Discussion in 'Culture & Religion' started by Dawkinsrocks, Nov 6, 2008.
this is just silly
how on earth can ANYONE explian what NO ONE knows for sure
Well christians keep banging on about how important it is to live the right life so that they can get access to heaven.
I thought that one of them might have actually considered the implications of this.
Sounds like they haven't and have been looking forward to something that sounds like hell.
that is their hope so they do what they do
why do you care what they do as long as it doesnt effect you?
why do you care what other people think about something that no one can possibly know how it really is?
Because if people can accept that the idea of heaven is actually counter productive they will probably see that the whole religious thing is nonesense.
Then they will live fulfilled lives.
They will stop promoting ignorance.
They will stop trying to discriminate against people who happen to be born gay.
They will keep their uninformed nose out of stem cell research.
They will stop thinking it is god's will to kill Iraqis
I think people who have faith already lead fullfilling lives, are you sure they and not you are the one promoting ignorance?
I dont think christians are the bigger problem against homosexuals, I think Islam has a less tolerent view of them. I think they already keep their uninformed noses out of stem cell research, the people who are against using a fetus just say dont make us as tax payers fund it. you can use your own money and fund it
being in iraq has nothing to do with chrisitans
where do you get your news exactly?
My argument is against religion.
Thanks for the support
And for the record the government should fund stem cell research
its not up to you what the American government funds or does not fund. If you think a government should fund it have your unnamed government fund it and we will figure our government out all on our own
also, what ever unnamed country you are from, get religion banned there first then worry about the ASS formerly known as the USA
Sorry kiddo. I couldn't answer sooner. I also have the misfortune to have a life on top of not believing as you do.
If you want to know what the point of going to heaven is then ask someone who believes they are going to go to heaven. I would start with a Muslim. All sects of Islam believe that they are taking the stairway to Heaven.
The answer to your question relative to Christianity is this: for THE SECOND TIME!
There is no point in spending eternity in heaven because there is NO PLACE in the Bible that says everlasting life for humans is in HEAVEN. I don't know how to say it any plainer. Heaven is God's turf. Earth is Jesus' turf. Therefore, according to the ideology that Jesus will reign over those who achieve this honor, that reign will be on earth. EARTH NOT HEAVEN! EARTH NOT HEAVEN. EARTH NOT HEAVEN. Need me to say it again? What will "this" paradise entail? Who the hell knows? Can't answer that anymore than your scientists can prove the orgin of life. They can only theorize too.
You can interpret what some Christians believe anyway you want. Different branches of the Christian church sure seem to interpret the Bible any way they want, so have at it. STILL you are confusing religion (rules) with faith. The Bible for the most part is a great historical book. If you are thinking that everyone who likes Jesus better than some other "prophet" believes every word of the Bible then you are just wrong. I just
proved that one. The only thing that can be proven about any "religious" book is that they were in fact written by a man, not God. I manage to have faith in God, and believe that Jesus was a good guy without pulling out the Bible every day or every Sunday. I guess other people forget, who knows?
Here is another example of misinterpretation of the words in the Bible: Jesus said, ( and sue me if I get the exact wording wrong, 'cause I don't want to look it up) "I say to you today that you will be in paradise with me". If you put the comma after "you", then it means that you will be in paradise with me today. If you put the comma after today, then it means you will be in paradise with me.... whenever. There are Christians who interpret that as the comma being after you. However, since according to the story Jesus didn't ascend "THAT DAY", I guess he couldn't have taken anybody anywhere that day, eh? Did God write that in the Bible with puctuation? I'm gonna say NO. That was perhaps a a human, a constipated monk, perhaps even.....a scientist in his day. Go ahead and take issue with those who interpret any religious book as being the same as faith. I don't agree with them either, but I don't hate 'em. I just don't hang with 'em. Solved that problem easily enough.
I have always and only contended that I believe in God and that I like Jesus' message and method. I have also repeatedly said that the Bible is full of parables. The Bible is a book. It is not faith. Christianity is a religion. Not faith. Islam is a religion. Not faith.
