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The Sleaziness Of Trump

Discussion in 'Elections & Political Parties' started by Old_Trapper70, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    We have known all along how sleazy Trump is, well, those who have values, or integrity, knew anyway. The latest revelation only confirms what we already knew. What is revealing is how sleazy his supporters are:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/o...-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

    "Gov. Mike Pence, you are proud to be a Christian conservative. Is this a man you would want at your dinner table, let alone in the Oval Office?

    Speaker Paul Ryan, you couldn’t possibly want Donald Trump as a role model for your children. Why do you diminish yourself by urging him on the country?

    Senator Kelly Ayotte, you said this week in your race for re-election from New Hampshire that Mr. Trump was a role model for children. Then you said you’d misspoken but you still planned to vote for him, even though you weren’t actually endorsing him. Will you continue to tie yourself in knots like this?"
     
  2. rz3300

    rz3300 Member

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    It feels like everyday something comes out that really calls into question this guy's beliefs and his actions, and then everyday there is this defense of it. I don't get it, but it continues to happen over and over again. I hope that people can wake up before it is too late, but I am fearful this will not happen.
     
  3. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Attacking Trump over sleeve in relation to Clinton is a losing proposition.
    Sure, he runs his mouth, hardly the only guy that does that. But rape either as a practice or avid defense is a whole other matter.
     
    grumpy likes this.
  4. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    He is being sued for rape, and many other women have accused him of verbal abuse. However, it is Trump that is bringing up Clinton's past, and as he does Clinton will respond with what he knows since he, and Trump, have been friends for 30 years, and played around together.
     
  5. Alexia

    Alexia Member

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    Using information gained in a friendship isn't exactly ethical either. What I find disturbing is people using the excuse saying that's how he used to be. He still is that way and he admitted it. I doubt he would have apologized unless he was told to do so.

    What is also a concern is people saying it was so long ago; does bullying or murdering people a decade ago make it okay? No, so why should his actions be excused? He was making defamatory remarks about someone.
     
  6. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    You can't defend what trump said, As a Christian I think by doing so you lose your witness. As it appears, either Trump or Hillary would be a punishment on this nation, and we would deserve it. If these are the representatives of our values that we clamor for, even our Christians, then is this nation worth saving, or do we belong on the ash heap of history?

    I offer this for your consideration: At a crossroads, you don’t have to take the left or the right. Sometimes, you just go straight ahead. There comes a time to stay the course and not be distracted or led astray by doubt, fear, or party loyalty.
     
  7. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see but one, or two, defending Trump, and I said a long time ago that the "christian" has sold his soul for manna's sake. Then too, this has been a long time coming. It did not just begin with this election.
     
  8. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    I won't judge any ones salvation, and I know how this all ends..We win.
     
  9. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    I noticed you quote scripture on your post....So I found this little gem, it’s a quote from Proverbs 29:2, “When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice…” So let’s all seek Gods guidance, and pray.
     
  10. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully you are not saying scripture is wrong when it says such things as "judge them by their works". Christ Himself gave us directions as to how one can determine who is saved, and who is not:

    Matthew 7:16-23

    "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

    As to how it all ends, I guess this again is a matter of perspective. While one can say they win in death if they lived a godly life, or believed in the saving grace of Christ, can one really they have won if they are one of those martyred for their faith? Can one truly win if they are tortured for their faith? Yes, you will win in the perspective of gaining eternal life, however, you lost your earthly existence to do so.
     
  11. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Do not ignore this one:

    Romans 13: 1,2

    "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."
     
  12. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Why would I ignore it ?
     
  13. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Paul writes in 1 Thessalonians that we are to “examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil.” This is the call to biblical discernment, to exercise the wisdom we have in the situations that present themselves. The apostle John writes, "Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1John 4:1). We are to test those who would lead us, and we do this by asking the right questions.

    Throughout the course of our life, you will be presented with many different leaders, religious and secular almost begging for your support. The question to ask is not “Does it feel good to support them, even if they are divisive and hateful?” The question(s) to ask is “Can I hold fast to what is good and support this candidate? Does my support for this candidate overshadow my Christian calling?”

    Billy Graham said,
    Voting is our right, purchased by patriots often at great cost. We should vote for candidates that reflect our values. But the privilege we have to call ourselves Christians, is far more precious than our political ideology. It was purchased at an infinitely greater cost. As Christians we do little to advance our politics when we do so at the expense of our faith.
     
  14. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting proposal, and most of which I would agree with. The one thing I would disagree with is the comment of yours "The question(s) to ask is 'Can I hold fast to what is good and support this candidate?' "

    My support for, or my opposition to, a certain candidate has no effect on my personal beliefs, or my own values. So, the question is should I support one who does not reflect my values, and if so what would the lack of those values in a leader do to the country. Obviously the person is not going to affect my personal spirituality. He/she may affect my physical life, and to what concern should I give that? As it says in Matthew 6: 25 "Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?"

    Samuel Adams expressed the idea of the Founders quite well with this statement:

    "A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America that the whole force of the common enemy... While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader... If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security."

    By voting for the two major party candidates the people have shown that they no longer care for the virtue, and the goodness, that has made this country great. In that context I would say that America as the Founders envisioned it will be destroyed. The question then will be will the people repent, and return to the virtue that made the country great? Will there be yet another Great Revival, or yet another Azusa Street? Or will the country just simply "deteriorate" into a third world country?
     
  15. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Salvation is being delivered from the righteous judgment of God that will fall upon those who have sinned by breaking his law. In order to be saved from that judgment we must trust Christ. We must receive what he has done on the cross on our behalf as a substitute for us, who removes our sin (Heb. 9:26; 2 Pet. 2:24) and gives us righteousness (Phil. 3:9). This can only be done by faith because our righteous deeds are filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6).

    There are different groups that teach that salvation is attained by doing good works and trusting in Christ, such as Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. But this cannot be so. Sure, we want people to do good works, but it is not the good works that contribute to salvation. Let's take a look at two sections of Scripture where Jesus teaches on this topic, Matt. 7:22-23 and Luke 18:9-14.

    This one you quoted..Matt. 7:22-23, "Many will say to Me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?" 23 And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."

    You can see that on the day of judgment there will be people who believe in God and will appeal for their salvation based on their faith in him (they call him Lord) and their good deeds, i.e., prophesying, casting out demons, and performing miracles. Yet Jesus condemns them. Why? It is because they are appealing to their faith and works.

    Luke 18:9:14, "And He also told this parable to certain ones who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer. 11 The Pharisee stood and was praying thus to himself, ‘God, I thank Thee that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax-gatherer. 12 ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax-gatherer, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself shall be humbled, but he who humbles himself shall be exalted.

    In these verses Jesus talks about a Pharisee who believed in God, did good things, and did not do bad things. Yet, he was not saved. On the other hand, the tax gatherer (verse 13) did not appeal to works, but only asked for God's mercy. Jesus says that he was justified, not the Pharisee. That means he was legally righteous in God's eyes. Notice, Jesus taught justification by faith alone.
     
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