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Coyote
Well-Known Member
Who cares?
I'm more interested in what Obama has to say, what he's done and his political record then I am about the church he attends.
I'm more interested in what Obama has to say, what he's done and his political record then I am about the church he attends.
The Scotsman
Well-Known Member
IRS Investigating Obama's United Church Of Christ
Says Reason To Believe Speech Violated Restrictions On Political Activity By Non-Profit Groups
NEW YORK (CBS/AP) ― The IRS is investigating the United Church of Christ over a speech Sen. Barack Obama gave at its national meeting last year after he became a candidate for president, the denomination said Tuesday.
Obama, an Illinois Democrat, belongs to the 1.2 million-member Protestant group through his Chicago congregation.
In a letter the denomination received Monday, the IRS said "reasonable belief exists" that the circumstances surrounding the speech violated restrictions on political activity for tax-exempt organizations. The denomination has denied any wrongdoing.
Obama, a member of Trinity United Church of Christ, spoke about faith and public life at the denomination's June 2007 General Synod in Hartford, Conn.
The IRS said in the letter that it was concerned about articles posted on the church's Web site and on other sites stating that Obama had addressed nearly 10,000 people at the event. The agency also said Obama volunteers had staffed campaign tables "outside the center to promote his campaign."
The Rev. J. Bennett Guess, a spokesman for the Cleveland-based denomination, said a group of Obama volunteers was outside the Hartford Civic Center, where the event took place, but that they were told they could not enter the meeting.
The UCC had invited Obama to speak a year before he announced he was running for president because of his involvement in the denomination, Guess said.
Church leaders consulted with lawyers before the event on following IRS rules. Before Obama spoke, a top church official told the crowd that the senator's talk was not a campaign-related event and that no leaflets or other signs of political support would be allowed.
Nonprofits are barred from endorsing candidates or providing support for campaigns, although groups are allowed to invite candidates to address them and many do so. Guess said no other presidential candidates were invited because Obama was the only one active in the UCC.
The Rev. John H. Thomas, president of the denomination, called the inquiry "disturbing."
"When the invitation to an elected public official to speak to the national meeting of his own church family is called into question, it has a chilling effect on every religious community," Thomas said in a statement.
Amy Brundage, an Obama spokeswoman, insisted the speech was not a campaign event. In the address, Obama spoke about his personal spiritual journey and had said that faith had been misused in the past to divide Americans, partly because of the Christian right.
The IRS has stepped up its monitoring of the political activity of nonprofit groups during the 2008 election. It is more common for individual congregations to be targeted, not entire denominations, but very large ministries have been investigated in the past.
The inquiries can take years. Punishments can range from a financial penalty to loss of tax-exempt status -- an outcome that church attorneys call the "death penalty" for nonprofits.
The IRS does not comment on investigations because tax information is confidential.
J. Brent Walker, executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, which defends religious groups against government interference, called the timing of the investigation "peculiar." But he said he generally has found the IRS to be nonpartisan.
"They have not gone after the left or the right or one party over another," Walker said. "Both sides have accused the service of doing that, but my impression is that they've done a pretty good job being nonpartisan."
http://wcbstv.com/campaign08/barack.obama.irs.2.663504.html
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Must be better things to investigate!
Says Reason To Believe Speech Violated Restrictions On Political Activity By Non-Profit Groups
NEW YORK (CBS/AP) ― The IRS is investigating the United Church of Christ over a speech Sen. Barack Obama gave at its national meeting last year after he became a candidate for president, the denomination said Tuesday.
Obama, an Illinois Democrat, belongs to the 1.2 million-member Protestant group through his Chicago congregation.
In a letter the denomination received Monday, the IRS said "reasonable belief exists" that the circumstances surrounding the speech violated restrictions on political activity for tax-exempt organizations. The denomination has denied any wrongdoing.
Obama, a member of Trinity United Church of Christ, spoke about faith and public life at the denomination's June 2007 General Synod in Hartford, Conn.
