What do you think of Independents

[Mr. Harris]

I think independents are generally very full of themselves. I hear all of the time how standing on the principles I believe in makes me a tool of the establishment. Apparently true intellectualism is the pursuit of a mealy mouthed I'm for everything your for, and against everything your against brand of politics. I can't tell you how many hard left liberals I have heard explaining to me how "independent" they are. They seem to wear it as some kind of badge of honor. See you can't argue with what I'm saying because I take into account all positions and make the best judgments possible.

It is my position that there is nothing wrong with partisanship, except when it is partisanship just for the sake of partisanship. I don't believe I should have to screw up my good idea stew so that I can add in some rancid meat some liberal brought to the party just so that all will feel good about how everyone present contributed to the stew. I like how Gen said it in another thread. If I believe that 2 + 2 is four, I am right, that is reality. If you believe that 2 + 2 is 5, you are wrong, and the fact that it "feels right" to you is irrelevant. If in the interest of bipartisanship we settle on 2 + 2 being 4.5 we are now both wrong.

I get tired of hearing "independents" prattle about how they "vote for the person, not the party". "The person" wouldn't be a member of a particular party if they didn't have a lot in common with it. The parties aren't just teams that wear different colors, they have ideologically conflicting positions on every major issue, and the candidates the parties support reflect those positions to varying degrees. So when I hear people pompously tell me that they "vote for the person, not the party" what I hear them saying is "I vote for the guy who is the best looking on TV and gives the best sounding speeches with the most feel good plattitudes, I don't vote based on what they are saying".

Thats the people not the Independents. And if you think we vote for someone just because of their speeches or looks, well your wrong. Just because your Independent does not mean your unaware of the issues, it means that you have views similar to both parties and did not want to go to one or the other. And Republicans and Democrats are not just teams, but on todays world, they sure act like it.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I approve of most of the Tea Party Platform....

Just don't ask 'em too-many questions. They're not real-clear on...ANY...details.

*

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[dogtowner]

Thats the people not the Independents. And if you think we vote for someone just because of their speeches or looks, well your wrong. Just because your Independent does not mean your unaware of the issues, it means that you have views similar to both parties and did not want to go to one or the other. And Republicans and Democrats are not just teams, but on todays world, they sure act like it.

there are independants and the musy middle of which they are a part.

those who profess independant may well know the races well but they are a minority.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Independents aren't going anywhere and are here to stay. They are the driving force behind the political machine here in American and they decide who goes where. Democrats and Republicans may not like them but they can't do anything without them. That is a fact.

Well stated...and for those lessor thinking all anointed ones around here that love to label and shove everyone into a defined 'BOX' of their choosing...let me remind them that it would be RARE-RARE indeed to find any one politician that you agreed with each and every line item/ISSUE that they stood for while running for any office

But carry on and point those self anointed fingers at the rest of us that don't prescribe to your ideologies and don't want to lock step with one party or the other...we feel free to vote for whom we wish and we won't/don't swallow the PARTY AFFILIATION MANTRA - hook line and sinker!

 

[Mr. Harris]

there are independants and the musy middle of which they are a part.

those who profess independant may well know the races well but they are a minority.

Why is everyone evening starting arguments about Independents? Enough of this, why are people so wrapped up in what party you are or if you do not have a party. An Idependent is just someone who does not want to get in one party or another, it does not mean they cannot decide what they want or that they don't know the issues. Can you people remember that Republicans or Democrats, thats just group, in the end we are all Americans. All I am trying to say with this thread is that we should vote for the person who will help us, not the party or the looks.

 

[dogtowner]

Why is everyone evening starting arguments about Independents? Enough of this, why are people so wrapped up in what party you are or if you do not have a party. An Idependent is just someone who does not want to get in one party or another, it does not mean they cannot decide what they want or that they don't know the issues. Can you people remember that Republicans or Democrats, thats just group, in the end we are all Americans. All I am trying to say with this thread is that we should vote for the person who will help us, not the party or the looks.

trouble is you appear to be garden variety deocrat so the independant mantra is a bit contrived IMO.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Interesting editorial and really explains the pendulum swing of emotions that our great country seems to be afflicted with!
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http://mail.live.com/
Down With the People
Blame the childish, ignorant American public--not politicians--for our political and economic crisis.
By Jacob Weisberg
Updated Saturday, Feb. 6, 2010, at 7:07 AM ET
In trying to explain why our political paralysis seems to have gotten so much worse over the past year, analysts have rounded up a plausible collection of reasons including: President Obama's tactical missteps, the obstinacy of congressional Republicans, rising partisanship in Washington, the blustering idiocracy of the cable-news stations, and the Senate filibuster, which has devolved into a super-majority threshold for any important legislation. These are all large factors, to be sure, but that list neglects what may be the biggest culprit in our current predicament: the childishness, ignorance, and growing incoherence of the public at large.
Anybody who says you can't have it both ways clearly hasn't been spending much time reading opinion polls lately. One year ago, 59 percent of the American public liked the stimulus plan, according to Gallup. A few months later, with the economy still deeply mired in recession, a majority of the same size said Obama was spending too much money on it. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind, of course, but opinion polls over the last year reflect something altogether more troubling: a country that simultaneously demands and rejects action on unemployment, deficits, health care, climate change, and a whole host of other major problems. Sixty percent of Americans want stricter regulations of financial institutions. But nearly the same proportion says we're suffering from too much regulation on business. That kind of illogic--or, if you prefer, susceptibility to rhetorical manipulation--is what locks the status quo in place.
To continue reading, click here.

