black african civilizations prior to european clonalization and racist stereotypes

[hunter10]

i just recently started using this forum and was worried about the tales people chat of no black civilizations or nations prior to european contact. and i wanted to correct that. i also wanted to say something about the belief that savage blacks captured savage blacks and sold them to whites. i recently asked my great grand dad, who showed me some writings by an african ruler in the oyo empire in western nigeria. apparantly he was worried that the british where selling guns to another black nation the dahomey and that because the oyo empires attempts to replicate the rifles where unsuccessful they needed to trade more with the english.

unfortunately gold was not what the english wanted but slaves. in most african society prior to european colonialism. slavery was only used on people who commited grievious criminal acts and prisoners of war. and the slaves could work their way out to freedom, they could also have children who where free and their relatives could buy their freedom. some black nations like the nri kingdom even outlawed slavery and any slave that set foot on their land wes free. u see slavery in west africa was seen as being more humane than executing someone for murder as spilling blood was often seen as taboo. and they where many laws concerning the treatment of slaves. but when white people arrived the game changed because of guns. u see guns gave a nation advantages and when whites sold it to a particular black kingdom other kingdoms where afraid they would be dis advantaged and also sought after guns. at first gold and spices and cloth was enough for europeans, but with the discovery of gold and spices in north and south america, slaves where needed to covert these resources. and the only thing blacks had to trade where slaves for guns. so as a result blacks started selling their criminals into slavery thinking the same rules of slavery applied to whites, but we all know now that was different. so the slave raids only started when the kingdoms ran out of criminals and then started raiding other kingdoms and sometimes going to all out war just for slaves to get more guns. why more guns u say what did they need them for. well many people have forgotten that for centuries black africans have been resisting arab muslim invaders who wanted to forcefully enslave and convert them and needed every edge they could get get guns was to sell slaves and thus a vicious circle began. of course they where blacks who sold their own people out simply fo profit, but in what culture or race has such people not existed. i apologise to west african descendants of the slavery diaspora. and now i will list west african civilizations, which black people in america can take pride in.

from what i can tell the nok civilization is west africas oldest as it started in 1000bc and from what i can tell it started up isolated as they where no advanced cultural influences nearby. i still dont understand why when ancient africa is potrayed on tv is always mud huts. i mean the where walled cites roads, written languages , science, universities like in ancient timbuktu. some had flags and constitutions. an some where even democratic. so why are they not mentioned. mind u these links are only from west africa they are many more in central east and southern africa


west african
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nri_kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhay_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashanti_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanem-Bornu_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulani_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyo_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dahomey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolof_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nok
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausa_Kingdoms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandinka_Empire


central africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ndongo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunda_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Zimbabwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Mapungubwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutapa_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozwi_Empire

east africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axumite_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kerma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meroë
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makuria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobadia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alodia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt

southern africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakalava
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion


ps to add egypt was not a black civilization but nubia was. ancient egyptians where a mixture of nubians, and berbers, the only time it could have been described as a black kingdom was the time nubian kings conquered and ruled over it. present day egyptians are a result of arab, turkish, roman, and greek invaders.

my question is why does the media in general still insist on not showing ancient african cities, roads and politics except maybe some tiny villages whenever they want to represent ancient africa

 

[Gipper]

Re: black african civilizations prior to european clonalization and racist stereotype

Very interesting post and thank you for posting it. I was not aware of the African civilizations you mention.

However it was not just the English and Muslims who were slave traders. Most western Europeans engaged in the slave trade.

You fail to mention the English ended the slave trade thanks to their Christian beliefs. The Muslims continue to this very day enslaving Africans and doing much worse such as committing genocide of non-Muslim Africans. History is most important, but lets not gloss over the horrific actions being committed today.

Another point that needs more emphasis is the Muslims enslaved vastly more Africans than Westerners did. This fact is unknown to many today some of whom get great joy in condemning the West for slavery without any mention of Muslim actions.

 

[The Scotsman]

Re: black african civilizations prior to european clonalization and racist stereotype

my question is why does the media in general still insist on not showing ancient african cities, roads and politics except maybe some tiny villages whenever they want to represent ancient africa

......modern Africa and ancient Africa are the same thing! The black portion of the continent has not advanced.....well...... except the leaders of tribal governments learning ever more ingenious ways to kill, maim and terrorise the poeple which unfortunately typifies most of the country!

