People are not basically good....

Gipper

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Great column by Dennis Prager. Nine excellent points.

Secularism, which is the foundation of Leftism, can result in much evil. History tells us this, but many do not know history.

The collapse of Judeo-Christian values is upon us and the consequences will be heinous. If we humans do not demand goodness, as God teaches, evil things result.


1. People are not basically good
At any time in history, the belief that people are basically good was irrational and naive. To believe it after the Holocaust -- and after the Communist genocides in China, Korea, Cambodia, and the Soviet Union, the Turkish slaughter of the Armenians, and the mass murders in Rwanda, the Congo, Tibet and elsewhere -- is beyond irrational and naive. It is stupid and dangerous, and therefore inexcusable.
2. The Jews are the world's canary in the mine
When Jews are murdered, it is a warning to decent non-Jews that they are next. Because Western nations dismissed Nazi anti-Semitism as the Jews' problem, 50 million non-Jews ended up dying. If the world dismisses Ahmadinejad's Iran as primarily the Jewish state's problem, non-Jews will suffer again. Jew-haters (or, if you will, Jewish state-haters) begin with Jews but never end with them.
3. Great good is no more common than great evil
That is why the most important task for any society is to devise ways to make people good. By "good," I do not mean people who do not murder or steal. People who don't murder or steal aren't good people; they are simply not criminals.
It is therefore worth pondering: With the collapse of America's Judeo-Christian moral foundations, how exactly will American society make good individuals? Those who equate goodness with support for a welfare state do not ask this question. But the rest of us are very worried.
4. Lies and victimhood make evil possible
Most evil is not committed by sadists. Most evil is committed by people who hold evil ideologies. And in modern times those ideologies have emanated from two primary sources: lies and victimhood.
Lies about Jews built Auschwitz (just as, for example, lies about blacks enabled the transatlantic slave trade). And along with lies about Jews, it was Germans' sense of victimhood that built Auschwitz. Perceiving oneself or one's group as a victim allows many people to rationalize doing evil.
5. Nazism, not Christianity, built Auschwitz
The symbol of Nazism was the swastika, not the cross. Had Nazism been a Christian movement, its symbol would have been, or at least included, the Christian cross. The claim that the Holocaust was a product of Christianity is a charge perpetuated by people and ideologies bitter over the nearly 2,000 years of Christian anti-Semitism in Europe. That bitterness is warranted. Blame for the Holocaust is not. Too many Christians supported the Nazis, but Nazism was anti-Christian.
The complex truth is this:
a) Nearly 2,000 years of European Christian anti-Semitism -- including Martin Luther -- rendered the Jew an outcast and thereby laid much of the groundwork for the acceptance of Nazi demonization of the Jews.
b) But no Christian institution or theology ever called for the extermination of the Jews. It took the secular shattering of the Christian conscience to accomplish that. This was prophesied 100 years before Hitler's rise, in 1834, by the great German poet, Heinrich Heine, a secular Jew:
"Christianity -- and that is its greatest merit -- has somewhat mitigated that brutal German love of war, but it could not destroy it. Should that subduing talisman, the cross, be shattered, the frenzied madness of the ancient warriors, that insane Berserk rage of which Nordic bards have spoken and sung so often, will once more burst into flame. This talisman [the cross] is fragile, and the day will come when it will collapse miserably. Then ... a play will be performed in Germany which will make the French Revolution look like an innocent idyll."
European Christianity has much to atone for (and it has). But the collapse of Christianity should frighten every decent person. In Europe, it was first succeeded by fascism, communism and Nazism, and then by a soulless and morally confused secularism. What will succeed it in America?
6. Secular education has proved morally worthless
Professor Peter Merkl of the University of California at Santa Barbara studied 581 Nazis and found that Germans with a high school education "or even university study" were more likely to be antisemitic than those with less education ("Political Violence under the Swastika," Princeton University Press).
A study of the makeup of 24 leaders of Einsatzgruppen, the mobile killing units that killed nearly two million Jews prior to the use of gas chambers, showed that the great majority were highly educated: "One of the most striking things about the Einsatzgruppen leadership makeup is the prevalence of educated people, professionals, especially lawyers, Ph.D.'s. ..." (Irving Greenberg, in "Auschwitz: Beginning of a New Era?" Ktav Press).
6. Pacifists in moral societies are morally worthless
No Nazi death camp was liberated by pacifists or peace activists. Every camp was liberated by a soldier who either killed or helped others kill.
7. Had there been an Israel in the 1930s and '40s, six million Jews would not have been murdered
There would have been one place on earth that would have taken in Jews prior to the Holocaust, when Hitler was willing to let many leave. And during the Holocaust, one country would have fought for them -- by bombing Auschwitz, for example.
8. The Chinese need their Holocaust Day
When the Chinese have their own Holocaust Day -- a day that commemorates Mao's and the Communist Party's killing of 60 million Chinese between 1958 and 1961 -- China will be a much more decent place. Until then, it is run by people who venerate a monster.
9. God is indispensable -- but not a celestial butler
If we deny God, we will produce a morally lost society.
But if we rely only on God -- and do not fight -- evil will win.
 
