Trump withdrawal from the Paris agreement.

[dogtowner]

Now everybody is producing graphs and opinion to prove their point. There is little consensus in these arguments. It is easy to produce graphs over a limited period to prove that there was a pause in global warming but none of these graphs cover 200 years. Opinions can be produce to say that some places are getting colder but there is no scientific evidence that this is a world wide trend. Explanation that this a natural change and that it will change in the future is just opinions You can not forecast how NATURE WILL REACT IN THE FUTURE.
EVEN OPINIONS ABOUT THE EFFECT Co2 are DIVIDED . I have tried to read SCIENTIFIC STATEMENTS ABOUT CO2 BUT find them CONFUSION. EXAMPLE THE FIRST ONE I SAW WAS Richard Jordy in New Phytologist. He seems to say that sometimes CO2 comes with global warming , sometimes it does not.
Statements that new coal mine are being open in various parts of the world prove nothing. New mines are replacing old mines because they are less polluting. Clean coal in being experiment with . It might work but it would be better than keeping dirty old mines open.
In theUSA I understand most of the mines in the rust belt states have been closed. The companies that ran them have gone bankrupt. To open them would cost a fortune and being old mines they will be dirty.

There is verifiable data covering hundreds if thousands of years showing a routine, predictable rise and fall in Temps. There is verified and un doctored data over the last 20 years demonstrating virtually unchanged global mean temp.
Not opinion aussie, science.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

To open them would cost a fortune and being old mines they will be dirty.

Mining practices, and technology, are making the mines cleaner, however, coal itself cannot be made cleaner, just the after effects of burning it. Scrubbers, and the like, are removing much of the pollution from CO2'.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/clean-coal.htm

 

[Old_Trapper70]

There is verifiable data covering hundreds if thousands of years showing a routine, predictable rise and fall in Temps. There is verified and un doctored data over the last 20 years demonstrating virtually unchanged global mean temp.
Not opinion aussie, science.

Like that of Exxon? How about this science:

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warmin...Q#.VH4LFU0tCHs?s_src=promo&s_subsrc=googleads

Or this:

https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Is there any scientific evidence that does not agree with your own biased opinion that you would accept?

 

[The Scotsman]

You said: "GKM Mannheim... commissioned May 2015" One "block" is not the entire plant,

... you sneaky thing you.......silly me! So the Germans are not in fact building new coal fired generators then? Jeeeez...why didn't you just say that from the start!! You got me lock stock and barrel I guess the you and Bundesverband der Energie- und Wasserwirtschaft e.V. are just having a good ol' laugh at my expense, them listing new power plants that aren't in fact being planned or in construction, well you naughty little chaps...naughty boys all of you.... you led me right into it with you razor sharp cunningness.... you little minx you...

And here was me thinking of posting this.... well its obviously totally fake so I wouldn't bother with it now.


See the big grey things on the left? Since they don't exist I guess those are the photoshopped fake pictures of new... well something or another.....see the brown things on the right? I guess those must be real? Who knows they could be photoshopped as well but they appear to be pretty good fake images of old things.....

Look joking aside there's a bigger picture here and I though you bringing in the likes of Bill Gates was spot on. There is a debate to be had here and in all honesty whether Germany, France, or who the fuck cares is building new coal plants or fracking or PVe or Toyota Prius are good, bad or whatever - linking CO2 and temperature in COP21 was not the answer. Gates knows that... the politicians know that... and any right thinking person knows that so what the fuck was the point of it!! Looking after the little planet we live on is the issue and I think COP21 may have been a retrograde action against actually doing something worthwhile. Cop21 is now being banded about as the yardstick used to measure future qualitative public expectations about climate and environment but it won't... it won't to look after this planet and all living things that inhabit it we need to do something more fundemental and radical. The shit that is being done to this world of ours is staggering but having politicians in the mix.... advised by charlatans eager to snaffle at the taxpayers trough.... no its bullshit! ... and sorry if I was rude above...

 

[The Scotsman]

He seems to say that sometimes CO2 comes with global warming , sometimes it does not.

Thats the whole point... nobody really knows so how can you have "scientists" talking in absolute terms to politicians who take those absolutes and turn them into policy.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

... you sneaky thing you.......silly me! So the Germans are not in fact building new coal fired generators then? Jeeeez...why didn't you just say that from the start!! You got me lock stock and barrel I guess the you and Bundesverband der Energie- und Wasserwirtschaft e.V. are just having a good ol' laugh at my expense, them listing new power plants that aren't in fact being planned or in construction, well you naughty little chaps...naughty boys all of you.... you led me right into it with you razor sharp cunningness.... you little minx you...

