Father Cutie? Cutie, really?

[PLC1]

This story has so many interesting twists, we just can't ignore it.

First, Father Cutie? That's his real name, not just something his girlfriend calls him? Apparently so.

More seriously, why does the Catholic church insist that priests be celibate? The ramifications and unintended consequences are legion.

At least, the story has a happy ending. Check it out:

Father Cutie has a new church, a new life and plans to marry. He has left the Catholic Church and the priesthood to become an Episcopalian minister. He preached his first sermon as an Episcopalian at 10 a.m. Sunday.
Cutie was photographed with his lover, now made public, on a beach. The scandal rocked the Catholic community because Cutie is a famous person among the Spanish-speaking folks in the Catholic Church. He was literally an Oprah Winfrey-type with his own show. As an Oprah Winfrey type he discussed critical issues, including those surrounding personal affairs. He wrote a book about relationships and love, and for that reason people were shocked and concerned about his behavior.

 

[samsara15]

Good for him. The Catholic church would be much better off if it allowed priests to marry. Celibacy for priests has failed and has encouraged pedophila.

 

[MistyTiger]

Is he a real cutie? LOL.

I think priests should be allowed to marry as well. It's only natural for people to want to have a lifelong mate. Forbidding that is cruel and unusual...and unnatural.

 

[PLC1]

Is he a real cutie? LOL.

I think priests should be allowed to marry as well. It's only natural for people to want to have a lifelong mate. Forbidding that is cruel and unusual...and unnatural.

And it appears to attract people with unnatural sexual appetites as well.

 

[MistyTiger]

And it appears to attract people with unnatural sexual appetites as well.

Indeed.

 

[SW85]

First, Father Cutie? That's his real name, not just something his girlfriend calls him? Apparently so.

Haw haw haw! Foreigners and their funny-sounding names!

More seriously, why does the Catholic church insist that priests be celibate? The ramifications and unintended consequences are legion.

Perhaps the Bible provides some guidance in this regard?

"I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord."

That's 1 Corinthians 7:32-35, as succinct a case for celibacy as has been made yet.

Celibacy for priests has failed and has encouraged pedophila.

The only thing that's failed is your sense of proportion.

Fewer than a quarter of a percent of Catholic priests serving in the last 60 years have been convicted of child sexual abuse, a figure which is at least 1/4 and as much as 1/20th that of the general population. Seems to me that Catholic priests are markedly less likely than others to engage in child sexual abuse.

 

[PLC1]

Fewer than a quarter of a percent of Catholic priests serving in the last 60 years have been convicted of child sexual abuse, a figure which is at least 1/4 and as much as 1/20th that of the general population. Seems to me that Catholic priests are markedly less likely than others to engage in child sexual abuse.

You're saying that 1/20th, or 5% of the general population has been convicted of child sexual abuse, and that I have a problem with proportion.

Sure.

Now, let's include all of the pedophile priests who have simply been reassigned, and see if it still is a quarter as many as the general population.

Celibacy is unnatural, plain and simple, regardless of what can be mined from the scriptures.

 

[Dr.Who]

More seriously, why does the Catholic church insist that priests be celibate? The ramifications and unintended consequences are legion.

No doubt it is difficult to remain celibate. But something being difficult is not a reason not to do it.

From a biblical perpective I think the catholics missed the interpretation on this one as the bible says if one has a hard time being single they should marry. Maybe the priests shouldnt have to stay celibate but should only be celibate as long as it works for them.

 

[Dr.Who]

Good for him. The Catholic church would be much better off if it allowed priests to marry. Celibacy for priests has failed and has encouraged pedophila.

I too have seen the stats that priests are less likely to be pedophiles than the regular population. Mine was not based on convictions. I'll see if I can find it again.

 

[Dr.Who]

And it appears to attract people with unnatural sexual appetites as well.

According to the MMPI priests and gays share the same traits to a degree.

But even though gays are more inclined to pedophilia than the reg population (I remember the wording of that to be critically important and I don't have the wording in front of me so take it as something to be explored still) and since priests seem to be less inclined to pedophilia than the reg population perhaps it is because they are priests that they are less inclined.

 

[Dr.Who]

First stat so far:

My research of cases over the past 20 years indicates no evidence whatever that Catholic or other celibate clergy are any more likely to be involved in misconduct or abuse than clergy of any other denomination -- or indeed, than nonclergy. However determined news media may be to see this affair as a crisis of celibacy, the charge is just unsupported.

http://www.post-gazette.com/forum/comm/20020303edjenk03p6.asp

Here is number 2:

There's absolutely no evidence that priests are more likely to abuse children than are other groups of men. The use and abuse of children as objects for the sexual gratification of adults is epidemic in all classes, professions, religions, and ethnic communities across the globe, as figures on child pornography, incest, and child prostitution make abundantly clear. Pedophilia (the sexual abuse of a prepubescent child) among priests is extremely rare, affecting only 0.3% of the entire population of clergy.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0011.html

(by the way that last article also says this:
"Homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles as heterosexual men."

