Russia finishes giving Georgia licking

Of course it is about power. But Russia is not stupid. Particularly Putin. (regardless of his background etc). Seems that folks have not heard that currently, Putin is acknowledged as the smartest politican/ leader on the planet. He makes the USG look like the idiots they are. They KNOW that the world is different now , so whatever power ploy they are on , has different dimensions and aspects to it. Just as other nations change evolve and emerge in a new /revised form........ so is Russia. The perception that it wants its OLD Empire back.... is silly. Why would it want to go backwards??

The russians, their soviet predecessors, and the tsars before them have done NOTHING for a thousand years but gobble up surrounding territory, and yet you are dumbfounded as to the motives of the latest strong man? Now THAT'S FUNNY! :D

What is REALLY laughable , is folks defending the US CRIMES and elective unprovoked invasions based on LIES.

I've waited for five years for any appeaser to prove the "Bush lied" mantra, and none ever have. It's just a silly-ass slogan that is endlessly repeated - nothing more.

Is the US going to go around this entire planet and depose every leader IT deams to be a "dictator"??

Ewwwwwwwwww........ scornful quotes around "dictator"?? You doubt Saddam was a dictator???!! :D Stop - you're sending me into a giggling jag!! :p

IF so, it will be neck deep in blood shed , death and war crimes for years to come. Given the mess it makes in nations that it does ATTACK...../ INVADE...... it's possible/ probable success rate is zilch.

"blah blah blah" .... The iraqis and their neighbors were up to their throats in the blood of millions killed, tortured, executed by explosive and other novel means, gassed, sent to rape rooms while saddam was in charge - that's the part appeasers leave out of the story. Because they do so, most americans just discount them - it's clear that their problem is not with people dying, but rather the US per se.
 
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Blowback From Bear-Baiting


by Patrick J. Buchanan

Mikheil Saakashvili's decision to use the opening of the Olympic Games to cover Georgia's invasion of its breakaway province of South Ossetia must rank in stupidity with Gamal Abdel-Nasser's decision to close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships.

Nasser's blunder cost him the Sinai in the Six-Day War. Saakashvili's blunder probably means permanent loss of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

After shelling and attacking what he claims is his own country, killing scores of his own Ossetian citizens and sending tens of thousands fleeing into Russia, Saakashvili's army was whipped back into Georgia in 48 hours.

Vladimir Putin took the opportunity to kick the Georgian army out of Abkhazia, as well, to bomb Tbilisi, and to seize Gori, birthplace of Stalin.

Reveling in his status as an intimate of George Bush, Dick Cheney, and John McCain, and America's lone democratic ally in the Caucasus, Saakashvili thought he could get away with a lightning coup and present the world with a fait accompli.

Mikheil did not reckon on the rage or resolve of the Bear.

American charges of Russian aggression ring hollow. Georgia started this fight – Russia finished it. People who start wars don't get to decide how and when they end.
Are you paying attention, america??
Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush. CRY BABY , warmonger whimpers when someone else does what he has done

True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"?

Russia has invaded a sovereign country, railed Bush. But did not the United States bomb Serbia for 78 days and invade to force it to surrender a province, Kosovo, to which Serbia had a far greater historic claim than Georgia had to Abkhazia or South Ossetia, both of which prefer Moscow to Tbilisi?

Is not Western hypocrisy astonishing? Yes, indeed.

When the Soviet Union broke into 15 nations, we celebrated. When Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia, Montenegro, and Kosovo broke from Serbia, we rejoiced. Why, then, the indignation when two provinces, whose peoples are ethnically separate from Georgians and who fought for their independence, should succeed in breaking away?

Are secessions and the dissolution of nations laudable only when they advance the agenda of the neocons, many of whom viscerally detest Russia?

That Putin took the occasion of Saakashvili's provocative and stupid stunt to administer an extra dose of punishment is undeniable. But is not Russian anger understandable? For years the West has rubbed Russia's nose in her Cold War defeat and treated her like Weimar Germany.


