how that transpired and the obvious manuever of the GOP to make themselves look like they're [suddenly now] concerned about abortion issues [to abort the public health Bill that ironically will save human life..].

'Chagrined' GOP chair ends abortion insurance for employees

Even though his own views towards abortion have moderated over the years, RNC chair Michael Steele didn't waste any time taking care of the latest Republican albatross.

"A chagrined GOP Chairman Michael Steele has told Republican National Committee staff to immediately stop providing RNC employees with insurance for elective abortions — an option that Republicans strongly oppose as Democrats try to pass a health care overhaul bill," the Associated Press reports.

"Money from our loyal donors should not be used for this purpose," Steele said in a statement released late Thursday. "I don't know why this policy existed in the past, but it will not exist under my administration. Consider this issue settled."

Steele faced widespread criticism earlier this year after he called abortion an "individual choice." He later "walked it back," as Politico's Ben Smith noted, by claiming that "I am pro-life, always have been, always will be."

Again OT, thanks for the link to show the "convenient-morality" crowd's true colors...
:rolleyes:
 
What's "useful" to note is that you "tweaked" the story, your version anyway, and left out most of the facts as usual.

The RNC dropped that option, while the DNC still carries it.

http://rawstory.com/2009/2009/11/gop-health-insurance-abortions/

Yes, they did, but only after being held up to public ridicule for being hypocritical. The DNC wasn't the least bit hypocritical and still carries it, but then, it's legal, isn't it? Just because you and I don't like it doesn't mean that we have the right to force everyone to obey OUR consciences.
 
Yes, they did, but only after being held up to public ridicule for being hypocritical. The DNC wasn't the least bit hypocritical and still carries it, but then, it's legal, isn't it? Just because you and I don't like it doesn't mean that we have the right to force everyone to obey OUR consciences.


Actually, you are forcing others to "obey" YOUR conscience, or the lack thereof, when you make it legal contrary to the wishes of the majority of the people, and when you attempt to force others to pay for it through federal funds.

Next, the policy was taken out in 1991, and it was an "opt out" elective, not an "opt for" elective. Obviously someone missed it.

Then too, it is obvious that most members did not even know it was in the policy. Since it is a group thing a reading of the policy by all members is not required.

Finally, when Steele found out about it, it was removed.

The final difference here between you, and me, is I don't like it, and you show you do by your defense of it.
 
Actually, you are forcing others to "obey" YOUR conscience, or the lack thereof, when you make it legal contrary to the wishes of the majority of the people, and when you attempt to force others to pay for it through federal funds.
So if the people voted to re-enslave the blacks that would make it right? You are denying equality to people you don't like, I am not. You are claiming for yourself rights and privileges that you deny to others because you don't approve of them. That's hypocrisy, DOT.

Your if them statement is fallacious, just because I don't wish to ram my religion down the throats of everyone else--like you are willing to do--does not mean that I approve of what others do. You seem to want a theocracy based on what YOU believe and you want laws to force everyone to kowtow to your religious tenets. Do you realize that makes you no different than Ayatollah Khamenei?

You don't own gay people, you don't own their lives, you don't speak for God in their lives, and you should not be trying to punish them because they don't live in accordance with your beliefs. Beliefs of which you have no proof, by the way. The Bible is an old book with no discernible connection to the Creator of the Universe aside from what all books have.
 
Finally, when Steele found out about it, it was removed
Down goes OT's credibility with a flush!

We're supposed to believe that the chairman of the GOP somehow didn't know that its members had an option for abortion in their medical coverage? I suppose it is a remote possibility. Just like he recently condemned the powerpoint display courting donors that explicity outlined the GOP strategy and disdain for its own members that we've all known about for ages.

The right hand doesn't know what the left is up to. Accountability escaped. But credibility sinks. There ain't anything for free..
 
Only to the point of making them "stable". Beyond that the hospital has no obligation. Doesn't mean that many don't take advantage of it though.

Right, that's what I'm saying. He was arguing that we need this health care in order to prevent disease, and how that is beneficial to society as a whole. I was saying that hospitals will already prevent the spread of disease. I was not making the claim that hospitals will perform free open heart surgery.
 
So if the people voted to re-enslave the blacks that would make it right? You are denying equality to people you don't like, I am not. You are claiming for yourself rights and privileges that you deny to others because you don't approve of them. That's hypocrisy, DOT.


Strange how it is only you, and those like you, that even suggest a return to slavery.

As to equality, how is it "equal" when you force others to accept your view of moral behaviour? If I owned a business what is it to you who I hire? If people don't like my policies they are free to shop elsewhere. What gives you the right to dictate to me who I should hire?

Your if them statement is fallacious, just because I don't wish to ram my religion down the throats of everyone else--like you are willing to do--does not mean that I approve of what others do. You seem to want a theocracy based on what YOU believe and you want laws to force everyone to kowtow to your religious tenets. Do you realize that makes you no different than Ayatollah Khamenei?


Again you rely on a lie. I have never proposed a theocracy, or supported one. IMO God, through Christ, will establish His rule on earth following the tribulation period.

However, YOU are not satisfied with the traditional morality that the country has enjoyed since its foundation. Thus YOU are the one forcing your own belief of what is moral, or not moral, on others. Then when traditionalists oppose your actions, and the teaching of those "morals" to our children, and we are the majority still, then you lie, and say that it is we who are trying to force our beliefs on others.