The IRS said in the letter that it was concerned about articles posted on the church's Web site and on other sites stating that Obama had addressed nearly 10,000 people at the event. The agency also said Obama volunteers had staffed campaign tables "outside the center to promote his campaign."
The Rev. J. Bennett Guess, a spokesman for the Cleveland-based denomination, said a group of Obama volunteers was outside the Hartford Civic Center, where the event took place, but that they were told they could not enter the meeting.
The UCC had invited Obama to speak a year before he announced he was running for president because of his involvement in the denomination, Guess said.
Church leaders consulted with lawyers before the event on following IRS rules. Before Obama spoke, a top church official told the crowd that the senator's talk was not a campaign-related event and that no leaflets or other signs of political support would be allowed.
Nonprofits are barred from endorsing candidates or providing support for campaigns, although groups are allowed to invite candidates to address them and many do so. Guess said no other presidential candidates were invited because Obama was the only one active in the UCC.
The Rev. John H. Thomas, president of the denomination, called the inquiry "disturbing."
"When the invitation to an elected public official to speak to the national meeting of his own church family is called into question, it has a chilling effect on every religious community," Thomas said in a statement.
Amy Brundage, an Obama spokeswoman, insisted the speech was not a campaign event. In the address, Obama spoke about his personal spiritual journey and had said that faith had been misused in the past to divide Americans, partly because of the Christian right.
The IRS has stepped up its monitoring of the political activity of nonprofit groups during the 2008 election. It is more common for individual congregations to be targeted, not entire denominations, but very large ministries have been investigated in the past.
The inquiries can take years. Punishments can range from a financial penalty to loss of tax-exempt status -- an outcome that church attorneys call the "death penalty" for nonprofits.
The IRS does not comment on investigations because tax information is confidential.
J. Brent Walker, executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, which defends religious groups against government interference, called the timing of the investigation "peculiar." But he said he generally has found the IRS to be nonpartisan.
"They have not gone after the left or the right or one party over another," Walker said. "Both sides have accused the service of doing that, but my impression is that they've done a pretty good job being nonpartisan."
http://wcbstv.com/campaign08/barack.obama.irs.2.663504.html
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Must be better things to investigate!
Investigate all you want...but dont make this about Obama and make sure you investigate a ton of other churches that preach politics. Give me a break.
In the meantime, Obama is closing the lead in Pennsylvania. On his way to winning the Democratic Nomination and is going to steamroll McCain in the general.
So when will everyone just get over this whole church flap? Its tired old news and if you cant come up with something else, give it a rest.
In the meantime, Obama is closing the lead in Pennsylvania. On his way to winning the Democratic Nomination and is going to steamroll McCain in the general.
So when will everyone just get over this whole church flap? Its tired old news and if you cant come up with something else, give it a rest.
vyo476
Well-Known Member
We have a whole bunch of threads about Obama's religious background, especially about whether or not he was ever a Muslim, now about his affiliation to this Reverend Wright character, and a few that have to do with how racial issues are playing into the election...does anyone know anyting about the man's actual policies?
bewitched
Well-Known Member
Barrakah (Islamic blessing) Hussain (prosperity Arabic) O'Bama (male child Arabic)
his Islamic background and connections should be as much as a red flag as his racist church.
then the lack of patriotism to the United States by not wearing a lapel pin and saluting the flag of the United States, which is against Islam as idol worship should also be noticed.
but apparently many Americans have drank the Obamanic kool aid and are high or something.
his Islamic background and connections should be as much as a red flag as his racist church.
then the lack of patriotism to the United States by not wearing a lapel pin and saluting the flag of the United States, which is against Islam as idol worship should also be noticed.
but apparently many Americans have drank the Obamanic kool aid and are high or something.
Thanks for the constant reminders of what the meanings behind his names are. Funny thing is that he was given those names and did not actively seek them out.