 

[GenSeneca]

Blame the childish, ignorant American public--not politicians--for our political and economic crisis.

That title says everything you need to know about the left's view of America:

Government is good, Big Government is better, Unlimited Government is best and no matter it's size, government is totally blameless* for any problems the country faces.

Place any and all blame on the American public because they are just too stupid to realize that government can fix every problem if only voters would give it unlimited power and STFU.

*Only true when Democrats are in power.

 

[Revere]

Americans are rejecting Obama and his government that wants to tell everyone what to do.

 

[top gun]

accurate numbers...

The Incredible Shrinking GOP: Only 20 Percent Self-Identify As Republican
Okay, this is striking. Earlier this week a Washington Post poll made a big splash because it found that only 21 percent self-identify as Republicans. The abysmally low number got pundits and reporters talking about whether the GOP is shrinking to the point of irrelevance.

Now we have another poll that finds that the number of self-identified Republicans has dropped even lower: 20 percent.

My handy Plum Line calculator informs me that this means exactly one-fifth of adults identify themselves as Republican. Here are the key numbers, buried in the internals of the new NBC/WSJ poll (click to enlarge):

Thirteen percent identify themselves as a “strong Republican”; seven percent as a “not very strong Republican.” Total: Twenty percent.

So two polls this week have now found this, suggesting it’s probably not an outlier. Does anyone know if any other poll has found the number of self-identified GOPers hitting 20 percent?

Relatedly, I’m a bit surprised that these comments from Senator John Cornyn yesterday aren’t getting more attention. He vowed that the the GOP would one day “regain its status as a national party,” which is an admission from the head of the NRSC that it is no longer any such thing.

Update: DNC spokesperson Hari Sevugan emails over the following response:

When you’re devoid of new ideas, devoid of new leadership, and your only answer to the nation’s pressing problem is to say “NO,” it’s not surprising that moderate, independent voices can no longer identify with you. And all that remains are the fringe elements of a once grand old party that are far outside the American mainstream.

 

[Capitalist Pig]

Can you people remember that Republicans or Democrats, thats just group, in the end we are all Americans. All I am trying to say with this thread is that we should vote for the person who will help us, not the party or the looks.

This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. You vote based on the individual, not their position. All ideas are not equal. Bad ideas are bad ideas even if smart people have them. The idea that we need to be inclusive of everybody's opinion is foolish. We need to put in place policies that work, and stop trying to tweak the ones that don't work until they do. You have to educate yourself about what works and what doesn't, and then vote for the guy who isn't feeding you a line of bull**** because he knows thats what you want to hear. Platitudes wont balance our budget. Only spending cuts can do that. Anybody who is telling you that we can solve all our problems by just moving the money around and spending it on a few slightly different things is full of it. They are either lying to them are incompetent themselves. My biggest problem with most independents is the way they fall all over themselves to vote for the guy with the best slogans. "We don't have red states and blue states, we have the United States". *pukes*

 

[Capitalist Pig]

The Incredible Shrinking GOP: Only 20 Percent Self-Identify As Republican
Okay, this is striking. Earlier this week a Washington Post poll made a big splash because it found that only 21 percent self-identify as Republicans. The abysmally low number got pundits and reporters talking about whether the GOP is shrinking to the point of irrelevance.

Now we have another poll that finds that the number of self-identified Republicans has dropped even lower: 20 percent.

My handy Plum Line calculator informs me that this means exactly one-fifth of adults identify themselves as Republican. Here are the key numbers, buried in the internals of the new NBC/WSJ poll (click to enlarge):

Thirteen percent identify themselves as a “strong Republican”; seven percent as a “not very strong Republican.” Total: Twenty percent.

So two polls this week have now found this, suggesting it’s probably not an outlier. Does anyone know if any other poll has found the number of self-identified GOPers hitting 20 percent?

Relatedly, I’m a bit surprised that these comments from Senator John Cornyn yesterday aren’t getting more attention. He vowed that the the GOP would one day “regain its status as a national party,” which is an admission from the head of the NRSC that it is no longer any such thing.

Update: DNC spokesperson Hari Sevugan emails over the following response:

When you’re devoid of new ideas, devoid of new leadership, and your only answer to the nation’s pressing problem is to say “NO,” it’s not surprising that moderate, independent voices can no longer identify with you. And all that remains are the fringe elements of a once grand old party that are far outside the American mainstream.

It is true, the GOP is unpopular. You are deluding yourself however if you think that this is a result of America leaning farther left. The truth is that many conservatives are fed up with the GOP's broken promises. There is plenty of polling data out there showing that about twice as many people identify as "conservative" as do "liberal". We just need a party that reflects that, and stops trying to compromise principles to solidify their power. Hopefully one of these days they will figure out that their move to the middle to hold onto power is what loses it for them.

 

[PLC1]

*Only true when Democrats are in power.

Surely you jest! Only when Democrats are in power? After the last Republican administration and its "Patriot Act"?

I like your picture, though.

 

[Mr. Harris]

You vote based on the individual, not their position.

What? You must not understand things, I vote based on ideals and their thinking. I vote for who is going to help this country.

 

[Capitalist Pig]

What? You must not understand things, I vote based on ideals and their thinking. I vote for who is going to help this country.

I heard you and understood you Mr Harris. List for me all the presidents you have voted for as an independent. I will then show you how you are either a conservative, a liberal, or uneducated about the policy positions of the men and or women who run for high office.