Teachers and Education

steveox

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How does everybody feel about schoolteachers and education? Do you think our kids are failing? Are the teachers worth the money. Or should we just have Private education and send the parents the bill instead of taxpayers paying for it?
 
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I think most teachers do a credible job and would whether they worked for the locality or a private concern. There is the usual bell curve of quality among them.

That being said, I suspect that the bell curve is not in effect in certain areas where finding teachers willing to work there which degrades the overall performance. I would also suggest that these same places suffer worst from disinterested parents which is a bigger part of the overall problems than any other reason.

No amount of money changes under performing schools, this is simple fact and amazingly consistent nationwide. If you couple this with the fact that we have markedly upped the teacher count at a time when the birth rate has declined (improving student/teacher rations from both ends) you can see that upping teacher count does nothing to help either.

Regarding your last question, I have no issue with LOCAL government offering education. Thats workeed pretty well for a long long time. I can see states having some degree of oversight in an effort to seek some level of consistancy (not possible as pointed out above but worth some effort). There is no role for the federal government in this. There is no role for unions in any government area as Franklin Roosevelt pointed out back in the day.

The problems in education cannot be solved without addressing out of the classroom issues. But how do you make parent(s) be parent(s) ? That is a tough nut to crack and the solution is not very popular politically.
 
Well my taxes are being wasted on education. Some parents are not being responsible with their children. If Parents were paying the bill ill bet you the start being resposible and disapline their kids if theyre not doing well in school. And get this,,If Teachers class is failing then he or she should get fired just like if youre not being productive in your job and youre not meeting your boss expectations you get fired.
 
Well my taxes are being wasted on education. Some parents are not being responsible with their children. If Parents were paying the bill ill bet you the start being resposible and disapline their kids if theyre not doing well in school. And get this,,If Teachers class is failing then he or she should get fired just like if youre not being productive in your job and youre not meeting your boss expectations you get fired.


it would be fun to see the reaction of privatization ($ 4 education). it would solve the problem but you would have large numbers of kids who get sent to work in the mill/mines... oh wait, not allowed... so even more welfare instead of less (thats what needs to happen to change the parents).

Lose the unions and you partly help getting rid of bad teachers but then you make the job of getting ANY teachers in unattractive areas even more impossible. The main reason against teacher unions is the same as for any other govt union, its just wrong. All the rest is fuel on the fire.
 
Schools should all be privatized and there should be no government interference on any level. While I understand the knee-jerk reaction of thinking letting local government set standards would be a good idea, it's not... Any government "standards" would just lower the bar to the lowest common denominator. Such standards would allow crappy schools to remain in business for the simple fact that parental judgement is being deferred to the state. Many schools would simply look to achieve the bare minimum and not be worse off for it - but the kids would be.

In a free market, the profit motive will induce the best possible outcome - the best performing schools will be the most profitable, the advent of private sector competition will continually increase "standards" and overall education, and crappy schools will go out of business - all without putting the taxpayers on the hook.
 
Administration and Union Bosses are education in America.
All other priorities mean nothing--whatsoever.
More money/benefits/perks for the teachers and administrators and the students are a mere nuisance to be dealt with.

There are many individual great and competent teachers. They are shunned and condescended to.

ONLY privatization--or--extreme local administration would improve anything.
At a level where if an Administrator goes haywire--the locals can go down there and drag him out of his office and hold him accountable.

All you ever hear is they are studying, forming committees, delegating to, analyzing and every other euphemism for "changing something" you can imagine.

One BIG school district--in ONE big city--needs to be ripped apart and dismantled and the rot excised and let it be a lesson and model for the others to follow. Look how every time a good maverick tries to do that--they literally assassinate them.
 
I work in a small alternative school; it is actually two small schools in one building. Our kids do really well but I think the key is parent involvement. Perhaps if you are the kind of person to take the time to put your kids in an alternative school and volunteer you are more likely to care about if your kids have home work and when the tests are coming and study to them. A great teacher can only do so much in a large school with kids who may or may not have parents who care.



I get irritated when I hear from schools that if its mostly poor kids they will do badly compared to the schools where kids have money, as though money is the key. I think if you look at it from another angle you could see as I do that people with money, meaning secure jobs and homes not on dope and partying every night usually are people who are more responsible and put education first in their family lives. There are poor people who are the same and those people will probably be better off than poor a few years down the road.



In another thread someone took issue with me talking about character. They might want to take issue with me again because I think its personal character that is the main driving factor in if your kids are doing well. Though not everyone with character will raise a kid the same as them and not every parent without good character will raise someone like themselves.



Poor parents can take the time to find out if their child has homework or a test coming up they need to study for just as easily as a middle class or upper middle class parent can. It is just a matter of if they are willing to take the time. But realistically if they never took the time in their own lives to do this (being possibly why they are in the situation they are in) the chances are slim that they will take the time with their kids school life that they didn’t take with their own. They may not even know how or where to begin.