And here was me thinking of posting this.... well its obviously totally fake so I wouldn't bother with it now.

You really make it hard for me to avoid doing as Walter wants me to, and not insult fools. Do you even know what a "block" is in a power plant? It is not a whole brand new power plant, it is a section of an existing power plant. Of course, people with low IQ's have a hard time understanding what is going on just like you cannot grasp the concept that coal fired generators are providing energy until the time when renewable energy can provide enough for the needs of the country. That is happening in the US, China, France, and elsewhere. And as solar panels improve, as wind generators improve, and as the cost gets cheaper, you will see even less use of coal.

http://energypost.eu/german-conundrum-renewables-break-records-coal-refuses-go-away/

"Last year was undoubtedly historic for the German power sector – for the first time in Germany´s modern history renewables accounted for a third of the country´s electricity consumption and secured their position as the number one power source defeating lignite (but not lignite and coal together). If nothing untoward happens and the Germans stick to their plans, bituminous coal and lignite will never be restored to their former glory, writes Jakub Kucera, economic analyst at RSJ, a Prague-based investment company. The year 2015 showed, however, that getting rid of coal completely will be unexpectedly hard.

Renewable energy sources, taken together, covered 32.5% of German electricity consumption in 2015, while lignite provided only 26%. Since 1990 the electricity output from renewables has risen tenfold to last year´s level of 194 TWh. The year-on-year increase was also the highest on record – a staggering 31.6 TWh which is an increase of 20 TWh. At this pace, the 2025 goal for the share of renewables in consumption would be reached in 2017-2018."

Now, here is something else people like you with your limited research into the issue will ignore:

https://carboncounter.wordpress.com...ear-phaseout-is-leading-to-more-coal-burning/

"We are also now seeing increasing numbers of people suddenly noticing an uptick in coal power, and deciding it has little to do with Germany’s decision to move away from nuclear energy. These arguments however require both an alternative arithmetic, and an alternative history. Here is why.

In the aftermath of Fukushima, Germany prematurely shut 8 nuclear power plants. Respect for arithmetic and the intelligence of my readers dictates that I do not explain why this should lead to an increase in carbon dioxide emissions. However, the relationship between Germany’s nuclear phase out and the construction of new coal power plants deserves an explanation.

Between 2011 and 2015 Germany will open 10.7 GW of new coal fired power stations. This is more new coal coal capacity than was constructed in the entire two decades after the fall of the Berlin Wall. The expected annual electricity production of these power stations will far exceed that of existing solar panels and will be approximately the same as that of Germany’s existing solar panels and wind turbines combined. Solar panels and wind turbines however have expected life spans of no more than 25 years. Coal power plants typically last 50 years or longer. At best you could call the recent developments in Germany’s electricity sector contradictory."

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Look joking aside there's a bigger picture here and I though you bringing in the likes of Bill Gates was spot on. There is a debate to be had here and in all honesty whether Germany, France, or who the fuck cares is building new coal plants or fracking or PVe or Toyota Prius are good, bad or whatever - linking CO2 and temperature in COP21 was not the answer. Gates knows that... the politicians know that... and any right thinking person knows that so what the fuck was the point of it!! Looking after the little planet we live on is the issue and I think COP21 may have been a retrograde action against actually doing something worthwhile. Cop21 is now being banded about as the yardstick used to measure future qualitative public expectations about climate and environment but it won't... it won't to look after this planet and all living things that inhabit it we need to do something more fundemental and radical. The shit that is being done to this world of ours is staggering but having politicians in the mix.... advised by charlatans eager to snaffle at the taxpayers trough.... no its bullshit! ... and sorry if I was rude above...

Is there anyone in the scientific world that has stated CO2 is the ONLY reason for climate change?

And if industry will not take responsible actions then why would you expect the politicians to be silent?

 

[The Scotsman]

Its' so funny when you go ballistic......calm down.... breath...... shreeeeeeem.....don't get too hysterical its only the internet.

You really make it hard for me to avoid doing as Walter wants me to, and not insult fools. Do you even know what a "block" is in a power plant?

.... Mods on your tail are they....you been a naughty boy have you....... So whats a "Block" then huh? let me think......small IQ......takes a bit of time for old synapses to work....... ermmm....yeah got it....... its a bit..... and this "Block" generates strom 911 mega somethings or another.... with kolhe... that's coal in Deutsche..... Zwecklos, weiterzugehen aber "block" ist kurzform fur blockheizkraftwerk und Ich glaube in englische das heist = cogeneration plant.

