Boy Scouts now forbidden to bring penknives to camp

[Little-Acorn]

So far, this is only in England, nationwide. But you can expect it to spread to this country before too long. Such penknives are already forbidden at schools, and leftists have been steadily whipping up hysteria against any weapons of any kind, in the hands of regular people in any situation.

We have already seen the Boy Scouts publicly booed when they presented the American flag in public. Can such a ban be far behind?

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-longer-bring-penknives-on-camping-trips.html

Scouts to no longer bring penknives on camping trips

Scouts will now be a little worse prepared after they were banned from carrying their traditional penknives due to the fears of those in charge of health and safety.

By Chris Irvine
Published: 10:44AM BST 06 Sep 2009

New advice published in Scouting, the official in-house magazine, says neither Scouts nor their parents should bring penknives to camp except in "specific" situations.

Scouts have traditionally been taught how to use knives correctly, using them on camping trips to cut firewood or carve tools.

At one point Scouts were allowed to carry a sheath knife on their belt as part of their uniform although this is no longer the case. In recent years the Scout Association guidance has been that parents should carry knives to camps or meetings.

Dave Budd, a knife-maker who runs courses training Scouts about the safe use of blades, wrote that the growing problem of knife crime meant action had to be taken.

"Sadly, there is now confusion about when a Scout is allowed to carry a knife," he wrote. "The series of high-profile fatal stabbings [has] highlighted a growing knife culture in the UK.

(How many of them were committed by Boy Scouts, Dave? - LA)

"I think it is safest to assume that knives of any sort should not be carried by anybody to a Scout meeting or camp, unless there is likely to be a specific need for one. In that case, they should be kept by the Scout leaders and handed out as required."

Troops leaders however have said the decision is "very sad". Sheila Burgin, from 4th Sevenoaks Scout Group in Kent, said: "Scouts by law are allowed to have Swiss army knives. I think this is going too far – you just don’t know when a Scout will need a knife.

"It is also suggested that the leader keeps control of the knives when they go camping, but I think that is completely wrong. The first Scout Law is 'The Scout is to be trusted'.


(Sorry, Sheila, but the first law of liberal government is, "Our subjects cannot be trusted, they need to be ruled by us, to protect them from themselves, it's for their own good." - LA)

 

[Dr.Who]

The scouts are a private organization. This is one of their own rules right?

My son is a scout and he owns a knife. But he is not allowed to carry it or use it without asking me. Some of this may be changin times but I also remember back when I was in H.S. I used a knife for my after school job but was not supposed to carry it to school.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Dave Budd, a knife-maker who runs courses training Scouts about the safe use of blades, wrote that the growing problem of knife crime meant action had to be taken.
"Sadly, there is now confusion about when a Scout is allowed to carry a knife," he wrote. "The series of high-profile fatal stabbings [has] highlighted a growing knife culture in the UK.
(How many of them were committed by Boy Scouts, Dave? - LA)
"I think it is safest to assume that knives of any sort should not be carried by anybody to a Scout meeting or camp, unless there is likely to be a specific need for one. In that case, they should be kept by the Scout leaders and handed out as required."

As Den Parents and then Scout Leaders {while my husband was still alive} I totally agree with the decision.

While we were very responsible parents and responsible Pack leaders/Den leaders some of the children that were left in our charge during meetings and on over night camp outs were beyond being safe with those knives! It was very, very discouraging to see how a select few children behaved with such a serious weapon...we finally sent home notes with all of the boys that further meetings/camp outs/any function that involved our PACK/DEN we would not allow any knives to be brought into the group...period. If we had a project or an activity that we would need the knives then they would be supplied by us and handed out at the time of the project and then reclaimed and locked away.

That was all back in the 80's with boys from all walks of life and social structure...they were not like the days in the 50's-60's when my older brothers belonged to the Scouts and my father was a scout leader. NO, NOT AT ALL!!! The days of 'Dopey Opey & Mayberry RFD' are long gone!!!

