What if JFK assassination was different?

[Soupnazi630]

Re: The driver killed Kennedy

The driver shot JFK clearly and obviously but the zapruder film needed to be picked apart and analyzed by someone and that someone turned out to be me.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xesq49_jfk-assassination-films-orville-nix_news

Nix film close-up shows Greer's arm crossing over

I got this gif from this clip. Start it at 1:09 and see Greer quickly moving his left arm over his shoulder in unison with the headshot. The nix film was not shown close-up but when this sequence is zoomed in on the limo, this whopper is revealed. The goons covered those movements with fakery in the zfilm but could not or didn't bother with the nix film.

THE FAKE GREY STREAK covered Greer's arm movement in the zfilm and the nix film proves that alteration beyond any doubt. Case Closed, finally.

The driver killed Kennedy and the Nix film provides conclusive proof to this inevitable truth.

Greer's arm moves n the NIX film but as anyone viewing it can tell his arm does not " cross over so that his left hand is over his right shoulder. In addition the NIX film nor the Z film shows any gun or gun fire nor did any witnesses see or hear him fire a gun which they could not have missed.

There is no evidence that anyone used fakery to hide anything in the Zapruder film your claim that they did so is your assertion only which you need to believe to support the rest of your fiction which has no evidence

Greer did not kill Kennedy and you have no Evidence that he did

 

[Soupnazi630]

Re: The fake reflection over Roy's head is fake

Here ya go, Steve. Mary took her pic at zframe 309 and in it, the fake blob of white is entirely missing from Roy's head because it was added during alteration to cover the gun over Greer's shoulder. Connally's reflection is accurately depicted in both the pic and film for authenticity.

The fake reflection was NOT added to the nix or muchmore films.

That is because two or more DIFFERENT cameras with different shutter speeds and different films photographing the same object from two different directions wull not show the same reflections or flares of light.

This is simple fact.

Get a camera and take a picture of someone then at the same time have someone else take a picture of the other side of that person you will not see the same reflections of light .

You have no evidence of fakery or alteration only an assertion.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Re: The driver placed gun in left hand with his right

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
Thanks to the zfilm, the cover-up is now unravelling by simply watching (and NOT ignoring) the driver's movements before, during and after the fatal shot he fires. Greer has both hands off the wheel at frame 241 and his right hand with the gun meets his left hand at 242.
FRAME 241.

Places gun in left hand with right.

People move their hands around when driving a car.

There is no gun in the film.

Your claim he passed a gun is wishful thinking no matter how much you zoom in or stare at the film there is no gun in it

 

[Soupnazi630]

Re: What if JFK assassination was differant?

The only delusion is claiming that there's NOT a gun in this image and that Greer DID NOT PLACE A COVERED UP OBJECT IN HIS LEFT HAND WITH HIS RIGHT HAND.

There is one, try an eye doctor.

In every thread you join you make the same claims and no one agrees with you.

The delusion is claiming a gun is covered up when no one can see it.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Re: What if JFK assassination was differant?

This video isn't exactly on topic, but it's relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

If that link goes dead, do a YouTube search on "JFK assassination: Secret Service Standdown".

The two agents who normally ride on the back of a president's limo were told to get off.

Wrong.

The agents were often told to stay off the limo and in this case they were told to do so as well by direction of Kennedy himself.

He did not want them riding on the limo and that is that. So unless he were part of the conspiracy this means nothing

 

[7forever]

Americans always rejected the official LHO myth

Legacy of Suspicion
Decades After, Few Accept the Official Explanation for JFK Assassination

Analysis
By Gary Langer

Nov. 16— Forty years later, suspicions of a conspiracy endure: Seven in 10 Americans think the assassination of John F. Kennedy was the result of a plot, not the act of a lone killer — and a bare majority thinks that plot included a second shooter on Dealey Plaza.
ABCNEWS has completed a poll in conjunction with a two-hour ABCNEWS special, Peter Jennings Reporting: The Kennedy Assassination — Beyond Conspiracy, airing 9-11 p.m. (EST) Thursday, Nov. 20. The program includes a computer-generated reconstruction of the shooting that confirms that Oswald was the lone gunman. And it finds no persuasive evidence of a conspiracy to kill the president.

