Obama vows to send 'clear message' to Putin, warns Trump

[Old_Trapper70]

Where has anyone suggested we would be better off as you suggest ?

Trump did. But you actually had to listen to him:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2016/11/06/trump-and-authoritarian-propaganda/#60853d791283

"What then is to be done about a fictitious narrative that has seduced the American electorate to such an extent that tens of millions are willing to vote for a candidate who, according to the New York Times editorial board “stands for torture, reckless war, unchecked greed, hatred of women, immigrants, refugees, people of color, people with disabilities; a sexual predator, a business fraud, a liar who runs on a promise to destroy millions of immigrant families and to jail his political opponent”?

Reason and arguments will not dispel the narrative that fuels his candidacy. Debate and conversation will not remove it. The only solution, according to Arendt, is the intrusion of reality with a defeat of such forceful proportions that the fiction is no longer tenable.

“The chief disability of totalitarian propaganda is that it cannot fulfill the longing of the masses for a completely consistent, comprehensible, and predictable world without seriously conflicting with common sense.” For a time, common sense is held at bay from intruding into the cocoon of the reassuring fiction. Yet the explicit distortion of reality is also the cause of propaganda’s inevitable downfall. It is the inexorable and brutal collision with reality that eventually ruins the cocoon. It’s not a matter of whether. It’s only a question of when.

“It is in the moment of defeat,” writes Arendt, “that the inherent weakness of totalitarian propaganda becomes visible. Without the force of the movement, its members cease at once to believe in the dogma for which yesterday they still were ready to sacrifice their lives.” (Thus immediately after Germany’s defeat in the Second World War, the Allies could hardly find anyone who claimed to be a Nazi.)"

 

[PLC1]

Where has anyone suggested we would be better off as you suggest ?

Not sure about "better off", but there is ample evidence of the right wing's admiration of Putin. Here's one example:

“Obama, the perception of him and his ‘potency’ across the world is one of such weakness,” Palin said. “Look it, people are looking at Putin as one who wrestles bears and drills for oil. They look at our president as one who wears mom jeans and equivocates and bloviates.”

In recent days, Rush Limbaugh has surprised himself (so he says) by finding admirable qualities in Putin that Obama lacks. He joins the ranks of numerous social conservatives, such as Pat Buchanan, who were already Putin fans due to his support for the Russian Orthodox Church and his opposition to gay rights.

In December, Buchanan wrote a column lauding Putin for his opposition to same-sex marriage. “While his stance as a defender of traditional values has drawn the mockery of Western media and cultural elites, Putin is not wrong in saying that he can speak for much of mankind.” Buchanan wrote. “... He is seeking to redefine the ‘Us vs. Them’ world conflict of the future as one in which conservatives, traditionalists and nationalists of all continents and countries stand up against the cultural and ideological imperialism of what he sees as a decadent West.”

 

[dogtowner]

Not sure about "better off", but there is ample evidence of the right wing's admiration of Putin. Here's one example:

There are people who recognize that he is smart and an effective leader. There are people who see him play BO like a fiddle and find it funny and/or sad.
None if that necessarily means they would have the US become a socialist hell. It's just recognizing ability.
Ty Cobb was a jerk but it didn't prevent him from being a legendary ball player.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

There are people who recognize that he is smart and an effective leader. There are people who see him play BO like a fiddle and find it funny and/or sad.
None if that necessarily means they would have the US become a socialist hell. It's just recognizing ability.
Ty Cobb was a jerk but it didn't prevent him from being a legendary ball player.

How did Putin "play" Obama anymore then what happened under Bush? And just exactly what do you think a coward like Trump is going to do? He is already kissing eveyone's ass, and he isn't even sworn in yet.

http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/11/10/germanys-chancellor-just-issued-powerful-warning-pres-trump/

 

[PLC1]

There are people who recognize that he is smart and an effective leader. There are people who see him play BO like a fiddle and find it funny and/or sad.
None if that necessarily means they would have the US become a socialist hell. It's just recognizing ability.
Ty Cobb was a jerk but it didn't prevent him from being a legendary ball player.

He certainly has Trump in his back pocket. I'll give him that. Speaking of playing an American politician like a fiddle, that's a supreme example.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

There are people who recognize that he is smart and an effective leader.

You mean by killing, or imprisoning, the competition? By controlling the media? By using the military to squash others? By suppressing human rights? In that case we should elect Kim Jong Un, and you would be quite satisfied.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/putin-principle-how-it-came-rule-russia

"Elections in all new democracies suffer from problems of weak party stability, loose and fluid electoral laws, and voter manipulation and fraud. In theory and practice, these problems should decrease over time, leading to the consolidation of democratic institutions. In Russia, however, they have only increased, until in the 2011–12 electoral cycle the fraud and abuse were considered so widespread that popular demonstrations broke out. By the end of 2011, having come through a thoroughly fraudulent and publicly documented sham election for the Duma (the lower house of Russia’s Parliament), it became clear that the ability of opposition activists to seek democratic change was significantly inferior to the regime’s willingness to suppress them.