 

[Little-Acorn]

While we were very responsible parents and responsible Pack leaders/Den leaders some of the children that were left in our charge during meetings and on over night camp outs were beyond being safe with those knives! It was very, very discouraging to see how a select few children behaved with such a serious weapon...

When those select few kids repeatedly disobeyed your instructions on how to safely handle knives, and you confiscated ONLY THEIR knives, and then after camp informed the parents of those select few kids that their kids were either on probationary status or had been kicked out of the troop for repeated dangerous behavior, how did the parents respond?

You did do that, didn't you?

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

When those select few kids repeatedly disobeyed your instructions on how to safely handle knives, and you confiscated ONLY THEIR knives, and then after camp informed the parents of those select few kids that their kids were either on probationary status or had been kicked out of the troop for repeated dangerous behavior, how did the parents respond?

You did do that, didn't you?

See, I love your attempt at making this a mountain out of a mole hill

Your scenario never happened...there weren't any repeat incidents...our pack mantra was 'all 4 one and 1 for all' and that was for everything...good/bad/ugly. We never kicked any boy out...we had two brothers move away...but we never kicked any boy out EVER. Not our style/technique...that might be how you handle situations but that wasn't how we did.
That option doesn't teach children anything, but if you worked with children as I have you would understand that concept

 

[Greco]

"So far, this is only in England, nationwide. But you can expect it to spread to this country before too long. Such penknives are already forbidden at schools, and leftists have been steadily whipping up hysteria against any weapons of any kind, in the hands of regular people in any situation.

We have already seen the Boy Scouts publicly booed when they presented the American flag in public. Can such a ban be far behind?"

Just curious... can you ever make a post without lying? I realize you're a wingnut and love to spew divisive hate speech, but your constant stream of lies are getting a bit tiresome.

 

[Little-Acorn]

See, I love your attempt at making this a mountain out of a mole hill

A mountain out of a mole hill? I'm not the one who deprived the entire troop of a normal Boy Scout activity, most of whom didn't deserve it, due to the actions of a few.

Your scenario never happened...there weren't any repeat incidents...

Of course not. You banned all knives. If you were to ban all cars in your state, there would also be no more car crashes.

our pack mantra was 'all 4 one and 1 for all' and that was for everything...good/bad/ugly.

It was very, very discouraging to see how a select few children behaved with such a serious weapon...

We never kicked any boy out...

It was very, very discouraging to see how a select few children behaved with such a serious weapon...

...but we never kicked any boy out EVER.

It was very, very discouraging to see how a select few children behaved with such a serious weapon...

Not our style/technique...

It was very, very discouraging to see how a select few children behaved with such a serious weapon...

that might be how you handle situations

We've never had a knife problem, but one kid showed up in his tent with a small bag of marijuana. He was immediately kicked out of the troop, and given a ride back to his home 30 minutes after it was found, during the middle of a resident camp.

No kids have since shown up with any kinds of drugs. And all of them are now convinced that drugs are a VERY serious matter. And they are also learning ALL the things Boy Scouts traditionally learn... and are working very hard at it. And they listen closely to what the Scoutmasters, counselers, and parents tell them. None of them will be deprived of Scout activities "due to the actions of a few"... they know that if they stay straight, they will get all the benefits of Scouting, and if they don't, they won't. And since they like the scouting activities, they stay straight. They trust the troop elders, and know they will never get a punishment they don't deserve, and that the elders will bend over backwards to make sure of that.... and that they WILL get punishments they do deserve.

That option doesn't teach children anything,

How would you know? Sounds like you've never tried it... because if you did try it, you'd find the same thing we have found in our troop: That that "option" teaches children a LOT. All of it good.

BTW, what's the purpose of your Scout troop? To teach safe, responsible, and enjoyable Scouting? Or to "prevent incidents"?