Just 32 percent accept the Warren Commission's 1964 finding that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone when he shot Kennedy as his motorcade passed through downtown Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. Fifty-one percent think there was a second gunman, and seven percent go so far as to think Oswald wasn't involved at all.

Sixty-eight percent of Americans also think there was "an official cover-up" to hide the truth about the assassination from the public. And about as many, 65 percent, think that "important unanswered questions" remain, four decades after Kennedy's death.

While such suspicions are well-documented — and well-stoked by conspiracy theorists — for many people they're guesses, not convictions. In a new follow-up question, fewer than half of Americans, four in 10, say they're "pretty sure" there was a plot; another three in 10 say it's just a hunch. Similarly, half of those who suspect a second shooter say this, too, is just their hunch.

Trend

Suspicion has been long-running; as far back as 1966, a Harris poll found that 46 percent of Americans thought there was a "broader plot" in the assassination. This jumped to 60 percent in 1967, after New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison filed charges alleging a conspiracy (the man he charged, Clay Shaw, was acquitted in 1969).


Kennedy Assasination, 40 Years Later
Time Suspect a Plot Think it Was One Man
Sep. 66 46% 34
Feb. 67 44 35
Sep. 67 60 24
Nov. 83 80 13
Dec. 91 73 11
Nov. 03 70 22




Belief in a broader plot peaked at 80 percent in a 1983 ABCNEWS poll; it's since eased a bit, to today's 70 percent. Similarly, the number of people who think there was an official cover-up has moved back from its peak, 81 percent in 1993, to 68 percent now.

The Film

The director Oliver Stone reinvigorated the debate with the December 1991 release of JFK, his film based on Garrison's investigation. The movie today is widely known — four in 10 Americans say they've seen it, and nearly as many have heard or read about it. But its impact on public opinion is debatable.

Twenty percent of Americans say the film made them more likely to think there was a conspiracy behind the assassination. But many of them may have held that view even without the film's influence. The overall number who suspect a conspiracy is the same now as it was in a poll leading up to the movie's release, before many people had a chance to see it. And as noted, suspicions of a plot peaked in 1983, long before the film was made.

The movie in any case has attracted a conspiracy-minded crowd. Suspicion of a plot peaks at 81 percent of those who've seen it, compared to about six in 10 of those who've only heard or read about it, or don't know about it at all. Similarly, 63 percent of viewers suspect there was a second gunman; that declines to 43 percent of those who haven't seen the film. And 78 percent of viewers suspect a cover-up, compared to 61 percent of non-viewers. But this doesn't necessarily mean that seeing the movie creates suspicion; it could be instead that suspicious people have been drawn to the film.

ABCNEWS.com : Poll: Lingering Suspicion Over JFK Assassination

 

[Soupnazi630]

Re: Americans always rejected the official LHO myth

Legacy of Suspicion
Decades After, Few Accept the Official Explanation for JFK Assassination

Analysis
By Gary Langer

Nov. 16— Forty years later, suspicions of a conspiracy endure: Seven in 10 Americans think the assassination of John F. Kennedy was the result of a plot, not the act of a lone killer — and a bare majority thinks that plot included a second shooter on Dealey Plaza.
ABCNEWS has completed a poll in conjunction with a two-hour ABCNEWS special, Peter Jennings Reporting: The Kennedy Assassination — Beyond Conspiracy, airing 9-11 p.m. (EST) Thursday, Nov. 20. The program includes a computer-generated reconstruction of the shooting that confirms that Oswald was the lone gunman. And it finds no persuasive evidence of a conspiracy to kill the president.