It is not a whole brand new power plant it is a section of an existing power plant

... ahhhh I get it now!! Its like if I have a fleet of say 3 cars and I buy a new car then its not actually a new car....... its just an extension to my existing fleet of motor vehicles! Yup I'm there now. So all these windmills and solar thingymajigs the Germans are (not) building are really only 1 with lots of extensions to them.... so in fact Germany only has 1 windmill and 1 Solar thing.... plus extensions!!

As the the rest of the post well... excellent stuff....I think we're almost there?
We've established that renewables aren't up to it at the moment.
Coal/gas is the future until its not the future.
Germany has only one of everything with some extensions.
My IQ is suspect... we knew that anyway.. you're always saying it... you know it hurts me when you say that. It lowers my self esteem and I feel all vunerable... it think I will report you to the Mods!
Trapper has anger mangement issues.
We've about milked Mannheim for all its worth... and you've learnt some German!
We like Bill Gates
Walter can correct my German... I was never very good at the adjective endings, genders and cases all this der die das die.
You think Cop21 wasn't a waste of time... is that right?
I like posting pictures of German "Blocks"
Und jetz ich denke ich wird aus die fenster hinauf springen... also tschüss mien lieber, nun es macht mich nur gelangweilt

 

[The Scotsman]

oops sorry missed this one stupid and blind...

Is there anyone in the scientific world that has stated CO2 is the ONLY reason for climate change?

yeah the folk that wrote up Cop21

 

[Old_Trapper70]

oops sorry missed this one stupid and blind...

yeah the folk that wrote up Cop21

More lack of knowledge. Even they do not say CO2 is the ONLY (do you know what 'only' means?) pollutant to be addressed.

Now, read thew agreement, and see how many times "greenhouse emissions" are mentioned:

https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/paris-climate-agreement-IB.pdf

Now, read this and see what "greenhouse emissions" are:

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/greenhouse-gas

BTW, COP21 is the name of the conference, not something written up. Conference of the Parties with this being the 21st. time they have met.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Its' so funny when you go ballistic......calm down.... breath...... shreeeeeeem.....don't get too hysterical its only the internet.

LOL, it is not unusual for the low IQ types to blame their actions on others. It is called "projection", or "transference".

"or who the fuck cares is building new coal plants or fracking or PVe or Toyota Prius are good, bad or whatever"

.... Mods on your tail are they....you been a naughty boy have you....... So whats a "Block" then huh? let me think......small IQ......takes a bit of time for old synapses to work....... ermmm....yeah got it....... its a bit..... and this "Block" generates strom 911 mega somethings or another.... with kolhe... that's coal in Deutsche..... Zwecklos, weiterzugehen aber "block" ist kurzform fur blockheizkraftwerk und Ich glaube in englische das heist = cogeneration plant.

... ahhhh I get it now!! Its like if I have a fleet of say 3 cars and I buy a new car then its not actually a new car....... its just an extension to my existing fleet of motor vehicles! Yup I'm there now. So all these windmills and solar thingymajigs the Germans are (not) building are really only 1 with lots of extensions to them.... so in fact Germany only has 1 windmill and 1 Solar thing.... plus extensions!!

Key word is "co-generation". The next word would be "expansion" which you did not use.

On the other hand, a solar system, or a wind generator, is an individual unit since each is separate from the other, not co-existing.

As to the rest of your childishness.......

 

[The Scotsman]

Key word is "co-generation". The next word would be "expansion" which you did not use.

... gosh....really good to know cheers mate..

As to the rest of your childishness.......

Ah got to you did it.... I know it can't be easy for you high functioning mensa types being slegded by us low IQ morons....never mind soldier on mate....

 

[Old_Trapper70]

... gosh....really good to know cheers mate..

Ah got to you did it.... I know it can't be easy for you high functioning mensa types being slegded by us low IQ morons....never mind soldier on mate....

Your ego is obviously having a tantrum

 

[Aus22]

There is verifiable data covering hundreds if thousands of years showing a routine, predictable rise and fall in Temps. There is verified and un doctored data over the last 20 years demonstrating virtually unchanged global mean temp.
Not opinion aussie, science.

That there has been a rise and fall in temp over hundreds or thousands of years might be a fact. But it is a long time from the last ice age.
That in some places temp have not changed in the past 20 years but be true. But there are far more studies showing temp rises over this period. THis is supported by the majority of scientists. That is science. Give me the name of scientists that give you these results. I can give the names of scientists that say certain places are warming That is science the rest is just opinion.

 

[Aus22]

Sources for my last post include NASA Land and Ocean temperature Graph, IPCS, National Research Counci, Skeptical Science and DA Sante