Scores dead as Israel attacks Gaza

[numinus]

I am not sure I agree that it is goat herder logic that is the problem. I think the land they fight over is more about Judaism/Islam. I think if that particular land was not so important to both faiths there would not be such a problem.

I disagree. The most populous muslim nation in the world doesn't seem to have a problem coexisting with their neighbors of whatever religion.

This problem is about goat-herders having delusions of grandeur.

 

[numinus]

OK, I can see that point. However, Israel, with its military superiority, has a moral obligation to take that into account and go to extremes to avoid as many civilian deaths as possible, IMO. When a two year old kicks you in the shins, you don't punch him in the face.

That moral obligation pales in comparison to israel's obligation TO PROTECT ITS CITIZENS FROM EXTERNAL ATTACK. This is not some vague political concept based on some obscure international law. This is like 9/11 happening on a regular basis.

Take note that hamas is not accountable to the people living in gaza nor the international community. It is accountable only to itself. That is the problem -- it behaves like a sovereign (that is, it unilaterally exercises the power to commit its nation to war with another sovereign nation, and the logical consequences of such a war to civilians) with neither due process nor consultation with its people. In political science, that is called a FAILED STATE.

When a sovereign nation like israel negotiates with another sovereign nation, it is but natural that both nations become accountable to the terms of the agreement, no? In the case of hamas, who exactly is it accountable to? Heck, they don't even own up to the collateral damage wrought by their brand of chicken$hit warfare. Is that the kind of organization that could be held accountable to the community of nations?

 

[numinus]

OK, on a more serious note here, but without discounting my previous ideas concerning a peaceful settlement of a very complex issue, I dont think either side is innocent.

It isn't a question of innocence. Any sovereign nation has the RIGHT to do whatever means at its disposal to maintain its integrity.

That is why it has a military to begin with.

Gaza, the west bank and golan heights were originally annexed to serve as a buffer. They were given up on purely political grounds. Now, israel do not have the luxury of a fall back position. Any mistake, any failure to respond in a timely and decisive manner would have very steep consequences.

If I were in israel's shoes, I'd retake as much territory in the north, west and south as I could. I will leave no room for syria, jordan or egypt, or their goat-herder cohorts like hamas and hezbollah to maneuver anywhere near the border. If I hear so much as a fart near the border, the response would be swift and severe. And to hell with european surrender-monkeys who have nothing better to do than to coddle these goat-herders.

 

[tranquill]

Israeli dissident analytic writes that IDF op in Gaza is already stuck, Israelis are bogged down, and basically that's the end of the war: http://samsonblinded.org/news/israeli-attack-on-gaza-loses-momentum-5424

 

[Basil]

this is my first post. before i say anything, I am a palestinian, originally from gaza.

i dont want to talk about the israeli palestinian confict nor either right to exist at the moment. i only signed into this forum to see what pepole thinks about what is happening.

all i see is that palestinians are getting killed in dozens, about 500 palestinians died. others that are not dead by Israili flights are dying out of hunger, lack of medicine and medical care! and more than 3000 palestinians are injured.
look at this from a human point of view! isnt this torrisem we all wish to end?

the palestinan kid who saw his mom, dad or brother how do you expect him to respond?

i know my language is not that good, and what i said may be irrelevant! but i just cant see that much ppl getting killed because of nothing they did! and stay calm

 

[Pandora]

this is my first post. before i say anything, I am a palestinian, originally from gaza.

i dont want to talk about the israeli palestinian confict nor either right to exist at the moment. i only signed into this forum to see what pepole thinks about what is happening.

all i see is that palestinians are getting killed in dozens, about 500 palestinians died. others that are not dead by Israili flights are dying out of hunger, lack of medicine and medical care! and more than 3000 palestinians are injured.
look at this from a human point of view! isnt this torrisem we all wish to end?

the palestinan kid who saw his mom, dad or brother how do you expect him to respond?

i know my language is not that good, and what i said may be irrelevant! but i just cant see that much ppl getting killed because of nothing they did! and stay calm

That is so sad that people are dying of hunger. why dont they move to a location that they wont die of hunger? If my daughter were dying of hunger here, I would move to a better place.

I am sorry that palestinian civilians are dying, but how many Israelies civilians must die in cafe bombings and bus bombings before you see them as human beings too?

If no one ever attacked Israel and they started attacking, I would see your point but they are responding to years of attacks, they cant keep taking it and bending over and taking it and taking it, eventually they will break and strike back, just like a dog if you keep hitting them and hitting them, they may not bite the first few times you hit them but eventually that dog will bite. Israel took all they could take from Hamas, they bit. Hopefully it will be like the 6 day war. But also hopefully hamas wont yell uncle till they are really ready to stop it not just regroup.