Just 32 percent accept the Warren Commission's 1964 finding that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone when he shot Kennedy as his motorcade passed through downtown Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. Fifty-one percent think there was a second gunman, and seven percent go so far as to think Oswald wasn't involved at all.

Sixty-eight percent of Americans also think there was "an official cover-up" to hide the truth about the assassination from the public. And about as many, 65 percent, think that "important unanswered questions" remain, four decades after Kennedy's death.

While such suspicions are well-documented — and well-stoked by conspiracy theorists — for many people they're guesses, not convictions. In a new follow-up question, fewer than half of Americans, four in 10, say they're "pretty sure" there was a plot; another three in 10 say it's just a hunch. Similarly, half of those who suspect a second shooter say this, too, is just their hunch.

Trend

Suspicion has been long-running; as far back as 1966, a Harris poll found that 46 percent of Americans thought there was a "broader plot" in the assassination. This jumped to 60 percent in 1967, after New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison filed charges alleging a conspiracy (the man he charged, Clay Shaw, was acquitted in 1969).


Kennedy Assasination, 40 Years Later
Time Suspect a Plot Think it Was One Man
Sep. 66 46% 34
Feb. 67 44 35
Sep. 67 60 24
Nov. 83 80 13
Dec. 91 73 11
Nov. 03 70 22




Belief in a broader plot peaked at 80 percent in a 1983 ABCNEWS poll; it's since eased a bit, to today's 70 percent. Similarly, the number of people who think there was an official cover-up has moved back from its peak, 81 percent in 1993, to 68 percent now.

The Film

The director Oliver Stone reinvigorated the debate with the December 1991 release of JFK, his film based on Garrison's investigation. The movie today is widely known — four in 10 Americans say they've seen it, and nearly as many have heard or read about it. But its impact on public opinion is debatable.

Twenty percent of Americans say the film made them more likely to think there was a conspiracy behind the assassination. But many of them may have held that view even without the film's influence. The overall number who suspect a conspiracy is the same now as it was in a poll leading up to the movie's release, before many people had a chance to see it. And as noted, suspicions of a plot peaked in 1983, long before the film was made.

The movie in any case has attracted a conspiracy-minded crowd. Suspicion of a plot peaks at 81 percent of those who've seen it, compared to about six in 10 of those who've only heard or read about it, or don't know about it at all. Similarly, 63 percent of viewers suspect there was a second gunman; that declines to 43 percent of those who haven't seen the film. And 78 percent of viewers suspect a cover-up, compared to 61 percent of non-viewers. But this doesn't necessarily mean that seeing the movie creates suspicion; it could be instead that suspicious people have been drawn to the film.

ABCNEWS.com : Poll: Lingering Suspicion Over JFK Assassination

This is because it is proven fact that most Americans ( like you ) have never read anything EXCEPT conspiracy theory they ignore and never bother to read such information as the Warren commission report.

Yes seeing a movie like JFK which is overwhelmingly fiction creates suspicion.

Most people enjoy a good conspiracy theory and not reality which is somewhat boring in comparison.

Finally consensus or majority opinion does not define truth, if it did the world would have been flat at one time.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Re: Connally saw Greer shoot jfk

Connally said he saw the fatal shot and quickly corrected himself but his reaction when looking at Greer proves he slipped up. Watch him hit the floor in horror once he realized Greer shot Kennedy.

Obviously, at least the major wound that I took in the shoulder through the chest couldn't have been anything but the second shot. Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.

He did not realize Greer shot Kennedy you are imagining he did.

 

[dahermit]

Re: Warren commission crazies still around

FRAME 337.

Three observations:
1) Full metal jacket bullets do not blow big holes, do not cause blood and brain matter to be ejected.
2) Full metal jacketed bullets do not cause blood and brain matter to be ejected in the same direction from where the bullet came from.
3) Jacketed hollow-pointed and/or frangible bullets will cause a cone of blood and brain matter to be ejected but it will be in the opposite direction from the bullet entrance wound.

