A jewish cult

[Libsmasher]

Presumably, everyone knows that Jesus was a jewish rabbi. I've rarely heard people comment on the fact that Christianity started as a jewish cult, oddly surpassing by huge numbers it's parent religion. Are Christians the authentic jews?

 

[Pandora]

There is no Jew or Gentile, no free or bond, no man or woman
we are all one in Christ.

Cant remember what the exact vs. is but that is from the NT

 

[9sublime]

Christians should techincally regard themselves as authentic Jews. The reasoning behind this is that Jesus never denounced Judaism, but merely revamped it and declared himself the Son of God. Todays Jews refuse to accept his proposed changes to the religion or that he is the son of God.

Both could regard themselves as the authenic Jews.

 

[foggedinn]

Jesus declared himself to be "Son of Man", Christ(i.e. annointed one), and alpha and omega.

John the Baptist declared him to be The Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world.

The best explanation I have seen about "Son of Man", I found in the 3rd chapter of the book of Ezekiel. God assigned "Son of Man" the task of watchman. It is the task of watchman to sound the alarm. Ezekiel is both addressed as "Son of Man" and prophesy's to "Son of Man". In the book of Daniel, the angel Gabriel addresses Daniel as "Son of Man". Son of Man" is not a title unique to Christ Jesus.

Christ (the greek form), messiah (the hebrew form) simply means annointed one. Jesus was born under the law. No one born under the law can be priest and king in Israel, except he has the annointing oil poured on his head. The recipe for the annointing oil can be found in the book of the Exodus. No one except the priest can mix it or use it without being under God's wrath. I believe Jesus was annointed in the temple when he was twelve years old.

As for alpha and omega; I believe this is a reference to verse four in Psalm 110. He was telling anyone of knowledge that he was a priest in the order of Melchezidec.

The reference by John the Baptist (a levitical priest), was a direct reference to the sacraficial Lamb on the Day of Attonement as described in Leviticus 16.

To sum it up, there was nothing outside of mainstream Jewish teachings in what Jesus was or said. Even Nicodemus the Pharisee aknowledged that Jesus was "a teacher come from God".

At this point in time, Christianity isn't a cult, Judaism is.

 

[Pandora]

I disagree that Judaism is a cult or became a cult once christianity came.

those who became christians took what they wanted from judaism and jesus both and ran with it making their own deal. From what I can see that was not what they were told to do.

Judaism is still waiting on the messiah but also still trying to follow Torah as instructed.


both have it some what wrong but i supose for what they think are the right reasons.

if one is cult then they both are

 

[9sublime]

Most Christians I talk to reject a lot of the Old Testament, which in my opinion means they should reject the enitre book. You cannot reject some parts of the same book that you call the voice of God and divine scripture, and then believe in other parts of it.

 

[foggedinn]

Most Christians I talk to reject a lot of the Old Testament, which in my opinion means they should reject the enitre book. You cannot reject some parts of the same book that you call the voice of God and divine scripture, and then believe in other parts of it.

I don't reject a single word of the OT or NT. I can't say I compleatly understand it all, but I do accept it all on faith.

I disagree that Judaism is a cult or became a cult once christianity came.

those who became christians took what they wanted from judaism and jesus both and ran with it making their own deal. From what I can see that was not what they were told to do.

Judaism is still waiting on the messiah but also still trying to follow Torah as instructed.


both have it some what wrong but i supose for what they think are the right reasons.

if one is cult then they both are

In a sense, I consider both Judaism and Christianity both right and wrong.

The Jews are wrong to reject Jesus, and Christians are wrong to reject The Jewish idea that another annointed one is coming before Jesus returns.

Refering back to Leviticus 16, Jesus is the Lamb who was slain. The other annointed one (the one the Jews wait on) is the scapegoat. If Christians actually read the whole bible rather than just the NT, They would recognize the scapegoat being described in the second chapter of 2 Thess.

 

[Pandora]

I don't reject a single word of the OT or NT. I can't say I compleatly understand it all, but I do accept it all on faith.



In a sense, I consider both Judaism and Christianity both right and wrong.

The Jews are wrong to reject Jesus, and Christians are wrong to reject The Jewish idea that another annointed one is coming before Jesus returns.

Refering back to Leviticus 16, Jesus is the Lamb who was slain. The other annointed one (the one the Jews wait on) is the scapegoat. If Christians actually read the whole bible rather than just the NT, They would recognize the scapegoat being described in the second chapter of 2 Thess.

I think you and I agree a great deal.

 

[Libsmasher]

Most Christians I talk to reject a lot of the Old Testament, which in my opinion means they should reject the enitre book. You cannot reject some parts of the same book that you call the voice of God and divine scripture, and then believe in other parts of it.

Yep. I always get a laugh out of lib media talking heads saying, usually in the context of something on abortion or birth control or pro-statism, that the Church has to keep up with the times. The Christian Church is a 2000 year old institution based on timeless principles, not the latest liberal brainstorm.

 

[9sublime]

I don't reject a single word of the OT or NT. I can't say I compleatly understand it all, but I do accept it all on faith.

How! How?? Sorry, I'm genuinely not trying to disrespect your beliefs, I'm just curious how you can follow something so irrationally.

Do you believe in all the Jewish laws that are laid down in the Old Testament? Like sacrifices, and not going near a woman during her mensturation and various other bizzare and totally outdated laws. If you do not, I don't see how you can validly point to examples in the book to follow for a righteous life, and then reject others. Either it is all Holy, or it is not?

 

[oceanenvy]

Yep. I always get a laugh out of lib media talking heads saying, usually in the context of something on abortion or birth control or pro-statism, that the Church has to keep up with the times. The Christian Church is a 2000 year old institution based on timeless principles, not the latest liberal brainstorm.

The Christian church was founded based on the mores of the time though. There are both New and Old Testament references to slaves for instance. Why should this not changed? Women for instance were treated very differently 2000 years ago. I don't want to be treated like that anymore. there were no women involved in forming the original christian Church because of the mores of the time. Cultural mores of the time definitely influenced the writers of the new Testament.

 

[Libsmasher]

The Christian church was founded based on the mores of the time though.

Uh no, it was founded on changeless principles.

There are both New and Old Testament references to slaves for instance.

So what?

Why should this not changed? Women for instance were treated very differently 2000 years ago.

What does that have to do with anything?

I don't want to be treated like that anymore. there were no women involved in forming the original christian Church because of the mores of the time. Cultural mores of the time definitely influenced the writers of the new Testament.

You're throwing out insinuations. Get down to clear specific arguments supported by referenced facts or shut up.

 

[foggedinn]

How! How?? Sorry, I'm genuinely not trying to disrespect your beliefs, I'm just curious how you can follow something so irrationally.

25 years ago I was in a hopeless situation. I was falsely accused by men who had built a perfect case against me. In front of God and a couple of hundred people, I called on the name of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The Gospel of Mark chap.13 v. 11 was fulfilled on the spot. The case against me disintegrated.

There was nothing rational about what happened, but it happened anyway.

 

[oceanenvy]

Uh no, it was founded on changeless principles.



So what?



What does that have to do with anything?



You're throwing out insinuations. Get down to clear specific arguments supported by referenced facts or shut up.

You shut up. Geez, you are so clueless and yet so arrogant at the same time. What a combination. My reference to slavery in the bible proves that the bible was written based on the mores of the time. Or, are you in favor of keeping slavery as well? Should we also stone adulterers?

It is a fact that the hierarchy of the original Christian church was based on on understanding and mores at the time it was written. It is also why women can't be priests.