 

[Basil]

that is there home, where else do you want them to go?
and even if they tried, the strip is surrunded by israeli land everywhere. and the border with egypt is close so that nothing can leave gaza.

you say hamas attacked israel first. but hamas say they are responding to israeli offenses and sige from ayear and half, which is a result of hamas taking over gaza strip.

we can go back in a chain of attacks and counter attacks to the year of 1948 or even before that, and we wont stop arguing. what am talking about is thatpeople are dying, and somthing have to be done to stop that!

i really hope this all end soon because i have alot of loved ones living in gaza that i lost contact with for more than a week now .

 

[numinus]

this is my first post. before i say anything, I am a palestinian, originally from gaza.

i dont want to talk about the israeli palestinian confict nor either right to exist at the moment. i only signed into this forum to see what pepole thinks about what is happening.

all i see is that palestinians are getting killed in dozens, about 500 palestinians died. others that are not dead by Israili flights are dying out of hunger, lack of medicine and medical care! and more than 3000 palestinians are injured.
look at this from a human point of view! isnt this torrisem we all wish to end?

the palestinan kid who saw his mom, dad or brother how do you expect him to respond?

i know my language is not that good, and what i said may be irrelevant! but i just cant see that much ppl getting killed because of nothing they did! and stay calm

That is sad.

What is even sadder is that you muslim 'brothers' could provide you with thousands of kassam rockets and yet, cannot extend to you the means to a decent life.

And to think that at one point in history, islam brought forth a civilization considered the epitome of human culture and learning.

Tragic.

 

[Basil]

when someone cuts the food and oil supply on civilians. for a year and a half! that is a crime agains humanity. no matter what hamas did, this is a punishment for everyone in gaza. if you are a teacher in a class and some kids were annoying. you will punish the whole class? that doesnt make sense to me!

again,, i am not supporting hamas, i just think about the people living there who just want to live in peace

 

[Pandora]

that is there home, where else do you want them to go?
and even if they tried, the strip is surrunded by israeli land everywhere. and the border with egypt is close so that nothing can leave gaza.

you say hamas attacked israel first. but hamas say they are responding to israeli offenses and sige from ayear and half, which is a result of hamas taking over gaza strip.

we can go back in a chain of attacks and counter attacks to the year of 1948 or even before that, and we wont stop arguing. what am talking about is thatpeople are dying, and somthing have to be done to stop that!

i really hope this all end soon because i have alot of loved ones living in gaza that i lost contact with for more than a week now .

I hope it ends soon too. But I wonder, do you really not know that in the last couple of years there have been scores of hamas people sending suicide bombers on civilian busses and in civilian cafes blowing up as many Israilies as possible? Sometimes the Israil army does nothing sometimes they are able to find a house that the terrorists are working from and bomb the house, even when they bomb a terrorist house they get crap from people. it seems to me that those who oppose Israel will only be happy when they lay down and die, but that wont happen, it cant happen.

I think the palistinian people are probably very nice people and they are not the problem, its hamas. If the palistinians would get better leaders instead of terrorists there might be peace.

 

[numinus]

when someone cuts the food and oil supply on civilians. for a year and a half! that is a crime agains humanity.

You need to enlighten me on this one. Gaza has access to the mediterranean, does it not? It also adjoins egypt, no? Why can't food and oil pass through there?

no matter what hamas did, this is a punishment for everyone in gaza. if you are a teacher in a class and some kids were annoying. you will punish the whole class? that doesnt make sense to me!

It makes perfect sense when the rest of the class refuses to give up the culprit. Ive been in mass detentions a number of times in highschool.

again,, i am not supporting hamas, i just think about the people living there who just want to live in peace

If you allow hamas to use your community as a launching pad and storage facility for rockets fired at israel, then you will never live in peace.

 

[Pandora]

You need to enlighten me on this one. Gaza has access to the mediterranean, does it not? It also adjoins egypt, no? Why can't food and oil pass through there?



It makes perfect sense when the rest of the class refuses to give up the culprit. Ive been in mass detentions a number of times in highschool.



If you allow hamas to use your community as a launching pad and storage facility for rockets fired at israel, then you will never live in peace.

Great points there, the last one says it all really!

 

[Basil]

israel controls the shore of gaza and prevent every shipment to inter gaza from water,, except that one time when a group of europian peace activist tried to break the sige on gaza. gaza is not an independant country, we never had our full control over our borders. and whenever israel want to close it it does! and cut the food and oil on the 1.5 million palestinian in the gaza strip. when people have nothing to go, nothing to do, while they watch there kids dying of hunger, what do you expect them to do?

 

[Basil]

hamas is a part of palestinian people. and it is not really the proplem. palestinian people -including me- where kicked out of there land. to make israeli people who came from all over the world live instead of them! my dad left palestine when he was 10 years old with his family. and since then i dont even have a passport. what i have is a document that allow me a very limited travelling ability and says that i am a refugee. i really dont know what is a proper translation for this document in english!
the fight palestinian fight is for there identity.

 

[Basil]

i dont think the rockets launched by hamas is the solution for anything,, but i understand why they do it. those people are desperate. and bombing 507 people in a week, including about 30 percent of children is not a solution either.

all i hope for is to stop the attack on gaza now! i know dreaming about another solutions at this moment is just what it is,,,, a dream