It can be concluded that:
1) The bullet came from the rear of Kennedy's head.
2) The bullet was not a 168 grain, full metal patch bullet that authorities state Oswald used.
3) The bullet was more likely a hollow-point or frangible bullet.
4) There is a possibility/likelihood that Oswald was not the shooter, and/or not the only shooter.
5) The driver did not shoot Kennedy.

Note: I am a shooter who shoots 1,000's of rounds a year, make my own bullets, am a former rifle competitor, have been shooting and hand loading since the middle sixties. Am very knowledgeable about firearms and bullets, and have witnessed the effects upon living tissue in many, many instances.

 

[dahermit]

Re: Warren commission crazies still around

FRAME 337.

Three observations:
1) Full metal jacket bullets do not blow big holes, do not cause blood and brain matter to be ejected.
2) Full metal jacketed bullets do not cause blood and brain matter to be ejected in the same direction from where the bullet came from.
3) Jacketed hollow-pointed and/or frangible bullets will cause a cone of blood and brain matter to be ejected but it will be in the opposite direction from the bullet entrance wound. If the bullet came from the front, the cone of blood/brain matter would have been ejected to the rear.
It can be concluded that:
1) The bullet came from the rear of Kennedy's head.
2) The bullet was not a 168 grain, full metal patch bullet that authorities state Oswald used.
3) The bullet was more likely a hollow-point or frangible bullet.
4) There is a possibility/likelihood that Oswald was not the shooter, and/or not the only shooter.
5) The driver did not shoot Kennedy.

Note: I am a shooter who shoots 1,000's of rounds a year, make my own bullets, am a former rifle competitor, have been shooting and hand loading since the middle sixties. Am very knowledgeable about firearms and bullets, and have witnessed the effects upon living tissue in many, many instances.

 

[7forever]

Classic mocks of lying idiots

Jackie was holding on to him after he was shot and probably moved him backwards. I don't see him flying backwards "violently" as you say.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Re: Warren commission crazies still around

FRAME 337.

Three observations:
1) Full metal jacket bullets do not blow big holes, do not cause blood and brain matter to be ejected.
2) Full metal jacketed bullets do not cause blood and brain matter to be ejected in the same direction from where the bullet came from.
3) Jacketed hollow-pointed and/or frangible bullets will cause a cone of blood and brain matter to be ejected but it will be in the opposite direction from the bullet entrance wound.

It can be concluded that:
1) The bullet came from the rear of Kennedy's head.
2) The bullet was not a 168 grain, full metal patch bullet that authorities state Oswald used.
3) The bullet was more likely a hollow-point or frangible bullet.
4) There is a possibility/likelihood that Oswald was not the shooter, and/or not the only shooter.
5) The driver did not shoot Kennedy.

Note: I am a shooter who shoots 1,000's of rounds a year, make my own bullets, am a former rifle competitor, have been shooting and hand loading since the middle sixties. Am very knowledgeable about firearms and bullets, and have witnessed the effects upon living tissue in many, many instances.

Noted and we have a lot in common I have been a rifle competitor as well and I reload my own ammo and go shooting frequently.

Nevertheless you are in error here.

The Only big hole was to Kennedy's Head and yes in fact Full metal Jacket bullet can and frequently do cause such massive trauma to people's heads.
Not so much to the body.

The evidence conclusively proves Oswald was the shooter using his Carcano.

You are absolutely correct that Greer did not and could not have done it.

 

[7forever]

Re: What if JFK assassination was differant?

f

As for the" Fact- End of "remark I am sorry if it was so "Fact End of" ,why did they spend time and money on the Warren commission ? Because it was not a "Fact End of" case .

Sadly, some people still do not accept the 'verdict' of the Warren Commission report but either way, The shots were fired from the SBD and this 'fact' is supported in every reputable investigation into the shooting. Only the CT crew favour 'alternative' locations/assassins and with very little credible evidence to support these claims.

Not surprisingly, Americans have always rejected the completely absurd official story. Very few people still accept the Warren Commission report but either way, Oswald did not fire either of the two frontal shots jfk suffered. Only the lone nutters still live in a fantasy world.