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Wow, with proof like that who could argue?

I do think you should examine the idea that if god made people and they are not good then god has to shoulder responsibility

Oops, I forgot that the neocon ideology of individual responsibility doesn't apply when it is inconvenient

And let us not forget who made the devil

Did someone have a gun to God's head when he made the devil?

And god kills people for doing bad things but he doesn't kill the devil for doing bad things so I guess he approves of the devil

Well he did make him. And he does need him for the story to play out

So you see that god is evil
 
Wow, with proof like that who could argue?

I do think you should examine the idea that if god made people and they are not good then god has to shoulder responsibility

Oops, I forgot that the neocon ideology of individual responsibility doesn't apply when it is inconvenient

And let us not forget who made the devil

Did someone have a gun to God's head when he made the devil?

And god kills people for doing bad things but he doesn't kill the devil for doing bad things so I guess he approves of the devil

Well he did make him. And he does need him for the story to play out

So you see that god is evil


You do not understand God's teachings...that is apparent.

He made us in his likeness, but gave us free will. Without following His teachings, many if not most humans will not do good and many will do evil. History tells us this, but unfortunately your kind have perverted history so you fail to learn its lessons.

I thought this from Prager was telling:
European Christianity has much to atone for (and it has). But the collapse of Christianity should frighten every decent person. In Europe, it was first succeeded by fascism, communism and Nazism, and then by a soulless and morally confused secularism. What will succeed it in America?

With the collapse of Christianity, not only in Europe but throughout the world, there will be consequences. Those consequences are likely to be evil.

Would you prefer to be ruled by leaders who believe in God or ones who do not? Rhetorical question...I know your answer and as in most things you believe, it is the wrong answer.

Your religion is secular Leftism. What does history tell you about secular Leftism?
 
Good and bad are constructs based on human judgements of human behaviour. Right-wing Americans are essentially evil because they have been brainwashed into supporting a system based on greed, spite and murder, but they could be saved if someone would introduce Christianity into the USA. Most people are just a mix. The key to evil is self-righteousness, such as we see in all right-extremist posts here.
 
Good and bad are constructs based on human judgements of human behaviour. Right-wing Americans are essentially evil because they have been brainwashed into supporting a system based on greed, spite and murder, but they could be saved if someone would introduce Christianity into the USA. Most people are just a mix. The key to evil is self-righteousness, such as we see in all right-extremist posts here.

Wrong again and typically most hateful of you.

Evil is defined not by man, but by God.

You think right wing Americans are evil. A most foolish belief, but most typical of you. As such, you would have no problem sending all of them to their deaths just as the Nazis did the Jews and others. If the Nazis are evil, then you must be too.
 
Good and bad are constructs based on human judgements of human behaviour. Right-wing Americans are essentially evil because they have been brainwashed into supporting a system based on greed, spite and murder, but they could be saved if someone would introduce Christianity into the USA. Most people are just a mix. The key to evil is self-righteousness, such as we see in all right-extremist posts here.

Even if we all call some particular evil good it will still be evil.
 
Wrong again and typically most hateful of you.

Evil is defined not by man, but by God.

You think right wing Americans are evil. A most foolish belief, but most typical of you. As such, you would have no problem sending all of them to their deaths just as the Nazis did the Jews and others. If the Nazis are evil, then you must be too.
Some great points Gip, we know "The truth shall set us free" is scripture, so it should be taken literally. Is diluting yourself into believing in a Marxist peace-promise going to set mankind free, or is it going to lead to slavery? What is the truth that the scripture says will set us free? I'd argue it's the whole message of the book; the entire ideology. The whole truth about God, Christ, the Spirit, moral living, God's laws, and His plan for us, is what sets mankind free literally. Think about it. What countries in the world are the most free? And what is their religion, and how free are they to learn about and practice it? Which are the least free? What is their religion? In North Korea, for example, they worship Kim Jung Il. How's that working out for them? It's like 1984 with death camps in there!

Is becoming a slave to vices good for us or bad for us? Sin can be easily defined as anything that makes us or someone we're acting upon spiritually, emotionally, or physically less free. Addictions, vices, and negative impulses we feed are sins and at the same time, are our masters. Sin is slavery, not the other way around. Conversely, morality is freedom and peace. So to embrace that truth is to be set free spiritually, and because God's laws work on many levels, it ultimately has the effect of setting us free literally. The truth shall set you free. Morality shall set you free. It's pretty simple. You can't have real peace without freedom, can you? So technically, those who are saying that morality is bunk are the ones who are really destroying our peace and our freedom.
 
