The budget and medicare reform

Dr.Who

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Our union faces another threat to its integrity and this time it comes in the form of cuts to the budget.

Medicare makes up about 20% of the whole federal budget so if one wants to make cuts it is tempting to make them here. And there is talk of reducing the number of people who can claim medicare. Since the states run medicare for the feds (the dirty little way they got around the constitution) each state would be responsible for making the cuts. Arizona is thinking that they would cut parents without children and parents with children who make more money.

But medicare is supposed to be like an insurance policy not like an entitlement program. The people who pay into the system are supposed to be the same ones who collect their own money later when they retire and need medical care. These cuts would be the equivalent of an insurance company telling you that they don't plan to pay for your house fire after you have paid premiums for 30 years because you have more money in the bank than they think you should have.

These cuts would also increase the unfairness among our population as more and more money is redistributed from those who have paid in and earned the payouts to more and more people who have not paid into the system. This kinds of unfairness will eventually destroy our republic.

The solution to medicare's problem is not to make the system unfair and cheat people of the contributions they have made but to make it more fair and cut the aspects of it (added later after its inception) that make payments to people who have not paid into the system.

Yes, once the system stops making payments to people who have not paid in it will balance better. But there will still be times when the number of people who are collecting will exceed the number of people who are paying in (like right now with baby boomers). That is the nature of ponzi schemes and the only thing to do is to suck it up and live with it knowing that there will be other times when the number of people paying in will exceed the number of people collecting.

And obviously another way to fix it would be for congress to stop using the funds as their own personal bank account. Medicare funds must not be mixed with other funds.

Lastly, to really fix the system we need to reduce the payments in and the payments out gradually until the whole plan is scrapped and replaced by a new workable one. I would recommend reducing it by 1% every year for the next hundred years. Somewhere in those hundred years we can create the replacement and eliminate it sooner. Payments into private health care savings accounts that would reduce ones payments into FICA would be a good start to eliminating the program.

If we really wanted to get radical each and every state could refuse to cooperate with the feds and stop running the program. Then when it collapsed they could force the feds to return every dollar paid in back to the people who paid those dollars - with interest. Each person would then have their own money back to use for retirement. Older people who would have paid in longer would have more. Younger people would have less but would have more time to build a nest egg without the crushing burden of paying social security taxes. Of course it will never happen.
 
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we would do well to repeal the add ons passed over the years that gave out full benefit for partial or non-pay in. same applied to SS.

And repeal Medicare RX immediately.

Actually if you want to see a drop in healthcare costs overall, eliminate Medicare and Medicaid completely.
 
true, medical cost for old dead people with no money are alot cheaper....


same as you get with obamacare at no cost to the Chinese at all.

but if the gravy train is derailed, the medical biz will have to make some changes and price cutting will top the list. health care costs went through the roof as soon as the government got in the business as they are painfully easy to cheat.
 
same as you get with obamacare at no cost to the Chinese at all.

but if the gravy train is derailed, the medical biz will have to make some changes and price cutting will top the list. health care costs went through the roof as soon as the government got in the business as they are painfully easy to cheat.

and yes I am sure the "price cutting" you claim will be so great that that 80 year old on SS ( unless you take that to of course) will just open up here checkbook at pay for that lung transplant...right
 
and yes I am sure the "price cutting" you claim will be so great that that 80 year old on SS ( unless you take that to of course) will just open up here checkbook at pay for that lung transplant...right

Social security is not an entitlement program. That man is only collecting his own money back. And less than he would have had if he had invested it privately too. The Return on Investment from social security is laughable.

We can balance the budget without cutting Medicare at all.
 
and yes I am sure the "price cutting" you claim will be so great that that 80 year old on SS ( unless you take that to of course) will just open up here checkbook at pay for that lung transplant...right

As Dr. Who says, SS gives you are far worse rate of return than if you just put the money in an FDIC insured savings account.

We need to get off the idea that "touching" social security somehow means it will hurt old people.. because in reality, it most likely will make them better off.
 
As Dr. Who says, SS gives you are far worse rate of return than if you just put the money in an FDIC insured savings account.

We need to get off the idea that "touching" social security somehow means it will hurt old people.. because in reality, it most likely will make them better off.

I would add that, statistically speaking, old people are a lot wealthier than young people. So they are less likely to be hurt if it got "touched"

But we should not be "touching" it because we all know that means congress stealing from an imaginary lock box.

