Why does anyone think we need "comprehensive immigration reform"???

[Little-Acorn]

An internet site recently ran a poll implying that our system was "broken", and asking, "Who has the best solution to the illegal-alien problem?" The choice of answers they offered was (a) Arizona with its new law, (b) Obama with his "comprehensive immigration reform" mantra, or (c) Not Sure.

But they left out the CORRECT answer. Actually, the people who wrote our existing Federal laws on immigration, had the best solution.

1.) No one gets in without a visa.
2.) We do whatever it takes to keep out people without visas (which includes building a fence/wall where needed and hiring enough Border Patrol to patrol it adequately).
3.) Aliens found here without a visa, through unrelated contact with law enforcement, get deported.
4.) Employers who knowingly employ illegal aliens go to jail, up to and including the CEOs if they knew or suspected it too.
5.) People who apply for visas for various reasons (marriage, relatives, political asylum, needed skills, routine-I-want-to-live-there, etc.) get screened for criminal backgrounds and/or diseases, then get visas according to set quotas. Those quotas get expanded as population or capacity to absorb immigrants expands.

Why is this so difficult?

The system isn't "broken". A perfectly good system has been in place for decades. We're just not using it! And haven't been, for many administrations now.

We don't need to change the laws (so-called "comprehensive immigration reform")

And we certainly don't need to grant amnesty to people who already broke our laws and came here illegally (so-called "path to citizenship").

We need to change the people whose job it was to enforce existing laws, who haven't been doing it... starting at the top. And replace them with people who WILL do the job they're assigned by the voters.

Why wasn't this offered in your poll of "Who has the best solution?" Because it IS the best solution. And has been for a long time.

 

[Pandora]

we need it so the left has more democrat voters

that pretty much sums it up!

 

[PLC1]

we need it so the left has more democrat voters

that pretty much sums it up!

Yes, and so that the donors to Republican campaigns get to keep their cheap labor.

The fact is that this issue hasn't been addressed in any meaningful way for the past sixty years. The situation is not as simple as it has been made out to be.

First, it is not that Democrats want to keep illegal immigration, while Republicans want to end it. That's just absurd, given recent history.

Second, who is going to pay for a fence along the southern border? If we did spend that money, who is going to keep illegals from coming in by sea or by the northern border? Who is going to make sure no one tunnels under or climbs over that expensive boondoggle?

Third, who is going to pay to deport 12 or 20 or however in the hell many millions of illegals we have here now? Who is going to take their places in the workplace? What about children born in the US, are we going to amend the Constitution? Even if we did, what about the ex post facto law?

Yes, we need to end illegal immigration, but we won't. What we'll do is use the issue for partisan wrangling. Count on it.

 

[Revere]

There is no one solution. A fence AND enforcement of already existing laws which make it unpleasant for illegals to live here go most of the way.

 

[dahermit]

we need it so the left has more democrat voters

that pretty much sums it up!

And the politicians in the South West who need the Hispanic vote, and the large farmers (Republicans ?), who need the cheap stoop labor, and the rich (Republicans ?) who want to hire gardeners, maids, and nannies at bargain prices, and the contractors (Republicans ?)who do not want to pay the going rate for constructions workers and want to hire illegal day laborers instead.

So it would seem, young, naive ideologue, that there are Republicans who are favor keeping things as they are now.

 

[Revere]

So it would seem, young, naive ideologue, that there are Republicans who are favor keeping things as they are now.

Most want them out of the country.

 

[dahermit]

Yes, and so that the donors to Republican campaigns get to keep their cheap labor.

The fact is that this issue hasn't been addressed in any meaningful way for the past sixty years. The situation is not as simple as it has been made out to be.

First, it is not that Democrats want to keep illegal immigration, while Republicans want to end it. That's just absurd, given recent history.

Second, who is going to pay for a fence along the southern border? If we did spend that money, who is going to keep illegals from coming in by sea or by the northern border? Who is going to make sure no one tunnels under or climbs over that expensive boondoggle?

Third, who is going to pay to deport 12 or 20 or however in the hell many millions of illegals we have here now? Who is going to take their places in the workplace? What about children born in the US, are we going to amend the Constitution? Even if we did, what about the ex post facto law?

Yes, we need to end illegal immigration, but we won't. What we'll do is use the issue for partisan wrangling. Count on it.

I agree to much of what you say.

National Guard stationed along the border. Close the border to all traffic, forbid Americans to enter Mexico until the Mexican government puts an obvious effort into stopping illegals instead of aiding them. Let us see how Mexico would like to live without American tourist dollars.

Freeze and seize Mexican National's money in American banks, use it to export illegals (the Mexican one's).

The work place will have to pay enough to attract the thousands of Americans who are presently unemployed. It is a myth that there is work Americans will not do. In my youth (I am retired), I worked on a garbage truck, maggots and all. There was no job I would not do for the right amount of money. The definition of a fair price is what a willing seller gets from a willing seller. The definition of a fair wage is what a will employer pays a willing employee.

Amend the Constitution so that at least one parent must be a citizen and the child born in the U.S.