I think we should have a program where people can volunteer at schools and for so many hours that you volunteer you get a certain $$ you can deduct from your taxes, if you volunteer in a poor area school your deduction is higher if you volunteer in an affluent school the deduction is less, but still enough to make it worth doing.



This would save millions on the money that currently has to be spent on teacher’s aids. It would also bring more affluent people into the poor community and help the kids who either have parents who don’t care or don’t know how to help them.



The key to good schools is parent involvement. But not every parent can do it. I worked 2 full time jobs when my son was in school and couldn’t be a parent volunteer or have much at all to do with the schools. But working for the largest school district in my area for over 22 years now I have seen what schools do well and what schools are doing poorly and though I would have to say it’s the poor schools doing poorly. But it is due to lack of parents involvement not funds. The school I currently work at is smack dab in the middle of our poorest area and is still one of the best schools because it’s an alternative small school with more parent volunteers than even staff members.

also, getting rid of the unions would be a big help :)
 
Kids are all so different and have different skill sets. Teaching the one-size-fits-all method leaves some struggling and others under-challenged. I've seen young kids around here toting suitcase sized backpacks on rollers, because they are too heavy to carry. Kids need to be kids too, and weighing them down with hours of homework isn't the answer either and a good way to turn them off to school.

Schools don't need a lot of money to teach. They just need dedicated people and a good program that works for all of them where the kids actually can enjoy learning.

I eventually put my kids into a private. It cost a fraction of public and not all of their teachers had degrees. Some of them only taught one subject and were accredited in that subject. If the teacher has good materials to teach from, and is good with kids and creative in their style of teaching, that bodes more benefical to the child than some degreed wizard.
 
I work in a small alternative school; it is actually two small schools in one building. Our kids do really well but I think the key is parent involvement. Perhaps if you are the kind of person to take the time to put your kids in an alternative school and volunteer you are more likely to care about if your kids have home work and when the tests are coming and study to them. A great teacher can only do so much in a large school with kids who may or may not have parents who care.



I get irritated when I hear from schools that if its mostly poor kids they will do badly compared to the schools where kids have money, as though money is the key. I think if you look at it from another angle you could see as I do that people with money, meaning secure jobs and homes not on dope and partying every night usually are people who are more responsible and put education first in their family lives. There are poor people who are the same and those people will probably be better off than poor a few years down the road.



In another thread someone took issue with me talking about character. They might want to take issue with me again because I think its personal character that is the main driving factor in if your kids are doing well. Though not everyone with character will raise a kid the same as them and not every parent without good character will raise someone like themselves.



Poor parents can take the time to find out if their child has homework or a test coming up they need to study for just as easily as a middle class or upper middle class parent can. It is just a matter of if they are willing to take the time. But realistically if they never took the time in their own lives to do this (being possibly why they are in the situation they are in) the chances are slim that they will take the time with their kids school life that they didn’t take with their own. They may not even know how or where to begin.



I think we should have a program where people can volunteer at schools and for so many hours that you volunteer you get a certain $$ you can deduct from your taxes, if you volunteer in a poor area school your deduction is higher if you volunteer in an affluent school the deduction is less, but still enough to make it worth doing.



This would save millions on the money that currently has to be spent on teacher’s aids. It would also bring more affluent people into the poor community and help the kids who either have parents who don’t care or don’t know how to help them.



The key to good schools is parent involvement. But not every parent can do it. I worked 2 full time jobs when my son was in school and couldn’t be a parent volunteer or have much at all to do with the schools. But working for the largest school district in my area for over 22 years now I have seen what schools do well and what schools are doing poorly and though I would have to say it’s the poor schools doing poorly. But it is due to lack of parents involvement not funds. The school I currently work at is smack dab in the middle of our poorest area and is still one of the best schools because it’s an alternative small school with more parent volunteers than even staff members.

also, getting rid of the unions would be a big help :)

Take a lesson here folks--this is a quite eloquent exposition from someone on the "inside".

I would add that we could also find a LOT of people who could teach in grade schools (for a starting point) who did not graduate from a college. They would need to be competent--but that can be tested.

The caste system of college-only teachers is stupid and archaic. I have known MANY women who raised children who could sure as hell teach some as well. THAT is the kind of experience small kids need most.

Experiment. Get the Unions out of there.
 
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Take a lesson here folks--this is a quite eloquent exposition from someone on the "inside".

I would add that we could also find a LOT of people who could teach in grade schools (for a starting point) who did not graduate from a college. They would need to be competent--but that can be tested.

The caste system of college-only teachers is stupid and archaic. I have known MANY women who raised children who could sure as hell teach some as well. THAT is the kind of experience small kids need most.

Experiment. Get the Unions out of there.
Agreed, the unions are a big part of the problem. For example

The education needed to qualify to teach kindergarten is laughable
 
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