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The Sleaziness Of Trump

Discussion in 'Elections & Political Parties' started by Old_Trapper70, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    While it is possible to live without sin, it's hard. If you can accept Christ as your lord and savior (also hard as it requires humility, true humility) you will be saved.
     
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  2. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    YES SIR..
     
  3. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    There are some like the pharicess who enjoy pointing out those like the tax collecter and mocking them. But this is where that judge not lest you be judged comes in. God alone gets to do that.
     
  4. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of fine words without meaning. The scripture teaches us that we are to learn the mind of God "precept by precept, line upon line", thus when you ignore scripture that does not comply with your ideology you form a false teaching.

    So, we have in Matthew 5: 16 yet another teaching of Christ "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." So we see that there is a need for good works which led the Apostle to write in James 2: 18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.", 20 "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?", then in verse 24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.".

    So yes, it is faith that saves, yet it is the same faith that is demonstrated by your works, and if you have no works then that faith is useless. I could go on with this, and write an entire tome, however, that is not the purpose of this forum. I will leave you with this thought from 1John 2:15: "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him"
     
  5. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Where in scripture does it say that?

    1Corinthians 6: 3 "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"

    And where does it say this: "While it is possible to live without sin, it's hard."

    Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

    Then too, you use part of a scripture while ignoring the rest of the teaching:

    Matthew 7: 1,2 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."
     
  6. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Trapper my friend, as you can tell I'm not a legalist anymore. I'm a recovering Legalist. I believe when people screw up they need Grace, but we keep giving them the law. Jesus died because we are all sinners, and he died once and for all.
     
  7. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    We are getting way off message here, i'm sorry for that

    Trapper....I’m not saying you can’t believe things are wrong.

    Of course you can. Everybody makes decisions about right and wrong every single day. You can totally believe something is immoral, unethical or even evil to your heart’s content. The Christian faith demands it. What I’m saying I have a problem with is that we’ve convinced ourselves that attacking people with their sin is the way Christians witness to people.

    The world is drowning and we’re yelling at them from the safety of the shore about how they should have taken swimming lessons. Why is it that we feel as though that finding a sin in a lost person’s life that is most obvious to us and then threatening them with eternal fiery damnation if they don’t admit they’re wrong about it is how we reach them with the love of Christ? Is sin the gospel? Is the fact of them accepting that sin as sinful salvation itself? Or is salvation only in Christ and him crucified for the ungodly?

    I get where you’re coming from. I do. I mean, of course we have to see that we are sinful and needy before we are even capable of wanting the gospel enough to accept it. I understand that. And, once again, am not poo-pooing the seriousness of sin. It is what separates us from God. I am simply wondering out loud why we feel compelled to do the work of the Spirit in convicting the heart of total strangers rather than giving them the Good News that Jesus saves the worst of sinners.

    Is it because we worship morality rather than God? Do we not clearly see that salvation is a free gift, given by God, and not earned or worked toward in any way? Do we actually believe that by convincing someone that they are an awful person, we will somehow ignite in them a passion for their need of Christ?

    We can be anti-sin. We can have solid beliefs about issues and even express those beliefs as long as we are known for what the bible says a Christian should be known for, love, and not our stance on those sins.

    No, love doesn’t have to pretend sin doesn’t exist. But it reaches through the muck and mire to the heart of the personand cares for them as someone made in the image of God. It whispers Christ love for them and his death on their behalf, while they are still sinners. In his presence are forgiveness, love and truly amazing grace that no one can find any pride in. Only awe and thankfulness. Only peace with God for all sinners. That’s the message. Unflinching ultimate love dooms sin's schemes to failure.
     
  8. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    OK, so now we change the topic again. Can they have grace without repentance? Trump, and others like him, reject the concept of repentance. However, while one can say they are not a "legalist" Paul wrote that not being under the law did not mean we could sin so that Grace could abide. Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" Then there is Christ saying in Matthew 5: 18 " For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." So, the law is still there, it has not been eliminated, and we are bound to obey it. For without the law there would be no sin Romans 7: 7, 8 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead."
     
  9. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Before you can teach a person of the love of God you first have to teach him what sin is, and that he is a sinner. Without the knowledge of sin, and his disobedience, the act of Christs forgiveness means nothing. That is not legalism.
     
  10. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    I won't argue with you.. you win..
     
  11. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. Didn't know it was about winning.
     
  12. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    I stated my case you disagree.. to me it's not about winning. But what we are doing isn't helpful, and none believers love it..
     
  13. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Here is an example of why I have a problem with your kind of "christianity". First you say "you win..", and then you say "to me it's not about winning.". It is that kind of hypocrisy that turns the non-believer off, not the discussion of scripture. Similar are those who claim to be Christian, and yet consistently vote for the likes of Trump rather then a righteous man. And then they whine about the loss of Christian belief in the country.

    As we find in James 5: 19, 20

    "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."
     
  14. Alexia

    Alexia Member

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    So all these women that have come forward with the same tales, what does it say about him? We can hear the tapes as well, so their stories seem valid and correlate with what he has been recorded as saying. Women that still defend him need their heads tested, what if it was them that had to put up with abuse?
     
  15. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Fooling around is not right but selling political favor from a cabinet level position is unthinkable.
     
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