If both parents are illegal, the existing children are citizens. Give the illegals a choice, leave their citizen children with American citizens or take them with you back to Mexico.

But then, I am only dreaming. These things will never happen and things will go on about as they are now.

 

[dahermit]

I agree to much of what you say.

National Guard stationed along the border. Close the border to all traffic, forbid Americans to enter Mexico until the Mexican government puts an obvious effort into stopping illegals instead of aiding them. Let us see how Mexico would like to live without American tourist dollars.

Freeze and seize Mexican National's money in American banks, use it to export illegals (the Mexican one's).

The work place will have to pay enough to attract the thousands of Americans who are presently unemployed. It is a myth that there is work Americans will not do. In my youth (I am retired), I worked on a garbage truck, maggots and all. There was no job I would not do for the right amount of money. The definition of a fair price is what a willing seller gets from a willing seller. The definition of a fair wage is what a will employer pays a willing employee.

Amend the Constitution so that at least one parent must be a citizen and the child born in the U.S.

If both parents are illegal, the existing children are citizens. Give the illegals a choice, leave their citizen children with American citizens or take them with you back to Mexico.

But then, I am only dreaming. These things will never happen and things will go on about as they are now.

Or, instead of the about and other complicated or extensive immigration reform, a single federal law could be enacted that requires a person prove that they are citizens in order to be employed, or receive any government services. If found in violation an employer would be subject to a mandatory five years in prison and a 500,000 dollar fine. When the employment dries up, the illegals (most), will go home on their own.

 

[Revere]

Or, instead of the about and other complicated or extensive immigration reform, a single federal law could be enacted that requires a person prove that they are citizens in order to be employed, or receive any government services. If found in violation an employer would be subject to a mandatory five years in prison and a 500,000 dollar fine. When the employment dries up, the illegals (most), will go home on their own.

Only if gummint cuts off services to illegals, too.

 

[Pandora]

Yes, and so that the donors to Republican campaigns get to keep their cheap labor.

The fact is that this issue hasn't been addressed in any meaningful way for the past sixty years. The situation is not as simple as it has been made out to be.

First, it is not that Democrats want to keep illegal immigration, while Republicans want to end it. That's just absurd, given recent history.

Second, who is going to pay for a fence along the southern border? If we did spend that money, who is going to keep illegals from coming in by sea or by the northern border? Who is going to make sure no one tunnels under or climbs over that expensive boondoggle?

Third, who is going to pay to deport 12 or 20 or however in the hell many millions of illegals we have here now? Who is going to take their places in the workplace? What about children born in the US, are we going to amend the Constitution? Even if we did, what about the ex post facto law?

Yes, we need to end illegal immigration, but we won't. What we'll do is use the issue for partisan wrangling. Count on it.

I cannot speak for other states, I only really know the rules here in Oregon.

It is not cheaper for an illegal mexican to build a fence for the government. We have prevailing wage here. I could hire you for 14 dollars an hour to build my person fence or the fence for my personal business but if you are going to fence anything that has to do with government, from schools to courthouse to anything else government, you are going to get prevailing wage. (three times or higher of the normal wage)

In my experience in Oregon and this dates back a long ways on this topic, illegals are not working for big companies, they are mostly working for small businesses.

When I was a kid we helped illegals come over, helped establish them by getting them housing and work. But back in those days they were very mistreated by mainstream Americans, taken advantage of and they only came to tree plant for 6 months then go home with the money they earned to take care of their families. They almost never brought their families but instead sent the money home. They were literally doing the job Americans did not want to do. This is not the case anymore. I do not offer help neither does my family anymore.

Most of the illegals I see working here are doing dry wall exc.
or small companies. and some have gotten loans from Wells Fargo to start their own landscaping business, roofing business, window washing business exc. These are jobs Americans would do. What big companies do you know that hire mostly illegals? It could be the case in other states but I sure do not see it here in Oregon. I know in some mid west state Wal-Mart got busted for hiring illegal alien janitors but it turned out that Wal-Mart contracted a legal business to clean and that small business hired the illegals, not the big company Wal-Mart.

 

[PLC1]

Or, instead of the about and other complicated or extensive immigration reform, a single federal law could be enacted that requires a person prove that they are citizens in order to be employed, or receive any government services. If found in violation an employer would be subject to a mandatory five years in prison and a 500,000 dollar fine. When the employment dries up, the illegals (most), will go home on their own.

Fining employers for hiring illegals would probably do more than anything else to end illegal immigration. I'm not so sure about sending them to jail, as the jails are already full. We need to save the space for violent offenders.

In addition to that, there needs to be a way in which people can come here to work and live legally.

I'd send those who are already here back home to get a green card, along with all of the rest who would like to come and work.

Sanctions against Mexico would just result in more poverty there, and a greater incentive to sneak across the border. Further, illegal alien and Mexican are not synonyms.

People who work, pay taxes, raise families here are assets to this country and should be allowed to come. We should be able to do a background check first and screen out felons, druggies, and gang bangers. We also should be able to limit their numbers to what we can absorb.

