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BTW, the S&P 500 fell by 6.66% today!
- Thread starter Little-Acorn
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Pandora
Well-Known Member
It feel hard on friday too. Yeah i don't like that number either!
Pandora
Well-Known Member
http://www.miseryindex.us/
Perhaps its time to break it out again??
Perhaps its time to break it out again??
ProudLefty
Well-Known Member
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Ah, right. But didn't Republicans tell us there would be no consequences? That all the concern by Democrats and business leaders was just blah-blah, nothing would happen?
Isn't it getting towards time for the Republicans to take their children to the woodshed?
Isn't it getting towards time for the Republicans to take their children to the woodshed?
Pandora
Well-Known Member
What do you mean?
Can you find some link or quote? I am not understanding what you are talking about.
Openmind
Well-Known Member
Here is a speech from Michele Bachmann at the end of June:
And another quote by John Reed:
And still another one:
Pandora
Well-Known Member
But we did raise it and we raised spending and borrowing too.
Dems said if we raise it all will be fine and it was not. We were downgraded anyways
Had we not raised it and went into default It might have been worse IDK
Openmind
Well-Known Member
Don't you see the irony of it all?
The Democrats warned that delaying raising the debt ceiling was putting our credit rating in jeopardy. . .this is why Obama and the Dems gave in (again) to the greed of the GOP, to the black mail of the "no increase in tax," and this is why the Dems gave in their share of the "sacrifice" (cuts in spending), although there was NO compromise from the Republicans. . . who were more than ready, anxious even, to NOT raise the debt ceiling and default on our debts.
The damage was already done because of the lack of compromise, and because the final "package" does NOT address our deficit efficiently. Instead of using ONLY "cuts in spending," we NEEDED to show good will as a nation, and ability to compromise from ALL sides by also raising revenues. . .both to demonstrate that our political system could act as "adults," but also because $3 trillions in cuts, ADDED to $3 trillions in increased revenues WOULD HAVE BEEN $6 trillions!
And, if we can still not reach a REAL compromise, a BALANCED compromised and attack the deficit from both the spending and the revenue sides in 6 months. . .we will be downgraded even further.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
I think we will be downgraded before 6 months
3 trillion in increased revenue as in raising taxes for the rich?
Why not instead of raising taxes we cut spending? In the real world you cut you're spending when you don't have the money, you don't ask for a credit card limit increase and then buy more stuff.
I guess I just disagree with you IF you are saying the downgrade happened because we didn't come to a deal quick enough, One of the man who did our downgrade was interviewed and he said we owe too much money, borrow too much money.
We really are in trouble when as a Nation we cant even agree to stop spending money we don't have
Openmind
Well-Known Member
What is wrong with doing both? That is what Obama and Democrats have advocated all along. . .why can't we cut spending (although that will slow the economy even further!), AND raise taxes?
In the real world. . .if you are in such terrible financial situation that you are close to bancrupcy, would you just cut your grocery bill, even to the point that your kids might go hungry? Or would just cut the visits to restaurants, and the take out pizza, and the candies, AND look for a part time second job to bring in more money. . .or sell the TV you bought on credit 6 months ago? Or give up your second car so you don't have to pay insurance on it, and you get some money back in your pocket?
No. . .in the real world, someone doesn't use a screwdriver to take down a concrete wall. . .
Pandora
Well-Known Member
Raising taxes hurts the economy too and cutting taxes brings in more money because more people are working and paying taxes. Though I do not think you are going to agree with me on that.
There is soo very much that can be cut or eliminated and only a few that are the really rich.
I wish wealthy liberals would do like Ted Turner did and give millions to the debt. He did that back in the 80s or early 90s. Instead we have people like barbra streisand and oprah who go out of their way to make sure they don't pay one dime tax more than they have to. Down to counting how many days they were in california so they only pay partial taxes. Yet they advocate for higher taxes in general.
