Proposal to restrict US phone surveillance defeated

[Walter]

The U.S. House narrowly defeated a proposal to restrict the NSAs phone surveillance program that was exposed by Edward Snowden.

The proposal was backed both by Republicans like Justin Amash and Democrats like 25-term Democratic Rep John Conyers (serving in Congress since 1965!).

 

[Gipper]

The U.S. House narrowly defeated a proposal to restrict the NSAs phone surveillance program that was exposed by Edward Snowden.

The proposal was backed both by Republicans like Justin Amash and Democrats like 25-term Democratic Rep John Conyers (serving in Congress since 1965!).

The police state must not be infringed. Government only does good....so what is the big deal???....

ops...there is a problem...history tells us government(ie., rule by elites) is responsible for more death and suffering than any other cause.

It will be different this time....though....

 

[dogtowner]

disgraceful.

 

[Dr.Who]

Apparently the white house resorted to extraordinary measures to help defeat this amendment. Anyone who wants to blame Bush would be right but must also remember that Obama has thrown his full support behind a system that is far worse than the one Bush created.

 

[Gipper]

Apparently the white house resorted to extraordinary measures to help defeat this amendment. Anyone who wants to blame Bush would be right but must also remember that Obama has thrown his full support behind a system that is far worse than the one Bush created.

It was not only the White House who did all they could to stop the amendment. The R leadership did much the same. The Wall Street Journal editorial page opposed it too...essentially calling Amash a whack job, a tactic straight out of Saul Alinsky's and Obama's playbook.

The NSA snooping on Americans is an obvious breech of the Fourth Amendment, but since when does our government abide by the Constitution? Will the SC stop it....not likely.

Here is the amendment:
The amendment has three important practical effects. First, it ends the mass surveillance of Americans. The government no longer is authorized under Sec. 215 to hold a pool of metadata on every phone call of every American. Second, the amendment permits the government to continue to acquire business records and other “tangible things” that are actually related to an authorized counterterrorism investigation. The government still has access to this tool under the amendment, but it’s forced to comply with the intent of Congress when it passed Sec. 215. Third, the amendment imposes more robust judicial oversight of NSA’s surveillance. The FISA court will be involved every time NSA searches Americans’ records, and the court will have a substantive, statutory standard to apply to make sure the NSA does not violate Americans’ civil liberties.
What steps would the government take to collect records if the Amash-Conyers amendment were enacted? The government would have to provide facts to the FISA court to show that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the records sought (1) are relevant to an appropriately authorized national security investigation and (2) pertain to the person (including any group or corporation) under investigation.
We know that the government can use that process effectively in its investigations because it already does. Based on the government’s public statements, it appears that the government routinely goes to the FISA court for Sec. 215 orders for tangible things pertaining to persons under investigation. If the government uses non-bulk collection for other Sec. 215 orders, there is no good reason why the government needs bulk collection of Americans’ telephone metadata.
http://amash.house.gov/speech/amash-nsa-amendment-fact-sheet

 

[Gipper]

...and now we have Christie slamming Rand Paul...for being libertarian.

CRAZY!

 

[Dr.Who]

Wow just wow! Far too many of even republicans are trading our liberty for a perceived safety. We should oppose Christie at every turn from now on. The tea party should be re-invigorated, we should start supporting true conservative causes even at the box office, news stand, and with every click of the mouse (e.g click on stories written by admirable sources and ignore others), and we should applaud the Libertarians and even the democrats who stood for our rights on this one.

 

[dogtowner]

Wow just wow! Far too many of even republicans are trading our liberty for a perceived safety. We should oppose Christie at every turn from now on. The tea party should be re-invigorated, we should start supporting true conservative causes even at the box office, news stand, and with every click of the mouse (e.g click on stories written by admirable sources and ignore others), and we should applaud the Libertarians and even the democrats who stood for our rights on this one.

whats sadder is whose safety they are sweating.

what do you suppose they were told to bring them along ?

couldnt have been plots about them could it ? nah ofcoursenot

 

[Gipper]

whats sadder is whose safety they are sweating.

what do you suppose they were told to bring them along ?

couldnt have been plots about them could it ? nah ofcoursenot

Good point...could the national security statists be blackmailing members of Congress using information they obtained from spying on those members?

Nothing can get in the way of national security. The problem is what the statists consider to be national security. I believe the current regime considers anyone who is out spoken against their transforming of America, are considered enemies of the state. Anyone who is an enemy of the welfare/warfare state, generally does not do well.

 

[Dr.Who]

Good point...could the national security statists be blackmailing members of Congress using information they obtained from spying on those members?

Nothing can get in the way of national security. The problem is what the statists consider to be national security. I believe the current regime considers anyone who is out spoken against their transforming of America, are considered enemies of the state. Anyone who is an enemy of the welfare/warfare state, generally does not do well.

Yes it is certainly possible that someone is being blackmailed. and yes the enemies of this admin are more likely to be us than jihadists as they see it

 

[dogtowner]

Good point...could the national security statists be blackmailing members of Congress using information they obtained from spying on those members?

Nothing can get in the way of national security. The problem is what the statists consider to be national security. I believe the current regime considers anyone who is out spoken against their transforming of America, are considered enemies of the state. Anyone who is an enemy of the welfare/warfare state, generally does not do well.

or even just made up crap. pols are seldom the sharpest knives in the drawer.

 

[Gipper]

Yes it is certainly possible that someone is being blackmailed. and yes the enemies of this admin are more likely to be us than jihadists as they see it

Agreed. It is frightening to think our government considers us more dangerous than a jihadist, but I suspect this is the case. All those ammo purchases could indicate a paranoia on the part of our government. A paranoia that is misplaced, if our nation is truly a representative republic...of the people, by the people, for the people.

If they start doing lots of Waco's, we will have our answer.

 

[dogtowner]

Agreed. It is frightening to think our government considers us more dangerous than a jihadist, but I suspect this is the case. All those ammo purchases could indicate a paranoia on the part of our government. A paranoia that is misplaced, if our nation is truly a representative republic...of the people, by the people, for the people.

If they start doing lots of Waco's, we will have our answer.

the citizenry is a far bigger threat than a few hundred or thousand jihadis. there are 380 million of us and we have them surrounded.

a few Wacos will wake that bear and ed this tyrany for another 200+ year.

 

[Dr.Who]

Agreed. It is frightening to think our government considers us more dangerous than a jihadist, but I suspect this is the case. All those ammo purchases could indicate a paranoia on the part of our government. A paranoia that is misplaced, if our nation is truly a representative republic...of the people, by the people, for the people.

If they start doing lots of Waco's, we will have our answer.

Ya know I thought people who were claiming the gov was surveilling the entire US population were short of a full deck. And I thought people who claim the gov bought all those bullets for less than ideal reason were short of a full deck.

Given how the NSA thing has played out I'm gonna have to rethink that bullet thing.

P.S. today it occured to me that Snowden is not merely a whistle blower but a hero.

 

[Dr.Who]

the citizenry is a far bigger threat than a few hundred or thousand jihadis. there are 380 million of us and we have them surrounded.

a few Wacos will wake that bear and ed this tyrany for another 200+ year.

Well im not willing to go all waco.

But just as dusting the whole airport with heroin would render sniffer dogs obsolete so would a million internet searches on topics the nsa should not be investigating but does.