Now, either you just don't want to admit that there is a difference or you are mentally incapable of doing so. Which is it?
As for answering questions, I have also repeatedly asked you to point out where in the Bible that you seem to think you know so well, where it says "you will go to heaven when you die". This thread was your baby, so you must have known what you were talking about when you opened it, or you get to be the dunce for the day. Answer that question or lose all credibility in your argument. It works both ways. Your inability to answer it is for two reasons. It isn't there, and you have never read the book or probably any variety of sources relative to this particular religion.
Your arguments are very akin to the limited verbage of a parrot.
If eternity entails no illness, no reason for hatred among peoples, then I guess I could stand it. If you can't, then you are on the right track to avoid it.
Generally however, mature adults like you seem to envision yourself to be, just walk away from concepts they disdain, or people they don't like. They don't make a life out of hating them. Especially when it isn't doing anything to them. That my dear, is about as close to there being a hell as I would believe exists.
Now, you wanna ask again, about going to heaven?
Superiority? That would be your stint. You care whether someone has faith in God. You go balls out to try to make them feel bad about themselves because of it, and your only weapon is the assumption that something that cannot be proved does not exist. Yet, you can't prove that man's theories on the subject are true either. You just can't. You probably aren't that one guy in the history of the world who is going to do that.
I'll be more than happy to let you have the last word if that is something that makes you happy. That's a youth thing. I think you don't want to be happy. You just want to find some cause to feel anger about. If that is what you are doing with your life, you are getting it wrong.
I hope science comes up with something to help you with that. Oh yeah they did, it's called Zoloft.
Our government in the us should not fund any research. That is not a power originally granted to it in the constitution.
But it does fund stem cell research. There is a lot of funding going into the promising field of adult stem cell research. There is even a small amount of funding going into the not so promising field of embrionic stem cell research.
The funding is appropriate divided between the two (if you ignore that none of it should be a role of gov to begin with).
The only reason this becomes a political issue is that religious conservatives do not want any funding of embrionic stem cell research and liberals just want to oppose what religious conservatives want.
OK, now back to the point which is, what is the point of eternal life in heaven?
Unfortunatelky I am not a skilled chryptographer so I just cannot make head nor tail of the essay you kindly wrote in the time you took out from having a life.
Save to say that it appears that you don't think that the bible is literal or a 'fax from god'.
This means that anyone can interpret any of it any way they like which might give comfort to those who can't face truths that trouble them but it seriously damages the arguments of the deluded who cite the bible as evidence of god's existence.
Now, correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like your long explanation of the poin of heaven is that you don't know what the point is. Is that right?
If you respond, and I know you have a life so I may have to wait an extra few minutes, could you respond in a single paragraph of plain English please?
Dawkins, your inability to comprehend isn't my problem. Is it?
No but your inablity to express yourself clearly and comcisely is.
One assumes that youy want to be understood otherwise there is no point posting.
So hahve another go.
Explain what is the point of living forever in heaven.
Take it to an upperclassman, a fourth grader. They will be able to understand it. Or, you could just have some honor and class and admit that you have been owned. Poor little child.
If I were in your shoes I would like nothing more than to stick a clear concise explanation of the point of eternal life in heaven to me to shut me up once and for all.
The only reasonable conclusion available to those reading these posts is that you can't.
Please don't embarrass yourself further with condescension, attempted putdowns, assumption of superiority or any of the other issue-avoiding tactics you employ.
Just tell me what is the ****ing point of living forever in heaven is.
Is that a simple enough sentence for your mentality that did not evolve past the simian stage?
Show me the words in the bible that state: "Eternal life for humans is in Heaven" or shut the **** up once and for all. You don't get to use your interpretation of what you think certain Christians believe. You have to show me the words, not employ issue avoiding tactics.
I'm sorry, I forgot, you don't believe in eternal life in heaven.
It is sooo confusing.
Every christian you talk to has a different version of the truth.
Usually in the face of new evidence.
Ok, so eternal life in heaven is not the reward for doing as you are told.
Separate names with a comma.