We need to look for ways to return the money to the people who paid in and scrap the system. When we give everyone their own money back they will not get hurt.

The people who actually get hurt the most are the children of people who have paid in all their lives and then died before they could collect a penny of their own money. These kids (though usually grown up) get stuck with a measly survivors benefits (if they qualify) when they could have had an inheritance. Some of you will be those kids.
 
I would add that, statistically speaking, old people are a lot wealthier than young people. So they are less likely to be hurt if it got "touched"

But we should not be "touching" it because we all know that means congress stealing from an imaginary lock box.

We need to look for ways to return the money to the people who paid in and scrap the system. When we give everyone their own money back they will not get hurt.

The people who actually get hurt the most are the children of people who have paid in all their lives and then died before they could collect a penny of their own money. These kids (though usually grown up) get stuck with a measly survivors benefits (if they qualify) when they could have had an inheritance. Some of you will be those kids.

Agreed. I would think a good solution could follow this generic pattern:

50 and older: You keep SS as it is
40-49: Some form of a buyout to compensate for what you have paid in
39 and younger: Your SS is gone.

Those ages are arbitrary, and the numbers of the buyout would have to be figured out, but someone in this equation has to lose, and younger people (myself being one) will be less effected by the loss of Social Security and have more time to recover and build up retirement accounts.
 
Agreed. I would think a good solution could follow this generic pattern:

50 and older: You keep SS as it is
40-49: Some form of a buyout to compensate for what you have paid in
39 and younger: Your SS is gone.

Those ages are arbitrary, and the numbers of the buyout would have to be figured out, but someone in this equation has to lose, and younger people (myself being one) will be less effected by the loss of Social Security and have more time to recover and build up retirement accounts.

Why not give everybody what they paid in plus the interest they are due? People who have paid in longer would get more and people who paid in less would get less.

In the event that more is owed than the gov has the difference will come from congressional salaries:D

Actually I am sure that more would be owed than the gov has but it should be paid pack in a more fair and logical way. Therefore the people responsible for the shortfall should be responsible to pay it back. Those people are the representatives of you and I, our agents who have done our bidding. The money would have to be paid by all of us - this is not redistribution even if it does look like it. This is the American people owning our mistakes and making up for them. I suggest selling bonds with an attractive enough interest rate to entice buyers. The social security funds could even be paid back in these bonds. And since the bonds would be a good investment many people would want them.

In fact I suggest buying back our foreign debt by selling bonds to Americans too. This would be borrowing from the future but since we would be paying it back to ourselves it would be far better than a lot of other solutions.
 
It seems to me the solution could be as simple as raising the retirement age from 65 to 75 before you can receive SS or Medicare. That 10 years should keep both entitlements functioning.
 
It seems to me the solution could be as simple as raising the retirement age from 65 to 75 before you can receive SS or Medicare. That 10 years should keep both entitlements functioning.

After promising a person who has paid into the system his whole life that he can retire at a certain age, changing the age would be cheating him.
 
80 year olds won't survive a lung transplant, no responsible doc will do it.

Under our present system the doctors who want to continue to earn large sums of money will find a way to make it happen.

The government that does not want to pay for it will not.
 
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Why not give everybody what they paid in plus the interest they are due? People who have paid in longer would get more and people who paid in less would get less.

In the event that more is owed than the gov has the difference will come from congressional salaries:D

Haha, I like where you are coming from, but I don't think that work. At the very least, allow people to start opting out of the program, and stop borrowing against it.

Actually I am sure that more would be owed than the gov has but it should be paid pack in a more fair and logical way. Therefore the people responsible for the shortfall should be responsible to pay it back. Those people are the representatives of you and I, our agents who have done our bidding. The money would have to be paid by all of us - this is not redistribution even if it does look like it. This is the American people owning our mistakes and making up for them. I suggest selling bonds with an attractive enough interest rate to entice buyers. The social security funds could even be paid back in these bonds. And since the bonds would be a good investment many people would want them.

I would need to see numbers before I could get behind a bond sale. The idea of borrowing more money seems somewhat fishy.

In fact I suggest buying back our foreign debt by selling bonds to Americans too. This would be borrowing from the future but since we would be paying it back to ourselves it would be far better than a lot of other solutions.

Maybe, and you have a point, people who paid in really should get their money back... but I think to really fix the issue, some generation is going to have to eat the loss..I would argue the younger generation should be that generation because we can earn it back much easier.
 
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