As an example, my names:
Christopher=Greek for son of god
Paul= Latin for little or small
Gotta tell you, that is about the most inaccurate description of me in any way.
So ones patriotism is defined by whether or not they wear a pin? When in fact wearing a pin on ones lapel goes directly against the etiquette of flag treatment?
So really you can drop your arguments about the damn flag pins anytime now, it holds no water and those that do insist on wearing them might be in violation of federal law.
As an example, my names:
Christopher=Greek for son of god
Paul= Latin for little or small
Gotta tell you, that is about the most inaccurate description of me in any way.
So ones patriotism is defined by whether or not they wear a pin? When in fact wearing a pin on ones lapel goes directly against the etiquette of flag treatment?
http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml
So really you can drop your arguments about the damn flag pins anytime now, it holds no water and those that do insist on wearing them might be in violation of federal law.
vyo476
Well-Known Member
My name, Daniel, means "God is my judge." Think that describes me at all?
Pandora
Well-Known Member
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/17/politics/main2369157.shtml
here is a good site. It was written Jan. 17, 2007, before the obama bots drank the kool-aid. the things here shouldnt be taken as "attacks" on the front runner, they were written long before anyone knew he had a chance.
If any obama bot out there could lay off the kool-aid long enough to get past the hope and change and LOOK at what he votes, maybe some people would ask for diet pepsi next time
i am most offended by the voting against the born alive act, and the gun issues, but really everything about him that i look up seems to offend me.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
just proves my point, his supporters would stick with him even if they caught him in bed with a live boy or dead girl or... in the middle of sacrificing a cow to satan himself
but not every one is left of left... I have no hope for those who drank the kool aid only those who saw it and thought hmm.. that might be good but read the lable before the guzzled it down.
just proves my point, his supporters would stick with him even if they caught him in bed with a live boy or dead girl or... in the middle of sacrificing a cow to satan himself
but not every one is left of left... I have no hope for those who drank the kool aid only those who saw it and thought hmm.. that might be good but read the lable before the guzzled it down.
The Huey Long scenario would certainly make me vote elsewhere. But you must understand, you are nitpicking things that arent important to me or the other supporters of Obama.
He is young and fresh...just like me
He wants out of Iraq
He will improve healthcare
He isnt a wealthy white guy
What his reverend said, I care very little. His not wearing a lapel pin, I dont think he or anyone should. Coke use is no big deal especially when he is up front about it.
I dont want another Clinton under any circumstances, and McCain is my third favorite Republican out there.
So tell me, NO Obamanation who is it you are supporting?
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Pandora
Well-Known Member
The Huey Long scenario would certainly make me vote elsewhere. But you must understand, you are nitpicking things that arent important to me or the other supporters of Obama.
He is young and fresh...just like me
He wants out of Iraq
He will improve healthcare
He isnt a wealthy white guy
What his reverend said, I care very little. His not wearing a lapel pin, I dont think he or anyone should. Coke use is no big deal especially when he is up front about it.
I dont want another Clinton under any circumstances, and McCain is my third favorite Republican out there.
So tell me, NO Obamanation who is it you are supporting?
I dont think for a second anyting I say will sway a true blue obama supporter. But i do know many who are not obama bots who have issues that matter to them. gun control and abortion are the two that come to mind. I do try to inform those types of people the best I can about his record.
If you can like obama then i think thats great, vote for him and send him ten bucks. I wish I had someone to support and rally behind. Conservative ideas are not for everyone, either are liberal ideas.
umm... who am I supporting? ugh... well...um.. so far NO ONE! they all make me gag! I am very upset that in this huge great vast country THIS IS ALL THEY PUT ON THE MENU!!!! but of all the three I hate obama the most and i am tossed between hillary and mccain. my only last greatest hope is that mccain gets a decent running mate. If he doesnt then...oh that sounds to depressing to think about.
oh by the way
Obama may not be a wealthy white guy but he sure is a wealthy black guy!