So, who is the "Ayatollah"?

You don't own gay people, you don't own their lives, you don't speak for God in their lives, and you should not be trying to punish them because they don't live in accordance with your beliefs. Beliefs of which you have no proof, by the way. The Bible is an old book with no discernible connection to the Creator of the Universe aside from what all books have.


No one is trying to "punish" gay people. Repeating that lie will not make it anymore true.

When you speak of "proof" you have no proof from any study done, the genome code, or any other source, that homosexuality is a natural trait. The best you can do is claim that certain animals participate in similar behaviour. There are some studies that have indicated some events in the birthing process, such as testosterone levels, may contribute to the deviancy, or even environmental factors. However, you have no proof that the behaviour is anymore then one of choice. Even the "twin studies" do not support your belief.

So, while you try to BS your way through the topic, it is just that. BS.
 
Strange how it is only you, and those like you, that even suggest a return to slavery.

They aren't just suggesting it, they are advocating for it... Unlike the past when people were made slaves based upon their skin color, these "enlightened" Progressives wish to enslave people based on ability - To each according to his need, from each according to his ability.
 
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Strange how it is only you, and those like you, that even suggest a return to slavery.
You are the one advocating that we allocate rights by popular vote. That would mean that the majority could vote away equal rights but still require those who are "less than" to pay an equal portion of taxes. That's slavery, ask Genseca.

As to equality, how is it "equal" when you force others to accept your view of moral behaviour? If I owned a business what is it to you who I hire? If people don't like my policies they are free to shop elsewhere. What gives you the right to dictate to me who I should hire?
You've mixed two subjects here. In the first sentence you ask about moral behavior. No one is forcing you to change your opinion--it's your right to hate. But it is not your right to persecute those you hate. Nor is it your right to force those you hate to obey YOUR relgious tenets. Somehow you have gotten the idea that you have some God-given RIGHT to pass laws to force your beliefs on others--no one is doing that to you. No one is suggesting laws to make you behave gay or to like gays, you get to keep and cling to all your antiquated hates and fears, the law just doesn't let you beat others with them. Giving gays equal rights does nothing to you, your religion, or your right to hate.

The Constitution guarantees equality for all. You don't like that, you WANT to discriminate and thereby punish those who don't live as you think they should. This is an especially important provision of the Constitution when there is a huge majority that hates a tiny minority--we need some way to protect the minority from the depredations of the majority. In this case you just happen to be in the majority. Turn it around, pretend that you were the one on the receiving end of the hatred you express, would you feel that those people were following the Love Others As Yourself rule of Jesus?

Again you rely on a lie. I have never proposed a theocracy, or supported one. IMO God, through Christ, will establish His rule on earth following the tribulation period.
When you advocate laws to force others to obey YOUR religious beliefs that is the hallmark of theocracy.

However, YOU are not satisfied with the traditional morality that the country has enjoyed since its foundation. Thus YOU are the one forcing your own belief of what is moral, or not moral, on others. Then when traditionalists oppose your actions, and the teaching of those "morals" to our children, and we are the majority still, then you lie, and say that it is we who are trying to force our beliefs on others.
Slavery was traditional in the country's founding time, so was the ownership of women, preventing women from voting, denying women the right to own property, and the indiscriminate slaughter of the indigenous peoples. In some places killing women for adultery, female circumsicision and genital mutilation are traditional, does that make them right?

I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone, I am asking for the same right to believe what I believe as you have, and the same right to live my life according to my beliefs as you have to live according to your beliefs. Gay people having the right to marry has no effect on you or your marriage, does it? What effect do you think it has?

So, who is the "Ayatollah"?
Look it up. How can you have a Doctorate in Theology and not know the term "Ayatollah"?

No one is trying to "punish" gay people. Repeating that lie will not make it anymore true.
What are you trying to do then? Wouldn't it feel like punishment to you if YOU were denied marriage because gay people didn't think you were worthy of it?

When you speak of "proof" you have no proof from any study done, the genome code, or any other source, that homosexuality is a natural trait. The best you can do is claim that certain animals participate in similar behaviour. There are some studies that have indicated some events in the birthing process, such as testosterone levels, may contribute to the deviancy, or even environmental factors. However, you have no proof that the behaviour is anymore then one of choice. Even the "twin studies" do not support your belief.
Actually, it isn't PROOF, but evidence. Are you an American? Do you recall that a person is innocent until proven GUILTY in our system of jurisprudence? Right now gay people are being denied equality with NO PROOF of guilt. Any worthless, scum-sucking, drug-dealing, wife-beating, child molestor on death row can marry is he can find a willing mate--but gay people can't, that's justice?

There is a mountain of evidence to show that homosexuality is a natural variation in sexual behavior in almost all the higher animals. I can supply you with the material, but would you read it? No, probably not. And the reason that you think the twin studies don't support the genetic basis for homosexuality is due to the fact that you don't have enough scientific education and you think that "identical twins" are identical. I can give you a source that talks about the biological basis of homosexuality in a video presentation by Dr. Cynthia Chappelle, a researcher who has two sons, one of whom is gay.

So, while you try to BS your way through the topic, it is just that. BS.

Your refusal to learn is hardly BS on my part. Your education is lacking in some areas as I have amply demonstrated on other threads. Pony up, DOT, learn about the science.
 
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