I can't agree that some groups like me never pay a dime in federal taxes but instead get a fat check once a year, then others don't pay and don't get and some pay a little then a few pay the bulk, thats too unfair and lopsided.
pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
Raising taxes on the poor and middle class may, raising it on the richest has little impact on there spending but makes the increases overall spending. We raised taxes in the 90's...things went pretty well would you agree? Reagan had to raise them in the 80's ...did not stop the econ...
The Rich pay less as a percent of income then at any time in recent history..the gap from the rich and the poor is skyrocketing..the middle class is dying..and the Republicans have decided to place the blame on....the middle class...the middle class was for the most part Union based..and republicans went to war with them..and again are trying to place the blame on them again...
Ask yourself do you think its fair that the richest in the US pay a lower percent of there income then you or anyone on this board, or anyone most of us know? Do you think its fair that Oil Companies, companies like GE...and others get huge profits...get huge tax rebates...and move jobs overseas? These are all things Republicans have stood for...
http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/29/irs-high-income-personal-finance-taxes_0129_wealthy_americans.html
There is a class war going on...its only to bad the middle class seems to have not noticed and many support those waging war on them.
Openmind
Well-Known Member
No, cutting taxes on the wealthy doesn't make a huge difference on the economy. . cutting taxes on the middle class does. And still, not as much as unemployment benefits, and other assistance programs for the poor and lower middle class.
Why, because when a person who struggles from pay check to pay check receives even a minor windfall, that person SPENDS it immediately. . .because he/she needs that money for his/her daily living. So, that spending creates immediate demand, which if enough demand is created, it creates the need for more products, and therefore to hire people to make those products.
When a wealthy person receive a tax break, he/she will invest it in stocks. .here or abroad, or put it in a saving account and let it sleep. . .but most of it will not be spent, or may be spent on one of those world cruises, or a new Mercedes, or maybe a shopping trip to Paris, or a vacation in Thailand.
So, if 100 people receive $1,000 in "windfall," one may buy a new TV, another may buy a new fridge, an third may take his family on vacation to Myrtle beach or Disney World. . .a third may put it as a down payment on a new small car. ..the the whole $100,000 will be spent IN AMERICA, and create jobs.
That same $100,000 "windfall" going to one wealthy person will mostly be spent abroad, or kept in a saving, or invested on international stocks. Basically, the velocity of that money is much lower within the US, therefore it doesn't do as much good for the economy. And, please don't tell me this person will "create jobs!" He won't. . .not unless there is a need to produce more goods, and there is ONLY a need to produce more goods if there is a DEMAND for those goods.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
There is a ton of threads out here to show that when taxes are lower on the rich (the job makers) there is more revenue. We just have to agree to disagree even though you don't like agreeing with me
I agree about GE not paying taxes and they are obama supporters grrr!
the top ten percent of tax payers pay for almost everything, I pay for nothing that isn't fair either, why cant we just all pay the exact same percent, no deductions?
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pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
There is a ton of threads out here to show that when taxes are lower on the rich (the job makers) there is more revenue. We just have to agree to disagree even though you don't like agreeing with me
I agree about GE not paying taxes and they are obama supporters grrr!
the top ten percent of tax payers pay for almost everything, I pay for nothing that isn't fair either, why cant we just all pay the exact same percent, no deductions?
they have you fooled very well..thinking that you don't pay..you do..
taxes where higher on the rich under clinton..he created about 28 million jobs under his time..
they where far lower under Bush..he had the lowest job creation number of any recent president.
Taxes on the richest are at all time lowes...unemployment is at like 9% ( actuly higher) so where are the jobs?
its like Trickle down econ all over again...bow the to "job creators" while the only jobs are they are making are overseas...and the new maid to clean the new wing of there mansion they just paid for with the record earnings.
Also why do you point out only the GE..but not the oil companies? does Exxon not have to pay taxes because they support Republicans?
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