GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
The Progs (and some mods) around here claim what we're doing isn't Socialism. They also claim they don't support Socialism. They claim things like bailouts and the nationalization of industries are perfectly in line with the Constitution. Some even have the temerity to claim that America is not a Welfare State.
Fine.
For the purpose of this thread, I'll accept your premise. We're not descending into Marxism. Everything we do is completely constitutional and in line with the free market principles of Capitalism... The questions I have for you are in bold.
According to you, the General Welfare clause says government should PROVIDE (rather than simply promote) for the general welfare of all Americans.
In Soviet Russia, government provided General Welfare for all its citizens; healthcare, a place to live, a job and income, education etc.
What, if anything, is stopping America from providing its citizens with all of the same things via the General Welfare clause?
In Soviet Russia, the government operated on the Marxist principle of "To each according to his need, from each according to their ability."
What, if any, problem do you have with America operating under the same principle?
In Soviet Russia, there was a Progressive income tax, wealth tax and Death tax that effectively redistributed all wealth. (Wealth of the proles that is)
We have a Progressive tax and a Death tax that do the same thing on a different scale but we don't have a wealth tax - yet.
What, if any, opposition would you have to a full blown wealth tax? (this way billionaires and the idle rich are hit with taxes they could otherwise avoid by not having income and by not dieing)
In Soviet Russia, Public Utilities (energy, water, sewage etc.) were all owned by the state.
What, if any, opposition do you have to America nationalizing all Public Utilities?
In Fascist Germany, major Corporations were jointly owned by government, the same way the major banks, AIG, GM, Chrysler and others are jointly owned by the American government today.
What, if any, opposition do you have to the American government taking the same kind of joint ownership over the rest of Americas major corporations? (They could take over partial ownership of the profitable corporations like Wal-Mart and Microsoft)
In Soviet Russia, the state owned 100% of all corporations and business entities.
What, if any, opposition would you have to the American government taking 100% ownership of all corporations and business entities?
In both Soviet Russia and Fascist Germany, there was a one party system.
Should the Republican party disband so that the Democrats can be America's one and only party?
In both Soviet Russia and Fascist Germany, Altruism (the deliberate pursuit of the interests or welfare of others or the public interest.) was the guiding principle of their policies and programs but the public interest always infringes upon the individual rights of minorities. (Jews in Germany being the most well known)
Which is more important, the public interest or the Individual Rights of minorities?
In both Soviet Russia and Fascist Germany, citizens were limited in both their freedom of speech and their freedom of action. Here in America, we pass laws that limit free speech by declaring some speech hate speech. We pass laws that limit our freedom of action by regulating or banning products and services deemed unhealthy or not in our best interest (Prostitution, Gambling, Smoking, Banning Trans-Fats etc).
What, if any, limits should we place on the governments ability to protect us from ourselves?
In both Soviet Russia and Fascist Germany, taxes were not levied to maximize revenue to the government, they were used to punish or reward (control) the behavior of their citizens.
Should the American government have its power of taxation limited to maximizing revenue or should we continue to let the government use taxation to control our behavior, regardless of the effect it has on revenue?
Lastly... Objectivism is the philosophy that most closely mirrors my own. If you read through the philosophy, or already are familiar with it, you will gain some perspective as to why I support the positions and issues that I do and why logic is important to me. Unlike many here on the forum, I'm not here to "debate" anything or convince anyone of anything but those who are here for those purposes are easy to spot because they employ logical fallacies and emotional appeals to support their positions. Understanding why people hold their positions on issues is more important to me than understanding what their positions on issues are.
What philosophy do you ascribe to, or comes closest to your own?
Fine.
For the purpose of this thread, I'll accept your premise. We're not descending into Marxism. Everything we do is completely constitutional and in line with the free market principles of Capitalism... The questions I have for you are in bold.
According to you, the General Welfare clause says government should PROVIDE (rather than simply promote) for the general welfare of all Americans.
In Soviet Russia, government provided General Welfare for all its citizens; healthcare, a place to live, a job and income, education etc.
What, if anything, is stopping America from providing its citizens with all of the same things via the General Welfare clause?
In Soviet Russia, the government operated on the Marxist principle of "To each according to his need, from each according to their ability."
What, if any, problem do you have with America operating under the same principle?
In Soviet Russia, there was a Progressive income tax, wealth tax and Death tax that effectively redistributed all wealth. (Wealth of the proles that is)
We have a Progressive tax and a Death tax that do the same thing on a different scale but we don't have a wealth tax - yet.
What, if any, opposition would you have to a full blown wealth tax? (this way billionaires and the idle rich are hit with taxes they could otherwise avoid by not having income and by not dieing)
In Soviet Russia, Public Utilities (energy, water, sewage etc.) were all owned by the state.
What, if any, opposition do you have to America nationalizing all Public Utilities?
In Fascist Germany, major Corporations were jointly owned by government, the same way the major banks, AIG, GM, Chrysler and others are jointly owned by the American government today.
What, if any, opposition do you have to the American government taking the same kind of joint ownership over the rest of Americas major corporations? (They could take over partial ownership of the profitable corporations like Wal-Mart and Microsoft)
In Soviet Russia, the state owned 100% of all corporations and business entities.
What, if any, opposition would you have to the American government taking 100% ownership of all corporations and business entities?
In both Soviet Russia and Fascist Germany, there was a one party system.
Should the Republican party disband so that the Democrats can be America's one and only party?
In both Soviet Russia and Fascist Germany, Altruism (the deliberate pursuit of the interests or welfare of others or the public interest.) was the guiding principle of their policies and programs but the public interest always infringes upon the individual rights of minorities. (Jews in Germany being the most well known)
Which is more important, the public interest or the Individual Rights of minorities?
In both Soviet Russia and Fascist Germany, citizens were limited in both their freedom of speech and their freedom of action. Here in America, we pass laws that limit free speech by declaring some speech hate speech. We pass laws that limit our freedom of action by regulating or banning products and services deemed unhealthy or not in our best interest (Prostitution, Gambling, Smoking, Banning Trans-Fats etc).
What, if any, limits should we place on the governments ability to protect us from ourselves?
In both Soviet Russia and Fascist Germany, taxes were not levied to maximize revenue to the government, they were used to punish or reward (control) the behavior of their citizens.
Should the American government have its power of taxation limited to maximizing revenue or should we continue to let the government use taxation to control our behavior, regardless of the effect it has on revenue?
Lastly... Objectivism is the philosophy that most closely mirrors my own. If you read through the philosophy, or already are familiar with it, you will gain some perspective as to why I support the positions and issues that I do and why logic is important to me. Unlike many here on the forum, I'm not here to "debate" anything or convince anyone of anything but those who are here for those purposes are easy to spot because they employ logical fallacies and emotional appeals to support their positions. Understanding why people hold their positions on issues is more important to me than understanding what their positions on issues are.
What philosophy do you ascribe to, or comes closest to your own?