 

[AugustineJurnior]

i just recently started using this forum and was worried about the tales people chat of no black civilizations or nations prior to european contact. and i wanted to correct that. i also wanted to say something about the belief that savage blacks captured savage blacks and sold them to whites. i recently asked my great grand dad, who showed me some writings by an african ruler in the oyo empire in western nigeria. apparantly he was worried that the british where selling guns to another black nation the dahomey and that because the oyo empires attempts to replicate the rifles where unsuccessful they needed to trade more with the english.

unfortunately gold was not what the english wanted but slaves. in most african society prior to european colonialism. slavery was only used on people who commited grievious criminal acts and prisoners of war. and the slaves could work their way out to freedom, they could also have children who where free and their relatives could buy their freedom. some black nations like the nri kingdom even outlawed slavery and any slave that set foot on their land wes free. u see slavery in west africa was seen as being more humane than executing someone for murder as spilling blood was often seen as taboo. and they where many laws concerning the treatment of slaves. but when white people arrived the game changed because of guns. u see guns gave a nation advantages and when whites sold it to a particular black kingdom other kingdoms where afraid they would be dis advantaged and also sought after guns. at first gold and spices and cloth was enough for europeans, but with the discovery of gold and spices in north and south america, slaves where needed to covert these resources. and the only thing blacks had to trade where slaves for guns. so as a result blacks started selling their criminals into slavery thinking the same rules of slavery applied to whites, but we all know now that was different. so the slave raids only started when the kingdoms ran out of criminals and then started raiding other kingdoms and sometimes going to all out war just for slaves to get more guns. why more guns u say what did they need them for. well many people have forgotten that for centuries black africans have been resisting arab muslim invaders who wanted to forcefully enslave and convert them and needed every edge they could get get guns was to sell slaves and thus a vicious circle began. of course they where blacks who sold their own people out simply fo profit, but in what culture or race has such people not existed. i apologise to west african descendants of the slavery diaspora. and now i will list west african civilizations, which black people in america can take pride in.

from what i can tell the nok civilization is west africas oldest as it started in 1000bc and from what i can tell it started up isolated as they where no advanced cultural influences nearby. i still dont understand why when ancient africa is potrayed on tv is always mud huts. i mean the where walled cites roads, written languages , science, universities like in ancient timbuktu. some had flags and constitutions. an some where even democratic. so why are they not mentioned. mind u these links are only from west africa they are many more in central east and southern africa


west african
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nri_kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhay_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashanti_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanem-Bornu_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulani_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyo_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dahomey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolof_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nok
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausa_Kingdoms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandinka_Empire


central africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ndongo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunda_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Zimbabwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Mapungubwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutapa_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozwi_Empire

east africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axumite_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kerma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meroë
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makuria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobadia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alodia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt

southern africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakalava
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion


ps to add egypt was not a black civilization but nubia was. ancient egyptians where a mixture of nubians, and berbers, the only time it could have been described as a black kingdom was the time nubian kings conquered and ruled over it. present day egyptians are a result of arab, turkish, roman, and greek invaders.

my question is why does the media in general still insist on not showing ancient african cities, roads and politics except maybe some tiny villages whenever they want to represent ancient africa

My question is why do people reject Black Harvard Professors citing Black researchers of slavery

This is from Henry Louis Gates of Harvard

The historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders. The sad truth is that without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible, at least on the scale it occurred.

 

[Michael Henrik Wynn]

I am very worried about the threat to the Timbuktu manuscripts, they should be scanned and uploaded immediately, every single one. The Mali empire was once run by Mansa Musa, who is the richest man known to have lived on earth. When he traveled to mecca on his pilgrimage he spent so much gold that he crippled the economies in the countries he visited. His predecessor was Abu Bakr II. The most interesting things about him is that he may not have existed. There are scarse sources, and he is said to have disappeared while trying to cross the Atlantic, from Mali, a landlocked country. Although he could have used some rivers, i suppose.
But in addition, he shares his name with the first successor to Muhammed. So he clearly legitimizes the line of succession, whether he existed or not.

 

[Michael Henrik Wynn]

One of the greatest philosophers of the enlightenment was an African, Zera Yacoub, an ethiopian philosopher. Ethopia has a completely ignored intellectual tradition founded on a very elaborate educational system. Those who have studied Yacoub say he is many way almost an equal Kant. I have no idea whether this is a fact.

Some say that the welfare state was founded after WWII, but the ancient Angkor kingdom in Cambodia had a huge public health system in the middle ages, with hundreds of hospitals.

Another ignored intellectual tradition in the west is centered in the ancient Indian Nalanda university, which stood for 1000 years, from the time of Buddha til the Mongol invasion. It was a gigantic institution comparable to many modern universities in the number of students. The Chinese have had a state beurocracy for thousands of years, and they sent their emissaries, ambassadors, explorers and monks all over Asia, and these all reported back in writing. These are important historical sources today.

