Coruption

[tonychapman1]

The constitution our four fathers have laid down is no longer the way it was them years ago. I am only coming to this site for the first time and I feel I have a lot of problems with our government. Before George Bush's second term was up he made it so he and every president after him could declare Martial Law at any time!?! One of the biggest things that gets at me about our government is that the rich get richer and the poor stay stuck, no matter how you look at our government you can see the central design. The wonderful Democratic system our four fathers had founded has easily been transformed. It's hard to see but our government is gaining more and more power that they WEREN'T supposed to have, slowly our beloved democratic society is withering into a facism or a tyranny. So I ask the U.S. when you will realize we need a revolution. What was the point of Franklin, Washington, Hancock, all of them important people fighting the brittish to get freedom and then the French to keep freedom. The thing is that them men all busted ass to get the type of government every one would agree with everyone would be able to handle the power, but all the United States has done is prove them wrong.

 

[Dr.Who]

You have some good points. Welcome to the board.

 

[TheFranklinParty]

Welcome!

I agree that the central government model was never the plan of our founding fathers. We are a Democratic Republic and that means the Federal Government is driven by the states and the states are driven by the people; not the other way around.

I don't agree with your comment of the poor stay poor and the wealthy stay wealthy. I believe, and I'm an example of how you can come from meager beginnings and with effort, education, and a little luck anything is possible. It is my belief that too many people have lost faith and lost the desire to strive for something more. It's not easy and its not given...it's earned.

I do believe that much can be done to create transparency and clean up the special interest group influence over our political leaders, but it will take open eyed non-partisan objectivity and a great deal of courage. IMHO

 

[Dr.Who]

I also took issue with the comment that the poor stay poor and the rich get richer. there is a gap between rich and poor and it has gotten bigger but it should not be interpreted to mean that the poor stay poor and the rich get richer.

Many of the poor move into the middle class and many of the middle class move into the rich. Some of the middle class also move down into the poor, etc. In fact there is a lot of movement and cycling.

Another important thing to know is that the poor are better off than they were years ago and certainly better off than they are in many other countries. We are all moving up! Just some move up faster than others.

It is corruption that most stops people from moving up as fast as they otherwise would. It is socialism that would stagnate the movement of the middle class and the rich to reduce the gap. But none would move up as fast under socialism.

I would rather that we all do better even if a few will do much better than that we all experience mediocrity equally. In a just world we all have the equal opportunity to move up and the most people possible do. Even if our skills and chance hold some back more than others. Lets create that just world. then if poverty is still an issue we can talk about changing our government to address it. But changing the nature of our government too soon will just allow that injustice to take hold even stronger.

 

[AtheismIsReality]

Look up the concentration of wealth disparity and the likelihood of one's social mobility.

 

[tonychapman1]

Ha finally people that can understand what im saying and critique me in the areas it is needed.. I do understand what everyone is saying, but honostly if any of you who just said something about the rich and poor have evr complained about immigrants having this job or that then you have no right to complain about them. The people in other countries may have it worse as you said and please guys how long has it been this way? How can you say that any one can get up a class in society? I believe that is funny because it took African Americans how long just to be free and treated equal, wait they still get treated differently.. I guess if you ask me the system has it setup so that we make advances at such a slow place.. Do you understand how much money it costs to go to college so you can get a job? To rise a class in society you must have income and to have income high enough to raise you a class in society, you would have to go to college for a degree. If I'm sittin in the poor class how am i gonna get to college? Loans? Why, so you can pay an extra $25,000 compared to the rich guy who had his dad pay for all of college? I am not saying poor people are making much of an effort beli8eve me people who are on welfare, all that stuff I find truly disgusting if they arent trying. My mom started a job and they cut her food stamps and state aid, so she had to get another job and now we have a normal amount but my mom works and were getting off state. However my step mom has 3 kids that her husband has custody of and my little sister who she has custody of and she gets $500 in food stamps... it is kind of ridiculous.

 

[chestnut]

Dems vote not to strip Rangles chairmanship.

After all of his corrupt activities. He gets to keep his chair.


A perfect example of Washington Corruption.

How are we to beleive that Washington will ever do anything that really is for the people and not for themselves.

What a joke!

 

[dahermit]

What was the point of Franklin, Washington, Hancock, all of them important people fighting the brittish to get freedom and then the French to keep freedom.