 

[7forever]

Americans always rejected the official lho myth

Legacy of Suspicion
Decades After, Few Accept the Official Explanation for JFK Assassination

Analysis
By Gary Langer

Nov. 16— Forty years later, suspicions of a conspiracy endure: Seven in 10 Americans think the assassination of John F. Kennedy was the result of a plot, not the act of a lone killer — and a bare majority thinks that plot included a second shooter on Dealey Plaza.
ABCNEWS has completed a poll in conjunction with a two-hour ABCNEWS special, Peter Jennings Reporting: The Kennedy Assassination — Beyond Conspiracy, airing 9-11 p.m. (EST) Thursday, Nov. 20. The program includes a computer-generated reconstruction of the shooting that confirms that Oswald was the lone gunman. And it finds no persuasive evidence of a conspiracy to kill the president.

Just 32 percent accept the Warren Commission's 1964 finding that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone when he shot Kennedy as his motorcade passed through downtown Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. Fifty-one percent think there was a second gunman, and seven percent go so far as to think Oswald wasn't involved at all.

Sixty-eight percent of Americans also think there was "an official cover-up" to hide the truth about the assassination from the public. And about as many, 65 percent, think that "important unanswered questions" remain, four decades after Kennedy's death.

While such suspicions are well-documented — and well-stoked by conspiracy theorists — for many people they're guesses, not convictions. In a new follow-up question, fewer than half of Americans, four in 10, say they're "pretty sure" there was a plot; another three in 10 say it's just a hunch. Similarly, half of those who suspect a second shooter say this, too, is just their hunch.

Trend

Suspicion has been long-running; as far back as 1966, a Harris poll found that 46 percent of Americans thought there was a "broader plot" in the assassination. This jumped to 60 percent in 1967, after New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison filed charges alleging a conspiracy (the man he charged, Clay Shaw, was acquitted in 1969).


Kennedy Assasination, 40 Years Later
Time Suspect a Plot Think it Was One Man
Sep. 66 46% 34
Feb. 67 44 35
Sep. 67 60 24
Nov. 83 80 13
Dec. 91 73 11
Nov. 03 70 22




Belief in a broader plot peaked at 80 percent in a 1983 ABCNEWS poll; it's since eased a bit, to today's 70 percent. Similarly, the number of people who think there was an official cover-up has moved back from its peak, 81 percent in 1993, to 68 percent now.

The Film

The director Oliver Stone reinvigorated the debate with the December 1991 release of JFK, his film based on Garrison's investigation. The movie today is widely known — four in 10 Americans say they've seen it, and nearly as many have heard or read about it. But its impact on public opinion is debatable.

Twenty percent of Americans say the film made them more likely to think there was a conspiracy behind the assassination. But many of them may have held that view even without the film's influence. The overall number who suspect a conspiracy is the same now as it was in a poll leading up to the movie's release, before many people had a chance to see it. And as noted, suspicions of a plot peaked in 1983, long before the film was made.

The movie in any case has attracted a conspiracy-minded crowd. Suspicion of a plot peaks at 81 percent of those who've seen it, compared to about six in 10 of those who've only heard or read about it, or don't know about it at all. Similarly, 63 percent of viewers suspect there was a second gunman; that declines to 43 percent of those who haven't seen the film. And 78 percent of viewers suspect a cover-up, compared to 61 percent of non-viewers. But this doesn't necessarily mean that seeing the movie creates suspicion; it could be instead that suspicious people have been drawn to the film.

ABCNEWS.com : Poll: Lingering Suspicion Over JFK Assassination

 

[dahermit]

Re: Warren commission crazies still around

Nevertheless you are in error here.

You are absolutely correct that Greer did not and could not have done it.

I am just making observations and postulating. I have no strong conviction, pro or con, concerning the "one shooter theory". I have many questions about the incident that have never seen a convincing answer.