Again given the critical importance of the nuance of the statistics it could be that that author stated it wrong or did not quote his source best.)

So if priests are more likely to be gay and gay men are more likely to be pedophiles then the fact that priests are less likely to be pedophiles is significant.

 

[PLC1]

First stat so far:

My research of cases over the past 20 years indicates no evidence whatever that Catholic or other celibate clergy are any more likely to be involved in misconduct or abuse than clergy of any other denomination -- or indeed, than nonclergy. However determined news media may be to see this affair as a crisis of celibacy, the charge is just unsupported.

http://www.post-gazette.com/forum/comm/20020303edjenk03p6.asp

Here is number 2:

There's absolutely no evidence that priests are more likely to abuse children than are other groups of men. The use and abuse of children as objects for the sexual gratification of adults is epidemic in all classes, professions, religions, and ethnic communities across the globe, as figures on child pornography, incest, and child prostitution make abundantly clear. Pedophilia (the sexual abuse of a prepubescent child) among priests is extremely rare, affecting only 0.3% of the entire population of clergy.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0011.html

(by the way that last article also says this:
"Homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles as heterosexual men."

Again given the critical importance of the nuance of the statistics it could be that that author stated it wrong or did not quote his source best.)

So if priests are more likely to be gay and gay men are more likely to be pedophiles then the fact that priests are less likely to be pedophiles is significant.

From your first link:

By this low standard, the survey found that about 40 priests, about 1.8 percent of the whole, were probably guilty of misconduct with minors at some point in their careers. Put another way, no evidence existed against about 98 percent of parish clergy, the overwhelming majority of the group. Since other organizations dealing with children have not undertaken such comprehensive studies, we have no idea whether the Catholic figure is better or worse than the rate for schoolteachers, residential home counselors, social workers or scout masters.

Let's see... If a similar number of, say for example, school teachers were guilty of misconduct with minors, that would mean that, of the 310,000 teachers in California, there would have to be 5,580 teachers in this state who have been guilty of sexual misconduct with minors. That's not just 5,580 individual cases, but that many individuals times the number of offenses. No, if pedophilia were that prevalent in the classroom, it would have been front page news already.

Of course, teachers are not required to be celibate.

 

[Dr.Who]

From your first link:



Let's see... If a similar number of, say for example, school teachers were guilty of misconduct with minors, that would mean that, of the 310,000 teachers in California, there would have to be 5,580 teachers in this state who have been guilty of sexual misconduct with minors. That's not just 5,580 individual cases, but that many individuals times the number of offenses. No, if pedophilia were that prevalent in the classroom, it would have been front page news already.

Of course, teachers are not required to be celibate.

You obviously did not read the whole article.

The "misconduct with minors" is not the same as pedophilia. Many of the people the misconduct occurred with were 17 or 18 years old and depending on the country in which it occurred in were above the age of consent.

The article was clear that there was only one case of actual pedophilia among the thousands investigated.

 

[PLC1]

You obviously did not read the whole article.

The "misconduct with minors" is not the same as pedophilia. Many of the people the misconduct occurred with were 17 or 18 years old and depending on the country in which it occurred in were above the age of consent.

The article was clear that there was only one case of actual pedophilia among the thousands investigated.

Actually, I didn't read the article put out by the church, thinking that it just might not be totally unbiased. Scrolling through it, I see I was right about that, but still don't see any wild claims about there having only been one case of pedophilia among all of the thousands of celibate priests. That would, indeed, be proof that the requirement for celibacy is not attracting sexual deviants to the priesthood.

 

[Dr.Who]

Actually, I didn't read the article put out by the church, thinking that it just might not be totally unbiased. Scrolling through it, I see I was right about that, but still don't see any wild claims about there having only been one case of pedophilia among all of the thousands of celibate priests. That would, indeed, be proof that the requirement for celibacy is not attracting sexual deviants to the priesthood.

Perhaps I was not clear but since I would assume that you had at least done some diligent research and read the articles posted i did not think I needed to be overly clear.

Those "investigated" were those in the study posted. Here is the quote you missed and it is not wild at all.

"The Chicago study also found that of the 2,200 priests, just one was a pedophile."