Uh, if you are referring to the French and Indian war, it came before the Revolutionary War against Briton.

 

[Pidgey]

The answer to the disparity between The Rich and The Poor can be found right here:

The X-axis (horizontal) is essentially the wealth of a given household, the poorest on the far left and the richest on the far right.

The Y-axis (vertical) is essentially the size of the household, the lowest having the fewest and the highest having the most kids.

Inescapable conclusion: The Rich tend to sink their wealth into building capital whereas The Poor tend to have more children.

Moral of the Story: Absolutely NOTHING will drive you to the poorhouse faster than a bunch of kids!

(data extracted from IRS and Wikipedia, and graphed on Excel)

 

[tonychapman1]

Haha good moral of the story I guess...

 

[tonychapman1]

To you who asked if I meant the french Indian war... no I mean the Quasi-War a forgotten naval war between the U.S. and France

 

[dahermit]

The answer to the disparity between The Rich and The Poor can be found right here:

The X-axis (horizontal) is essentially the wealth of a given household, the poorest on the far left and the richest on the far right.

The Y-axis (vertical) is essentially the size of the household, the lowest having the fewest and the highest having the most kids.

Inescapable conclusion: The Rich tend to sink their wealth into building capital whereas The Poor tend to have more children.

Moral of the Story: Absolutely NOTHING will drive you to the poorhouse faster than a bunch of kids!

(data extracted from IRS and Wikipedia, and graphed on Excel)

An overpaid executive is not likely to become poor due to having too many childeren. However, poor having children will make them poorer.
something to consider:

The new data also shows that the top 300,000 Americans collectively enjoyed almost as much income as the bottom 150 million Americans. Per person, the top group received 440 times as much as the average person in the bottom half earned, nearly doubling the gap from 1980.

From:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/worldbusiness/29iht-income.4.5075504.html?_r=1

 

[Pidgey]

There's an old saying (many versions, take your pick) that goes something like:

"A rich man plans for three generations, a poor man for Saturday night."

When it actually comes to The Rich, it's not exactly like they're piling all of that money into a bank account somewhere lest it lose its value due to inflation. Most of it is a tally of their total "holdings", or the perceived value of their ownership of various companies and such. If they DO put money in the bank, it's STILL a victim of "fractional reserve banking" that's driving expansion in the economy as a whole. That is... right up until things start going to hell in a handbasket. In such a case (where we actually are now), their total net worths are dropping as well:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090930/tts-uk-usa-forbes-list-ca02f96.html

It's easy for those of us who are relatively poor compared to "Them" to laugh at their misfortunes. However, if that merriment must also go with the pain of losing our jobs, then it's a very bitter one.

 

[Pidgey]

But another interpretation of that graph is so simple that it can be easily missed: Exponential increase.

Any population of any species tends to increase exponentially if their food supply increases at the same rate. You just don't normally see that circumstance with most species due to Mother Nature. With us, the extraction, production, distribution and utilization of fossil fuels has bent the norm... a lot. As such, we now have a population that would otherwise be absolutely unsustainable the way we've set everything up with our use of energy in our industrialized world. Begin taking away that energy, and the Laws of Nature and the Laws of Physics are GOING to bite.

It's easy to envy The Rich and think that if they'd only share more, we'd all have a much better world. What we'd REALLY do is make a lot more people to have to share it with and then end up with the same problem only worse.

 

[dahermit]

But another interpretation of that graph is so simple that it can be easily missed: Exponential increase.

Any population of any species tends to increase exponentially if their food supply increases at the same rate. You just don't normally see that circumstance with most species due to Mother Nature. With us, the extraction, production, distribution and utilization of fossil fuels has bent the norm... a lot. As such, we now have a population that would otherwise be absolutely unsustainable the way we've set everything up with our use of energy in our industrialized world. Begin taking away that energy, and the Laws of Nature and the Laws of Physics are GOING to bite.

It's easy to envy The Rich and think that if they'd only share more, we'd all have a much better world. What we'd REALLY do is make a lot more people to have to share it with and then end up with the same problem only worse.

The population of the world is exploding no matter what we do. What scares the hell out of me is that I know what the last food resource is for starving people. (See Leningrad during the long Nazi siege of WWII.)