 

[Michael Henrik Wynn]

My question is why do people reject Black Harvard Professors citing Black researchers of slavery

This is from Henry Louis Gates of Harvard

The historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders. The sad truth is that without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible, at least on the scale it occurred.

There is some truth to this, unfortunately. The songay empire was in decline when the new world was discovered, and in order keep going they resorted to some selling of slaves. They also had a very bad leader at the end.

But you must remember that this does not excuse the insane brutality of the slave ships. It was a sort of nazi holocaust thing. The trade was also legitimized by the greatest genius of his age, David Hume, the philosopher. The odd thing is that we remember hume for having established epistemology and for making a philosophical transition from is to ought almost impossible. Yet, in his books on African the slave trade, hume violates his own is/ought distinction. So the best argument against hume is hume himself.

And there was also the pull factor or the demand for labor in the new world, and the willingness to use blacks and force them by nazi methods. I say nazis because it was violence at that level. This violence occurred along the entire chain from Africa to the plantations were the slaves worked. And then on the plantations. When you read Uncle Tom's cabin, you will notice that the reason why the book caused such a stir (and also why blacks today don't like the character) was that Uncle Tom was Jesus on the cross. And it is that same religious undercurrent you hear in negro spirituals. And there is hardly a person on earth today who can hear one of these songs and not feel something. Blacks do not like this, because they don't feel that they have any need to become Jesus in order to get what everyone else has. And of course they are right.

 

[mark francis]

i just recently started using this forum and was worried about the tales people chat of no black civilizations or nations prior to european contact. and i wanted to correct that. i also wanted to say something about the belief that savage blacks captured savage blacks and sold them to whites. i recently asked my great grand dad, who showed me some writings by an african ruler in the oyo empire in western nigeria. apparantly he was worried that the british where selling guns to another black nation the dahomey and that because the oyo empires attempts to replicate the rifles where unsuccessful they needed to trade more with the english.

unfortunately gold was not what the english wanted but slaves. in most african society prior to european colonialism. slavery was only used on people who commited grievious criminal acts and prisoners of war. and the slaves could work their way out to freedom, they could also have children who where free and their relatives could buy their freedom. some black nations like the nri kingdom even outlawed slavery and any slave that set foot on their land wes free. u see slavery in west africa was seen as being more humane than executing someone for murder as spilling blood was often seen as taboo. and they where many laws concerning the treatment of slaves. but when white people arrived the game changed because of guns. u see guns gave a nation advantages and when whites sold it to a particular black kingdom other kingdoms where afraid they would be dis advantaged and also sought after guns. at first gold and spices and cloth was enough for europeans, but with the discovery of gold and spices in north and south america, slaves where needed to covert these resources. and the only thing blacks had to trade where slaves for guns. so as a result blacks started selling their criminals into slavery thinking the same rules of slavery applied to whites, but we all know now that was different. so the slave raids only started when the kingdoms ran out of criminals and then started raiding other kingdoms and sometimes going to all out war just for slaves to get more guns. why more guns u say what did they need them for. well many people have forgotten that for centuries black africans have been resisting arab muslim invaders who wanted to forcefully enslave and convert them and needed every edge they could get get guns was to sell slaves and thus a vicious circle began. of course they where blacks who sold their own people out simply fo profit, but in what culture or race has such people not existed. i apologise to west african descendants of the slavery diaspora. and now i will list west african civilizations, which black people in america can take pride in.

from what i can tell the nok civilization is west africas oldest as it started in 1000bc and from what i can tell it started up isolated as they where no advanced cultural influences nearby. i still dont understand why when ancient africa is potrayed on tv is always mud huts. i mean the where walled cites roads, written languages , science, universities like in ancient timbuktu. some had flags and constitutions. an some where even democratic. so why are they not mentioned. mind u these links are only from west africa they are many more in central east and southern africa


west african
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nri_kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhay_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashanti_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanem-Bornu_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulani_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyo_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dahomey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolof_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nok
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausa_Kingdoms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandinka_Empire


central africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ndongo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunda_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Zimbabwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Mapungubwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutapa_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozwi_Empire

east africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axumite_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kerma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meroë
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makuria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobadia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alodia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt

southern africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakalava
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion


ps to add egypt was not a black civilization but nubia was. ancient egyptians where a mixture of nubians, and berbers, the only time it could have been described as a black kingdom was the time nubian kings conquered and ruled over it. present day egyptians are a result of arab, turkish, roman, and greek invaders.

my question is why does the media in general still insist on not showing ancient african cities, roads and politics except maybe some tiny villages whenever they want to represent ancient africa

According to Darwinian evolution theorists, the human race first originated in Africa as black humans first began to evolve from ignorant uncivilized animals.