Transformation

[Gipper]

BO often speaks of TRANSFORMING America. Of course, this means turning us into a socialist sh*thole with a progressive elite in charge and completing ignoring the Constitution.

He also likes to consider himself similar to Lincoln, which is an absurdity because Lincoln would never do what BO is doing. Here is a good article on this subject.

Lincoln sought the preservation of America, not its transformation. Rather than envisioning a new future, he appealed to the old moral, political, and social truths of liberty and equality. These were true not by dint of his personality, but because they are universal and reasonable. Lincoln was the servant of enduring constitutional principles so that he could end slavery and preserve the Union.

America today needs not “transformational leadership,” but constitutional statesmanship.

Compared to the idea of “transformational leadership,” the idea of constitutional statesmanship now seems out of place, like shouting “Give me liberty or give me death!” in a movie theater. Yet given the choice of further attempts at the unconstitutional transformation of the country, or seeking to be a statesman much better attuned to the Constitution, the president in his second year in office might better heed the example of his hero Lincoln.

For Lincoln, the Constitution was inviolable. He knew that the presidential oath he took to “preserve, protect and defend” the Constitution defined his responsibility. More than any other promise a president makes it matters most.
http://biggovernment.com/dbobb/2010...l-leadership-or-constitutional-statesmanship/

 

[GenSeneca]

For Lincoln, the Constitution was inviolable.

Inviolable:
1. prohibiting violation; secure from destruction, violence, infringement, or desecration: an inviolable sanctuary; an inviolable promise.
2. incapable of being violated; incorruptible; unassailable: inviolable secrecy.

I expect Progressives to whitewash history and pave over unpleasant truths, not Conservatives. Pretending that Lincoln didn't violate the rights and liberties of the American citizens in every state, to pretend he didn't violate the Constitution in the prosecution of the Civil War, does a tragic disservice to history and the truth.

The very last thing we want is for Obama, or any president, to emulate Lincoln as far as his complete disregard for the Constitution.

 

[Gipper]

Once again you misrepresent my statements and insult my conservative creditials.

I don't agree with everything in the article and never said I did. And yes Honest Abe did violate the Constitution, but we were in a Civil War.

I did say BO is violating it much more the Abe ever would, which we can certainly argue about.

No matter what you think of Lincoln, he did end slavery. Yes it was at great cost and lead to decades of terrible mistreatment by white southerns (nearly all of whom were Dems) of blacks which resulted in a total control of the former Confederate states by the Dem Party for over a century. But, how can a free nation exist part free and part slave? Our Founders labored over this issue and could not resolve it. Lincoln did.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

of course Lincoln only violated the constitution by destroying the free pree, free speach, and hebius (sp) corpus laws and such...

Obama wanted to expand government health care to help the rest of the nation who has no health care...though government is already helping and in health care...but all of the sudden he is a evil socialist.

face it, you just like to yell socialist because its easier then looking at facts. And don't forget to throw in a few Hitlers while you can

 

[dogtowner]

Once again you misrepresent my statements and insult my conservative creditials.

I don't agree with everything in the article and never said I did. And yes Honest Abe did violate the Constitution, but we were in a Civil War.

I did say BO is violating it much more the Abe ever would, which we can certainly argue about.

No matter what you think of Lincoln, he did end slavery. Yes it was at great cost and lead to decades of terrible mistreatment by white southerns (nearly all of whom were Dems) of blacks which resulted in a total control of the former Confederate states by the Dem Party for over a century. But, how can a free nation exist part free and part slave? Our Founders labored over this issue and could not resolve it. Lincoln did.

he violated it well before the war and in a very real sense insured that war occurred by his actions. I would offer that Lincoln's actions were every bit as bad as what Obama seeks if not worse. Obama is actually quite correct in his self comparison but not in the ways he thinks.

 

[GenSeneca]

Once again you misrepresent my statements and insult my conservative creditials.

I don't agree with everything in the article and never said I did.

I apologize for not being more specific in my statement. I was not chiding you as the Conservative misrepresenting historical facts but biggoverment.com. They are the ones who are trying to whitewash history by pretending Lincoln didn't abuse the constitution and for that, they should be held to account.

I did say BO is violating it much more the Abe ever would,

As pocket correctly points out (yes, I am saying pocket is correct on this) Lincoln eliminated the free press, freedom of speech, suspended Habeas Corpus, jailed political enemies and even jailed a supreme court justice for speaking publically against his policies.