But, alas, the current practice of admitting whoever is able to elude the Border Patrol and survive the desert will most likely continue, resulting in cheap labor, exploitation, and more people dying in the attempt come.

 

[dahermit]

Fining employers for hiring illegals would probably do more than anything else to end illegal immigration. I'm not so sure about sending them to jail, as the jails are already full. We need to save the space for violent offenders.

I doubt that there would be a significant number or employers who would risk the prison time to effect the number of inmates.

In addition to that, there needs to be a way in which people can come here to work and live legally.

WHY!!!?

I'd send those who are already here back home to get a green card, along with all of the rest who would like to come and work.

They are not needed. The "Jobs that Americans will not do", is a myth!
Sanctions against Mexico would just result in more poverty there, and a greater incentive to sneak across the border. Further, illegal alien and Mexican are not synonyms.

Their problem, not ours. Mexican poverty is the result of a failed Mexican society. Also, for all purposes, illegal alien and Mexican are synonymous. They represent the over-whelming majority of illegals; the others are insignificant.

People who work, pay taxes, raise families here are assets to this country and should be allowed to come. We should be able to do a background check first and screen out felons, druggies, and gang bangers. We also should be able to limit their numbers to what we can absorb.

We already have people who work, pay taxes, raise families. The problem is that for every illegal employed, there is an unemployed citizen.

But, alas, the current practice of admitting whoever is able to elude the Border Patrol and survive the desert will most likely continue, resulting in cheap labor, exploitation, and more people dying in the attempt come.

No argument here.

Except that when Government fails to protect them, people will, at some point, begin to do things to protect themselves. In the desert Southwest, citizens are subject to crime, property damage to wells, irrigation pipes, etc. At some point they will being to employ ways to stop the illegals themselves. For instance, drinking water is commonly left in jugs by persons/groups sympathetic to illegals. How long will it be before anti-illegal persons/groups begin to leave poisoned water in strategic locations for the illegals to consume?

 

[PLC1]

I doubt that there would be a significant number or employers who would risk the prison time to effect the number of inmates.
WHY!!!?

Their problem, not ours. Mexican poverty is the result of a failed Mexican society. Also, for all purposes, illegal alien and Mexican are synonymous. They represent the over-whelming majority of illegals; the others are insignificant.
We already have people who work, pay taxes, raise families. The problem is that for every illegal employed, there is an unemployed citizen.
No argument here.

Except that when Government fails to protect them, people will, at some point, begin to do things to protect themselves. In the desert Southwest, citizens are subject to crime, property damage to wells, irrigation pipes, etc. At some point they will being to employ ways to stop the illegals themselves. For instance, drinking water is commonly left in jugs by persons/groups sympathetic to illegals. How long will it be before anti-illegal persons/groups begin to leave poisoned water in strategic locations for the illegals to consume?

Having a failed state on our southern border is our problem, like it or not. It is, in fact, more of a national security problem than the jihadists we've spent so many billions trying to destroy.

Further, allowing people to die crossing the desert in a desperate attempt to find a better life for themselves is a serious human rights issue and needs to be addressed.

And, how is it that this nation of immigrants should now close its borders? We need to control immigration, i.e., put an end to illegal immigration, but ending immigration altogether is another matter.

 

[dahermit]

Having a failed state on our southern border is our problem, like it or not. It is, in fact, more of a national security problem than the jihadists we've spent so many billions trying to destroy.

The Mexican government failed years ago. There is nothing we can do about it less than making them the 51st. state of the U.S., which of course would be like trying to swim with an anvil around one's neck.

Further, allowing people to die crossing the desert in a desperate attempt to find a better life for themselves is a serious human rights issue and needs to be addressed.

We have our own problems. Hundreds die in the U.S. each Winter from the effects of homelessness. Fix our problems first.

And, how is it that this nation of immigrants should now close its borders? We need to control immigration, i.e., put an end to illegal immigration, but ending immigration altogether is another matter.

A meaningless platitude. We were a nation of legall immigrants in a time when we needed immigrants.
Convince me. Why do we need any immigration whatsoever? Now, do not say, "To take the jobs Americans will not do."

 

[PLC1]

The Mexican government failed years ago. There is nothing we can do about it less than making them the 51st. state of the U.S., which of course would be like trying to swim with an anvil around one's neck.

True enough, but imposing sanctions on Mexico for supporting illegal immigration would just exacerbate the situation.

We have our own problems. Hundreds die in the U.S. each Winter from the effects of homelessness. Fix our problems first.

Now, that's just cold. Desperate people are dying of heat exhaustion and dehydration in our deserts. The situation could be fixed by securing the border and allowing legal immigration. That's a serious human rights issue.

A meaningless platitude. We were a nation of legall immigrants in a time when we needed immigrants.
Convince me. Why do we need any immigration whatsoever? Now, do not say, "To take the jobs Americans will not do."

Ask any big farmer who harvests the crops.

Maybe if we were to end the welfare state and insist that our own citizens work for a living, then we would no longer need immigrants. Are you taking bets on when that will happen?
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