Some great points Gip, we know "The truth shall set us free" is scripture, so it should be taken literally. Is diluting yourself into believing in a Marxist peace-promise going to set mankind free, or is it going to lead to slavery? What is the truth that the scripture says will set us free? I'd argue it's the whole message of the book; the entire ideology. The whole truth about God, Christ, the Spirit, moral living, God's laws, and His plan for us, is what sets mankind free literally. Think about it. What countries in the world are the most free? And what is their religion, and how free are they to learn about and practice it? Which are the least free? What is their religion? In North Korea, for example, they worship Kim Jung Il. How's that working out for them? It's like 1984 with death camps in there!

Is becoming a slave to vices good for us or bad for us? Sin can be easily defined as anything that makes us or someone we're acting upon spiritually, emotionally, or physically less free. Addictions, vices, and negative impulses we feed are sins and at the same time, are our masters. Sin is slavery, not the other way around. Conversely, morality is freedom and peace. So to embrace that truth is to be set free spiritually, and because God's laws work on many levels, it ultimately has the effect of setting us free literally. The truth shall set you free. Morality shall set you free. It's pretty simple. You can't have real peace without freedom, can you? So technically, those who are saying that morality is bunk are the ones who are really destroying our peace and our freedom.

Very well stated. Thank you.

Yes God's laws work, but we know that the secular Left hates God and ignores His laws. Immorality is the flavor of the day and it is destroying society, but the Left is cool with it. To the Left, good is a "human judgement" as the full of hate Caveman put it above. So, good can be anything you judge it to be.

Good in Caveman's mind, might the extermination of all believers and right wingers....after all to him, that would be a GOOD thing.
 
I believe God created man good. Despite original sin and our own sins we are basicly good.
 
Wrong again and typically most hateful of you.

Evil is defined not by man, but by God.

You think right wing Americans are evil. A most foolish belief, but most typical of you. As such, you would have no problem sending all of them to their deaths just as the Nazis did the Jews and others. If the Nazis are evil, then you must be too.

Drivel. In a decent society they would soon reform, and even reading the New Testament would help some of them to become less degraded and disgusting. Unlike your strutting masters we actually worked against the nazis to defended the Jes, as you know. That is why we can think freely, while your guilt makes you grovel to the pretend-Jewish imitators of Hitler.
 
Human beings are basically self-serving. Left to our own devices, our nature is to covet "things" and to serve only ourselves. One need only look at babies and very young children to understand this simple fact. Religions, or philosophies if you prefer, attempt to establish principles of behavior that change the basic nature of humanity. In matters of "religion" or "philosophy", one should look at the principles of human behavior that each espouses. One should ask if those principles direct human beings to behave in admirable ways or not.

Many leftists and atheists argue that religions place restrictions on human behavior. Duh, ya think?? Of course they do. The intent of religions or philosophies is to direct how human beings behave toward one another. If our atheist friends here decry religious principles, what principles of behavior do they offer as alternatives? The law of the jungle? The simple-minded dogma of self-interest? Do they believe that there should be any rules of human behavior? Of course they do. They are absolutely certain that religion cannot play any role in politics. Atheists have that one, uncompromising belief, and on every other matter, atheists differ radically in their philosophical principles. Leftist are 100% certain that religion cannot play a role in politics. They're also 100% certain that abortion is a right. Each of those beliefs is a moral principle, though neither is based in Christian philosophy. Their beliefs came from somewhere, but God only knows from where.
 
Human beings are basically self-serving. Left to our own devices, our nature is to covet "things" and to serve only ourselves. One need only look at babies and very young children to understand this simple fact. Religions, or philosophies if you prefer, attempt to establish principles of behavior that change the basic nature of humanity. In matters of "religion" or "philosophy", one should look at the principles of human behavior that each espouses. One should ask if those principles direct human beings to behave in admirable ways or not.

Many leftists and atheists argue that religions place restrictions on human behavior. Duh, ya think?? Of course they do. The intent of religions or philosophies is to direct how human beings behave toward one another. If our atheist friends here decry religious principles, what principles of behavior do they offer as alternatives? The law of the jungle? The simple-minded dogma of self-interest? Do they believe that there should be any rules of human behavior? Of course they do. They are absolutely certain that religion cannot play any role in politics. Atheists have that one, uncompromising belief, and on every other matter, atheists differ radically in their philosophical principles. Leftist are 100% certain that religion cannot play a role in politics. They're also 100% certain that abortion is a right. Each of those beliefs is a moral principle, though neither is based in Christian philosophy. Their beliefs came from somewhere, but God only knows from where.

Only half-witted mugs are bothered with anything as tedious and temporary as the imagined 'self'. Americans, having never been introduced to Christianity, believe such bilge in the same way they believe in McCarthy and unrestrained capitalism.
 
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Only half-witted mugs are bothered with anything as tedious and temporary as the imagined 'self'. Americans, having never been introduced to Christianity, believe such bilge in the same way they believe in McCarthy and unrestrained capitalism.

Yeah...Americans have never been introduced to Christianity.....too funny....:confused:o_O....you might read our founding documents and if you still believe that rubbish, you should seek professional mental help. No nation in world history has been more influenced by Christianity than the USA.

But then you believe socialism wonderful and that America operates under a capitalist system....wrong on both counts.
 
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