Obama has come nowhere close to this kind of behavior.

 

[GenSeneca]

but all of the sudden he is a evil socialist.

What do you think Obama meant when he said that he wanted to "fundamentally transform" the country?

 

[dogtowner]

I apologize for not being more specific in my statement. I was not chiding you as the Conservative misrepresenting historical facts but biggoverment.com. They are the ones who are trying to whitewash history by pretending Lincoln didn't abuse the constitution and for that, they should be held to account.


As pocket correctly points out (yes, I am saying pocket is correct on this) Lincoln eliminated the free press, freedom of speech, suspended Habeas Corpus, jailed political enemies and even jailed a supreme court justice for speaking publically against his policies.

Obama has come nowhere close to this kind of behavior.

and a congressman who was eventually deported.

send the Army to the Maryland legislature to monitor ther deliberations and arre4st and carry off to Army prisons anyone seen as a threat. going so far as to color code ballots to more easily identify the problems.

 

[PLC1]

So, now we're down to arguing not over who supported the Constitution, but over who violated it the least.

Is there an administration that did not violate the Constitution? Isn't it our job as citizens to call them on it when they do?

 

[dogtowner]

So, now we're down to arguing not over who supported the Constitution, but over who violated it the least.

Is there an administration that did not violate the Constitution? Isn't it our job as citizens to call them on it when they do?

I suspect there were a few. Certainly none recently.

Well, a bunch of citizens DID try calling them on it and got slaughtered for their trouble.

 

[PLC1]

I suspect there were a few. Certainly none recently.

Well, a bunch of citizens DID try calling them on it and got slaughtered for their trouble.

?? is that a reference to the civil war?

 

[dogtowner]

?? is that a reference to the civil war?

Can't get anything past you can I ?

 

[Gipper]

I apologize for not being more specific in my statement. I was not chiding you as the Conservative misrepresenting historical facts but biggoverment.com. They are the ones who are trying to whitewash history by pretending Lincoln didn't abuse the constitution and for that, they should be held to account.


As pocket correctly points out (yes, I am saying pocket is correct on this) Lincoln eliminated the free press, freedom of speech, suspended Habeas Corpus, jailed political enemies and even jailed a supreme court justice for speaking publically against his policies.

Obama has come nowhere close to this kind of behavior.

Okay cool.

Now as far as BO goes, we are very early into his reign of terror. So, we can't know what unconstitutional things he has planned though just about everything he has done or tried to do to date, is unconstitutional. He does not face the kinds of difficulties Lincoln did no matter his protestations to the contrary. It is clear that BO intends to TRANSFORM our nation into a socialist sh*thole run by elites like him. Lincoln, while doing many unconstitutional things, did not want to transform the nation into something different. I think that was the authors point and it is a big one.

 

[dogtowner]

Okay cool.

Now as far as BO goes, we are very early into his reign of terror. So, we can't know what unconstitutional things he has planned though just about everything he has done or tried to do to date, is unconstitutional. He does not face the kinds of difficulties Lincoln did no matter his protestations to the contrary. It is clear that BO intends to TRANSFORM our nation into a socialist sh*thole run by elites like him. Lincoln, while doing many unconstitutional things, did not want to transform the nation into something different. I think that was the authors point and it is a big one.

actually he did.

his party the Whigs (changed to Republican when the name was driven into the ground not unlike Democrat today), were all about "investment" in the infrastructure that would transform the nation. at that time it was rail and canals. they looked to steer the projects to poitical cronies. great promises were made and never delivered upon but friends got rich and Lincoln got powerful.

sound familiar ?

 

[always]

BO often speaks of TRANSFORMING America. Of course, this means turning us into a socialist sh*thole with a progressive elite in charge and completing ignoring the Constitution.

He also likes to consider himself similar to Lincoln, which is an absurdity because Lincoln would never do what BO is doing. Here is a good article on this subject.

Owebama is NO Lincoln , if fact he is NO Ford either!
Owebama seems to be lost in the huge space of our Presidency. He seems inept to the challenges and now calls on Republicans to sit down with him and share his failures. This , after spending all of his first year treating the G.O.P. worse than Terrorists and deciding to "Go it Alone" and force his unconstitutional deeds down the throats of the American People. Having lost his politicial ASSETS in that attempt, he now seeks for a brief moment to be honorable. Listen folks , after a poisonous snake sheds its skin , it is still a poisonous snake, BEWARE!!