Woman in Bible & Quran!

What I meant was that both quran and new and old testaments cited stories of messengers but in a different way, while characters and places are the same.
For example, messengers in new and old testaments lie, cheat, steal properties and even commit adulltry, while these are considered as sins in christian and jewsh laws. But in quran This is no the case.
 
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Just want to make a point
Christianity was a divine religion that got mixed with loads of superstitious ideas. For one thing, the first versions of bible appeared decades after Jesus's so-called Ascension. How can bible's teachings be kept intact after several decades?
So I believe the current christian thoughts can't be assigned to real Christianity?

There is ample evidence to support that the synoptic gospels (at least mark and matthew) comes from a single source document (Q) that was written , quite possibly, by an eyewitness.
 
A better reason to find some parts of the Koran not matching , aside from translation or other things, is that the Koran was in effect a Living document over The Prophet Mohammad's life...It was given to him from God, part by part as things changed and Islam grew and came into new challenges. Things that may have been needed in order for the Word to spread and Mohammad to bring the message of Islam at the start, may not have meshed with the needs later as it had a more firm root. The Koran was never Written as once piece, but simply was organized more by what each part deals with, rather then a Chronological order, that would more greatly show the shifts over time.

I suppose one could use that same theory to show why the Old Testament is basically run by a cruel, needy, Wicked, bastard....and then the Jesus basically comes out with Love understanding forgiveness...ect....Things the "God" never really seemed to ever show himself in the bible in my view. ( I guess I can add Hypocrite )
 
I suppose one could use that same theory to show why the Old Testament is basically run by a cruel, needy, Wicked, bastard....and then the Jesus basically comes out with Love understanding forgiveness...ect....Things the "God" never really seemed to ever show himself in the bible in my view. ( I guess I can add Hypocrite )


There is a very simple reason: people who read the OT don't understand it and see what they want to imagine.

The God of the OT is the same as the God of the NT. In both He clearly shows Himself to be Holy, Just, and Loving.

However, the Bible is dispensational - revealing the whole plan gradually over time. In the OT His qualities of Justice and Holiness were emphasized while His qualities of Love were still present. In the NT his qualities of Love are emphasized while His qualities of Holiness and Justice are still present.

As an example, a God that could let dirty old men who rape children go unpunished would in no way be loving. Justice demands punishment and this is an aspect of love.

When one understands all three qualities; holiness, love, and justice and how they work together perfectly then God is much less hard to understand.
 
There is ample evidence to support that the synoptic gospels (at least mark and matthew) comes from a single source document (Q) that was written , quite possibly, by an eyewitness.

The very existence of Q seems to be more hypothetical than real. It would be even more dubious to decide that Mark and Matthew then draw from this one common source that may not even exist. I think it is more likely that both Mark and Matthew were written by the authors given credit for them.
 
The Bible is obviously going to be corrupted, edited and changed. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just not wanting to accept facts.

Any book that goes through 2000 years, numerous language translatisons, governments, competiton from other faiths and multiple authors is not going to be the same when it comes out the other end.
 
The Bible is obviously going to be corrupted, edited and changed. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just not wanting to accept facts.

Any book that goes through 2000 years, numerous language translatisons, governments, competiton from other faiths and multiple authors is not going to be the same when it comes out the other end.

As long as we posess the older versions we can correct the errors that creep into the copies.

At this point we do not posess the originals which were penned by the authors but we can recreate them pretty well.

I am not concerned about the New World Translations or the Mormon translations or even the mainstream translations that are just bad because we still have the ability to know what was in the originals to a very high degree of accuracy.
 
Hmm. Curious that you blame this on Christiandom but then proceed to cite mostly the Old Testament, which is included in the Christian Bible only to provide a more thorough context within which one can understand the revelation. But whatever.

Mostly this debate doesn't interest me. What the Bible says vs. what the Koran says is immaterial. What matters is that nearly every country where the followers of the Koran exist in any appreciable numbers dresses up their women like sacks of potatoes, subjects them to segregation, locks them up in the house, etc. If you're prepared to argue that Koranic societies today treat their women better than Christian ones do, I'd love to see what you have to offer.

Still, some of this is rife with sophistry and therefore worth getting into.

Women are considered as dirt that defiles men in the bible:

Revelation 14:4 "Those are those (men) who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb."

