Trump's Mar-a-Lago trips cost taxpayers about $10M so far

[Old_Trapper70]

... glibness aside, I think i'd have used any legit reason I could think of to get out of going to that clusterf**k as well, so hey, fair play to the man

If you are going to support going to war then you should have the guts to go yourself. As I was taught, and I know it is old fashioned, "don't ask someone else to do something you are not willing to do?.

BTW, when it began no one knew what a cluster"f**k" it would be.

 

[The Scotsman]

No end of.guys.who did.

Have you read a book called "A Rumour of War" by a guy called Philip J. Caputo? I read it years ago.... I can understand why people tried to get out of going.

 

[The Scotsman]

If you are going to support going to war then you should have the guts to go yourself

well... there's always that but think before you leap huh. The draft is different from voluteering.

 

[The Scotsman]

Next question is, why were so many of your chicken hawk cowards not there? Limbaugh, Cheney, Rove, Kristol, Bush, Rumsfield, Romney, Gingrich, Bolton, and the list goes on, and on, and on.

Who cares? I don't see what benefit is gained trailing around in some sodden rice paddy being shot at by chaps with strange names

 

[dogtowner]

Have you read a book called "A Rumour of War" by a guy called Philip J. Caputo? I read it years ago.... I can understand why people tried to get out of going.

Lived through it. Oldest brother didn't have the grades for college so he enlisted that way he had a say in his assignments. Next oldest had a favorable number and great grades so he didn't have to worry about it. They shut it down as I was fretting about my number.
It all hung heavy in the air.

 

[The Scotsman]

They shut it down as I was fretting about my number.

You're a lucky lad! I Bet your folks were glad

 

[dogtowner]

You're a lucky lad! I Bet your folks were glad

Yes, they were. Hard enough sending my oldest brother off. We were all very proud of him, dad was a captain in the army so he had great advice on what to sign up for.
Timing is every thing right ?

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Who cares? I don't see what benefit is gained trailing around in some sodden rice paddy being shot at by chaps with strange names

Point is that when the war began no one knew of those situations. Then too, it was politics that created much of the problem. If we had allowed the troops to fight as they were trained to do then matters would have been different.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

well... there's always that but think before you leap huh. The draft is different from voluteering.

The draft was created by those who were too cowardly to go.

 

[The Scotsman]

Wi

If we had allowed the troops to fight as they were trained to do then matters would have been different.

I rather doubt it mate, without getting into a Vietnam war debate I would contend that they weren't trained. The military doctrine at the time was WarPac orientated not counter-insurgency. The US military was not prepared, equipped or led by people who grasped the ability to counter Giap's tactics.

 

[The Scotsman]

The draft was created by those who were too cowardly to go.

Again I don't agree with you Trap, but would gladly debate this on a separate thread?

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Again I don't agree with you Trap, but would gladly debate this on a separate thread?

Nothing to debate. The history of the draft is quite clear. Prior to 1862 the government used conscription into the Militia to fill its military needs. Then came the Civil War, and the government could not meet its obligations relying on volunteers, and paid subscriptions by those who would not serve themselves. Thus the draft which still allowed for the ones who were too cowardly to serve to buy their way out.

Like I said, nothing to debate.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Wi

I rather doubt it mate, without getting into a Vietnam war debate I would contend that they weren't trained. The military doctrine at the time was WarPac orientated not counter-insurgency. The US military was not prepared, equipped or led by people who grasped the ability to counter Giap's tactics.

When you have rules that prevent the troops to fire at the enemy until they are fired upon, or when you take hill, and then are told to retreat from that hill thus giving it back to the enemy ("Hamburger Hill"), or a dozen different rules handicapping the soldier, it matters not who's tactics you are encountering. Like the war in Iraq, the war in Vietnam was not fought to be won. It was fought to profit the military industrial complex.

 

[Openmind]

After reading all these posts, it seems clear to me that we may disagree on the reason why we haven't been winning wars (my version is: there hasn't been a war worth winning, as they have all, since WWII at least, been "made up" wars), but I dare to believe that we might agree on one point, and that is it is not the lack of "defence armement" that has kept us from winning those wars.

We all know that we already spend more on defence than the next 7 or 8 major countries (including China and Russia) put together.

.S. Defense Spending Compared to Other Countries
www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison

So. . .WHY do we need to cut funds to important programs that facilitate and better the life of AMERICANS, to invest another $54 billions in more "equipment?"

Anyone has an answer? Or is my intuition fairly accurate (this would be a huge give away to the defence industry. . .which would then boost the wallet of its main investors!)

 

[dogtowner]

When you have rules that prevent the troops to fire at the enemy until they are fired upon, or when you take hill, and then are told to retreat from that hill thus giving it back to the enemy ("Hamburger Hill"), or a dozen different rules handicapping the soldier, it matters not who's tactics you are encountering. Like the war in Iraq, the war in Vietnam was not fought to be won. It was fought to profit the military industrial complex.

Always a problem when civilians try to micromanage the military.