Apparently it's the latter... and you are perfectly willing to take away from them parts of the Scouting experience, knowledge, and skill, that most of them don't deserve to lose, all for the purpose of "preventing incidents".

but that wasn't how we did.

It was very, very discouraging to see how a select few children behaved with such a serious weapon...

It's striking how often that lack of action, and that sentiment, occur together.

There's a pattern here somewhere. Can you detect it?

 

[chestnut]

Teaching kids responsibility for the actions is one of the most important lessons parents and others involved with kids needs to understand.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

A mountain out of a mole hill? I'm not the one who deprived the entire troop of a normal Boy Scout activity, most of whom didn't deserve it, due to the actions of a few.

Your emotional hormones are kicking into over drive...JEEZ LOUISE do you always blow everything out of proportion in this manner

Our pack/den always took a vote on matters that affect the entire group: hence the mantra of "All 4 one and 1 for All" it was their idea, it was what they decided, and it was what we all signed off on. You really need to have someone read the posts to you...your emotional hysteria seem to cause your reading comprehension serious errors in UNDERSTANDING the ENGLISH MEANING!!! LOL

Of course not. You banned all knives. If you were to ban all cars in your state, there would also be no more car crashes.

WOW...you just lifted off and flew out into left field...your feet didn't even hit the terra firma...exaggeration and hysteria seem to be the direction that you drag a topic into for derailment.

We've never had a knife problem, but one kid showed up in his tent with a small bag of marijuana. He was immediately kicked out of the troop, and given a ride back to his home 30 minutes after it was found, during the middle of a resident camp.

Bully for you...again this has nothing to do with the common Swiss army knife that all cub scouts/boy scouts learn the responsibility of handling. Marijuana - ILLEGAL SUBSTANCE...totally different, totally illegal, totally not allowed. Why would that have anything to do with your knife topic? Your still out there in left field chasing butterflies and not paying attention and this is your topic!!!

No kids have since shown up with any kinds of drugs. And all of them are now convinced that drugs are a VERY serious matter.

Still nothing to do with the topic...Scouting & knives remember...HELLOOOOO are you listening or just playing with those cute butterflies out there in left field! LMAO

And they are also learning ALL the things Boy Scouts traditionally learn... and are working very hard at it. And they listen closely to what the Scoutmasters, counselers, and parents tell them.

Well, great...you finally wandered back in from the outer limits and circled the conversation back to the topic...great, pat yourself on the back...our group had 5 eagle scouts out of the 12 boys that we started with and we all were very, very proud of our accomplishments.

None of them will be deprived of Scout activities "due to the actions of a few"... they know that if they stay straight, they will get all the benefits of Scouting, and if they don't, they won't. And since they like the scouting activities, they stay straight. They trust the troop elders, and know they will never get a punishment they don't deserve, and that the elders will bend over backwards to make sure of that.... and that they WILL get punishments they do deserve.

***YAWN*** Great...now YOU'VE JUMPED THE FENCE AND ARE HEADING BACK OUT TO LEFT FIELD.
IS THERE ANY ROOM LEFT IN THAT BUBBLE THAT YOU LIVE IN...YOUR EGO IS EMENSE AND ALL BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION. YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASSume that we were not capable of succeeding in the way that we disciplined out troop. I would never have thought to be so crass/asinine to do that to you; but here you are being CRASS/ASININE and ASSuming that we were failures. YOU ARE A POMPUS ARSE AND YOUR REALLY GOOD AT IT TOO!!!

How would you know? Sounds like you've never tried it... because if you did try it, you'd find the same thing we have found in our troop: That that "option" teaches children a LOT. All of it good.
BTW, what's the purpose of your Scout troop? To teach safe, responsible, and enjoyable Scouting? Or to "prevent incidents"?
Apparently it's the latter... and you are perfectly willing to take away from them parts of the Scouting experience, knowledge, and skill, that most of them don't deserve to lose, all for the purpose of "preventing incidents".