I don't see this as particularly controversial. It's a throwback to Corinthians 7:8-9, "Therefore to the unmarried and the widowed I say, it is better that you remain unmarried like me. But if you cannot control yourself, then you should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (i.e., if you can, never have sex except to procreate. But if you can't help it, at least get married first).

I don't see that it denigrates women especially here since they are presumably under the same injunction. The defiling lies in the act of sinful disobedience to God -- the means by which one does so (whether with women or with other men or even, say, goats) is immaterial.

The bible considers the Birth of any female is a loss: Ecclesiasticus 22:3 "....and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss" (From the New Jerusalem Bible. It's a Roman Catholics Bible).

Well, I don't have a copy of the Septuagint handy so I have no idea of the context in which this was written (nor would I be particularly inclined to defend it if I did -- I'm not Catholic). But I think it's curious that in your effort to attack the Bible you include something that isn't included in much of the world's Bibles.

Fathers can sell their daughters as slave girls: Exodus 21:7-8 "And in case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out in the way that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her."

Couple of things here:

(1) Again, this is the Old Testament. It's laws applied to Jews living under it at the time. It is not binding on Christians.

(2) Old Testament slave laws existed for the protection of slaves. They were rather, ahem, progressive by the standards of the time, given that most societies regarded slaves as barely even amounting to property.

(3) The Old Testament also provides rather detailed instructions for the ideal manner in which to clean fungus from between one's toes. I suppose you're going to tell me that Christians (or Jews) are therefore cleaner than Muslims?

Daughters inherit nothing when there are sons:
"If a man dies and leaves no son, turn his inheritance over to his daughter. (Numbers 27:8)" So the American law of splitting everything equally is not Biblical.

In other words, it establishes agnatic-cognatic primogeniture. Also pretty progressive for the standards of the time. In some societies of the day, if all the male descendents of a household were extinguished, their property reverted to the control of the ruler even if there were competent women still surviving.

In the bible:
To the woman (Eve) He (God) said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

IIRC this was punishment for Eve's behavior in the garden of Eden -- childbirth would be painful but they would still desire it nonetheless. Certainly not an arbitrary thing if one accepts Genesis as canon.

In Christianity: Woman is a daughter of falsehood (Saint John Damascene)


In Christianity: Woman is the fountain of the arm of the Devil, her voice is the hissing of the serpent (St. Anthony)

I thought you were citing the Bible here?

Ancient man was scared ****less of woman.

I've always thought the feminist trope about how ancient man was afraid of womankind was silly. What would man have to fear from them? Why not assume it was simply contempt for people perceived to be physically inferior?

More importantly: who really cares? Does the fact that a religion has been historically unkind to a particularly lefty constituency render it untrue?
 
The very existence of Q seems to be more hypothetical than real. It would be even more dubious to decide that Mark and Matthew then draw from this one common source that may not even exist. I think it is more likely that both Mark and Matthew were written by the authors given credit for them.

Of course its hypothetical. It would remain hypothetical until someone actually gets a hold of q.

It is hypothesized because mark and matthew share similar styles in sentence construction, chronology, and in some instance, exact phrases.

John, on the other hand, is an entirely different class on its own.
 
The Bible is obviously going to be corrupted, edited and changed. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just not wanting to accept facts.

Any book that goes through 2000 years, numerous language translatisons, governments, competiton from other faiths and multiple authors is not going to be the same when it comes out the other end.

That is exactly the reason why hermeneutics is applied to it -- as in all ancient documents. We need to sift fact from a mound of fancy. It is tedious work, of course, but eventually, we hope to get a clear picture of it.
 
That is exactly the reason why hermeneutics is applied to it -- as in all ancient documents. We need to sift fact from a mound of fancy. It is tedious work, of course, but eventually, we hope to get a clear picture of it.

But you wont. I applaud the work of the people involved to have got to far in finding the sources and other ways to prove the accuracy - but come on. It comes from 2,000 years ago, when the world was a very unreliable place.
 
But you wont. I applaud the work of the people involved to have got to far in finding the sources and other ways to prove the accuracy - but come on. It comes from 2,000 years ago, when the world was a very unreliable place.

Nonsense.

Archeology gets most of its important clues from documents -- even oral tradition -- dating back much farther than 2000 years ago.
 
The more you dig into the Bible, the more you will find it will have been manipulated and changed. I'm willing to put money on it.
 
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