After Putin publicly wept, possibly from relief, when he was declared the winner of the 2012 presidential elections, targeted repressions began again, reminiscent of the early 1930s or the late 1960s in the USSR. Nonviolent demonstrators were once again sentenced to either prison or indefinite psychiatric treatment. With the economy suffering a downturn—mainly because of elite plundering—the crony regime’s inner logic was revealed: Putin would use force to maintain his potentially indefinite hold on power so that his group could continue to loot the country under the guise of “restoring Russian greatness,” while the opposition was able only to hold endless Internet discussions about the bespredel—the limitless and total lack of accountability of the elites."

This is what you call "smart and effective".

 

[dogtowner]

He certainly has Trump in his back pocket. I'll give him that. Speaking of playing an American politician like a fiddle, that's a supreme example.

Sure it is.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Sure it is.

Putin is playing you, Trump, and all fools just like he did Bush, and you have your head so far up Trumps ass you can't see it. Obama was the one who actually did something about Putin, and yet you think he was the one that got "played":

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/19/570634/-

 

[grumpy]

https://ricochet.com/page/2/
Russia’s power rests with being a player in the global energy sector and if we’re stupid enough to demonize carbon based fuels and reduce production, all the better for them. They are not afraid to use the energy ‘weapon’ as they’ve demonstrated in the past when they threatened to cut off supplies to Ukraine during a very cold and deadly winter. Many European countries are very dependent on Russia for energy and the deal done by Chancellor Merkel to allow expansion of the North Steam pipeline which goes entirely through Russian controlled territory will only increase this dependancy. The more energy in the pipeline-pun intended- the lower the price for Russia’s No. 1 export. The last thing Putin wanted was for Trump to be prez-elect. Look at his picks- Tillerman from Exxon to be Sec State, Perry from Texas to be Sec Energy. Look at Trump’s rhetoric on the Dakota access pipeline. A Trump presidency means carbon based energy-friendly policies. In no way is this in Russia’s interest.

 

[dogtowner]

https://ricochet.com/page/2/
Russia’s power rests with being a player in the global energy sector and if we’re stupid enough to demonize carbon based fuels and reduce production, all the better for them. They are not afraid to use the energy ‘weapon’ as they’ve demonstrated in the past when they threatened to cut off supplies to Ukraine during a very cold and deadly winter. Many European countries are very dependent on Russia for energy and the deal done by Chancellor Merkel to allow expansion of the North Steam pipeline which goes entirely through Russian controlled territory will only increase this dependancy. The more energy in the pipeline-pun intended- the lower the price for Russia’s No. 1 export. The last thing Putin wanted was for Trump to be prez-elect. Look at his picks- Tillerman from Exxon to be Sec State, Perry from Texas to be Sec Energy. Look at Trump’s rhetoric on the Dakota access pipeline. A Trump presidency means carbon based energy-friendly policies. In no way is this in Russia’s interest.

You're making sense again, our lefty friends prefer soap opera storylines.

 

[PLC1]

https://ricochet.com/page/2/
Russia’s power rests with being a player in the global energy sector and if we’re stupid enough to demonize carbon based fuels and reduce production, all the better for them. They are not afraid to use the energy ‘weapon’ as they’ve demonstrated in the past when they threatened to cut off supplies to Ukraine during a very cold and deadly winter. Many European countries are very dependent on Russia for energy and the deal done by Chancellor Merkel to allow expansion of the North Steam pipeline which goes entirely through Russian controlled territory will only increase this dependancy. The more energy in the pipeline-pun intended- the lower the price for Russia’s No. 1 export. The last thing Putin wanted was for Trump to be prez-elect. Look at his picks- Tillerman from Exxon to be Sec State, Perry from Texas to be Sec Energy. Look at Trump’s rhetoric on the Dakota access pipeline. A Trump presidency means carbon based energy-friendly policies. In no way is this in Russia’s interest.

We've come closer to energy independence in the past few years than we've ever been before, so, sure, let's stay on that path. We don't want to be dependent on Russia or on the Middle East, and that's for sure.

Two ways to go about it: Continue to exploit North American sources, and continue to explore alternative energy sources. Both are paying dividends.

What Trump will do is unknown. I'd guess he'll push for a lifting of the sanctions on Russia, giving them more power in the Ukraine and the Middle East.

 

[dogtowner]

I'm hoping he supports all forms of new energy, not just favored ones

 

[PLC1]

I'm hoping he supports all forms of new energy, not just favored ones

That would be the rational thing to do, but Trump hasn't been known for his rationality thus far.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

I'm hoping he supports all forms of new energy, not just favored ones

What have you heard about support for alternative energies? NOTHING.

What have you heard about opening up more pristine land for oil drilling? LOTS. ANWR come to to mind?

Oil, and coal, have been the "favored" forms of energy since the late 1800's, and have received trillions in subsidies, protection, and incentives. Of course, you oppose any support for alternatives.

 

[dogtowner]

That would be the rational thing to do, but Trump hasn't been known for his rationality thus far.

Well if BO was supposedly "rational" and he flat refused it then maybe some "irrational" is what we need.