Now here you've just sh!t all over yourself by spewing your diatribe and answering your own idiotic statements...are those voices in your head talking that loudly that you can't control the volume??? JEEZ LOUISE...watching the way in which you attempt to carry on a discussion is like listening to a group of schizoids off of their meds...they all talk in riddles and are generally talking to those inner voices too!!! ROTFLAMO...you are a HOOT!

It's striking how often that lack of action, and that sentiment, occur together.
There's a pattern here somewhere. Can you detect it?

Wait...wait...wait for it...it's coming...YEP, according to this medical text book you are 'f'ing nuts and should seek help immediately, run do not walk to the nearest emergency room and check yourself into the psych ward. And the entire world will be a much happier/safer place.

 

[Little-Acorn]

(Hysterical raving, insults, and namecalling deleted)

The purpose of the Boy Scouts has always been to teach kids basic outdoor skills, develop their confidence and ability to work together and individually, and teach them safe and productive ways to use various tools, from shears to knives to hammers to firearms to frying pans.

Apparently that goes agains tthe grain of certain people, whose response to a few scouts who don't do it right (or people outside scouting who don't do it right, if no abusive scouts can be found), is to delete the activity itself from the entire troop's agenda, rather than be the leaders they are supposed to be.

Thank God the troops (and Cub Scout packs) I have worked with, haven't been that way.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

The purpose of the Boy Scouts has always been to teach kids basic outdoor skills, develop their confidence and ability to work together and individually, and teach them safe and productive ways to use various tools, from shears to knives to hammers to firearms to frying pans.

Apparently that goes agains tthe grain of certain people, whose response to a few scouts who don't do it right (or people outside scouting who don't do it right, if no abusive scouts can be found), is to delete the http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt141YYUS activity itself from the entire troop's agenda, rather than be the leaders they are supposed to be.

Thank God the troops (and Cub Scout packs) I have worked with, haven't been that way.

You certianly THINK that you are all that and the bag of chips too...my, my, my

 

[samsara15]

When I was in the scouts, back around 1954, one Summer I went to scout camp. The week earlier than that, kids at the camp had been playing with hand made slings, throwing rocks at each other. Those slings could toss a rock a couple of hundred yards. One boy got hit in the head by one of those rocks, and was sent to the hospital, critically injured. I never heard whether or not he died, but he may have been brain damaged if he survived. 12-15 year old boys can do a lot of damage to each other, without meaning to do so, because the judgement is sometimes lacking.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

When I was in the scouts, back around 1954, one Summer I went to scout camp. The week earlier than that, kids at the camp had been playing with hand made slings, throwing rocks at each other. Those slings could toss a rock a couple of hundred yards. One boy got hit in the head by one of those rocks, and was sent to the hospital, critically injured. I never heard whether or not he died, but he may have been brain damaged if he survived. 12-15 year old boys can do a lot of damage to each other, without meaning to do so, because the judgement is sometimes lacking.

OMG...what a nightmare...bet it wasn't at Camp Perfect Palace that 'Liittle Nut Job' ran...hell he only had saintly boys...LMAO

 

[Little-Acorn]

When I was in the scouts, back around 1954, one Summer I went to scout camp. The week earlier than that, kids at the camp had been playing with hand made slings, throwing rocks at each other. Those slings could toss a rock a couple of hundred yards. One boy got hit in the head by one of those rocks, and was sent to the hospital, critically injured. I never heard whether or not he died, but he may have been brain damaged if he survived. 12-15 year old boys can do a lot of damage to each other, without meaning to do so, because the judgement is sometimes lacking.

(the usual poorly-spelled ravings and insults deleted)

And where were the Scoutmasters and other responsible adults?

Before firearms, slings were often used as hunting or war weapons. Injuries are hardly surprising.

 

[asur]

I'm thinking it's probably OK to disallow penknives in certain scout events.
It probably is safer with young boys.

Just as long as they don't ban knives all together.

Of course liberals and democrats have tried for years to destroy scouting
and ban weapons of many types!