When Moscow pulled the Red Army out of Europe, closed its bases in Cuba, dissolved the evil empire, let the Soviet Union break up into 15 states, and sought friendship and alliance with the United States, what did we do?

American carpetbaggers colluded with Muscovite Scalawags to loot the Russian nation. Breaking a pledge to Mikhail Gorbachev, we moved our military alliance into Eastern Europe, then onto Russia's doorstep. Six Warsaw Pact nations and three former republics of the Soviet Union are now NATO members.

Bush, Cheney, and McCain have pushed to bring Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. This would require the United States to go to war with Russia over Stalin's birthplace and who has sovereignty over the Crimean Peninsula and Sebastopol, traditional home of Russia's Black Sea fleet.

When did these become U.S. vital interests, justifying war with Russia?

The United States unilaterally abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty because our technology was superior, then planned to site anti-missile defenses in Poland and the Czech Republic to defend against Iranian missiles, though Iran has no ICBMs and no atomic bombs. A Russian counter-offer to have us together put an antimissile system in Azerbaijan was rejected out of hand.

We built a Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline from Azerbaijan through Georgia to Turkey to cut Russia out. Then we helped dump over regimes friendly to Moscow with democratic "revolutions" in Ukraine and Georgia, and tried to repeat it in Belarus.

Americans have many fine qualities. A capacity to see ourselves as others see us is not high among them.

Imagine a world that never knew Ronald Reagan, where Europe had opted out of the Cold War after Moscow installed those SS-20 missiles east of the Elbe. And Europe had abandoned NATO, told us to go home and become subservient to Moscow.

How would we have reacted if Moscow had brought Western Europe into the Warsaw Pact, established bases in Mexico and Panama, put missile defense radars and rockets in Cuba, and joined with China to build pipelines to transfer Mexican and Venezuelan oil to Pacific ports for shipment to Asia? And cut us out? If there were Russian and Chinese advisers training Latin American armies, the way we are in the former Soviet republics, how would we react? Would we look with bemusement on such Russian behavior?

For a decade, some of us have warned about the folly of getting into Russia's space and getting into Russia's face. The chickens of democratic imperialism have now come home to roost – in Tbilisi.


source of this well appointed article:

http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=13305
 
blah blah blah" .... The iraqis and their neighbors were up to their throats in the blood of millions killed, tortured, executed by explosive and other novel means, gassed, sent to rape rooms while saddam was in charge - that's the part appeasers leave out of the story. Because they do so, most americans just discount them - it's clear that their problem is not with people dying, but rather the US per se.



blah , blah , blah, indeed. Right out of the bible of US neo cons. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Return to the Cold War for John McCain
A bare-knuckle confrontation with Russia is just what the Republican candidate needed


They obviously don't teach Cold War history at the law schools at Columbia University in New York or George Washington in the nation's capital, otherwise Georgia's president, Mikhail Saakashvili, who attended both institutions, would have thought twice about encouragement from the US for his ill-fated attack on South Ossetia a week ago.

Saakashvili could have read vivid accounts of broadcasts, via the CIA-controlled Radio Free Europe, encouraging the Hungarians in 1956 to believe that if they rose against the Soviet occupier Nato troops would race to their aid. The CIA's director of operations, Frank Wisner, fervently hoped for intervention, but President Eisenhower never had the slightest intention of providing it. Wisner was devastated and suffered a breakdown, ultimately committing suicide.

Another lesson for Saakashvili from this
period of savage Cold War tension came in the dawn of the Kennedy administration when Cuban exiles, seeking to topple Castro in the Bay of Pigs landing, waited vainly for US air support which they thought the CIA had guaranteed. Kennedy declined to make such an order and the furious exiles claimed they had been stabbed in the back. Some think they took revenge with the assassination of JFK nearly three years later.

There are well-known Americans with an identifiable motive for encouraging Saakashvili to believe that his onslaught on South Ossetia would receive support more substantial than some pro forma quacks of protest from George Bush, dragging his eyes from the comely swimmers and beach volleyball players in Beijing to the anodyne text placed in font of him by his advisors.

Republican contender John McCain needs bare-knuckle confrontations with America's enemies. In such eyeball-to-eyeball crises he can strut before the cameras as the seasoned warrior with 'experience', unafraid to lead America to the very brink of .........



source:http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/45131,opinion,georgias-loss-is-john-mccains-gain
 
One iissue with what Pat said is that Gorgis troops never left there land, and in fact under all laws the areas in question are under their power. And it was not he US that went into Kosavo..that was again many nations, UN I belive or at least nato....and we pushed for talks for some time before useing any force...also there was that whole Genocide thing going..

They are not the same, but he does have good points about the retarded US policy around teh world.
 
Bush says: 'Bullying' unacceptable

Earlier in the day, U.S. President George Bush chastised Russia for its actions over the past week, saying the Cold War is over and the recent "bullying" is unacceptable.



............. Well, if THAT ain't the pot calling the kettle black, NOTHING is. Each time this sorry sod opens his mouth , it is only to change feet. According to him...... only he and the US are allowed to BULLY anyone they want , when they want. If it were not so pathetically tragic,& STUPID it would be hysterical.
"With its actions in recent days Russia has damaged its credibility and its relations with the nations of the free world," Bush said.

"Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century." Coming from the one who perfected bullying, he would know

Bush said Russia sees Georgia -- a former Soviet state that is now a democratic nation with hopes of joining NATO -- as a threat. He said the opposite is true -- that "free and prosperous" societies on Russia's borders will serve as sources of stability and economic strength.

Is he INSANE?? does he just make things up as he goes along. GEORGIA ATTACKED RUSSIA. and he is twisting it all around to make Georgia the victim. My goodness , this pathetic sociopathic lying loser is doing the US so proud. After all , they CHOSE him TWICE


Russia might have gone into overkill. but Georgia opened the door on that one. (with the strong possibility that the US was behind it as well )


Source of this little tidbit :http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...russia_georgia_080815/20080815?hub=TopStories
 
Saakashvili could have read vivid accounts of broadcasts, via the CIA-controlled Radio Free Europe, encouraging the Hungarians in 1956 to believe that if they rose against the Soviet occupier Nato troops would race to their aid. The CIA's director of operations, Frank Wisner, fervently hoped for intervention, but President Eisenhower never had the slightest intention of providing it. Wisner was devastated and suffered a breakdown, ultimately committing suicide.

I would like to see links to a credible source that shows RFE said NATO would support a hungarian revolt.

Another lesson for Saakashvili from this
period of savage Cold War tension came in the dawn of the Kennedy administration when Cuban exiles, seeking to topple Castro in the Bay of Pigs landing, waited vainly for US air support which they thought the CIA had guaranteed. Kennedy declined to make such an order and the furious exiles claimed they had been stabbed in the back. Some think they took revenge with the assassination of JFK nearly three years later.

That is quite true - democrats have abandoned US allies again and again, and if Obama gets elected, it will happen yet again.
 
America botches Georgia
By H.D.S. Greenway Published: August 19, 2008

In years to come, the short, sharp Russo-Georgian war may be remembered as the nadir of American post-Cold War power and influence - the moment in the closing months of George W. Bush's hapless administration when all the damage that he has done to America's position in the world came into focus.

The United States encouraged Georgia into thinking it was under American protection, built up and trained its armed forces with a little help from the Israelis, established one of the biggest embassies in the region to make it a center of American influence in the Caucasus, and, despite private warnings, issued public statements of undying support. And now America's client is wiping blood from its nose. The wreckage of Georgia's towns and countryside, however, is not as complete as the ruin of Bush's policies.

Having misread America's mixed signals, it is President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia who deserves much of the blame. He wanted to restore the breakaway enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia to Georgian control. He badly overplayed his hand. Perhaps he really thought that the patronage of the United States would enable him to get away with rattling the bear's cage. Saakashvili played his America card and found it to be a deuce.

As for Russia, it wanted to reassert itself in the region, and Saakashvili gave it the opportunity. The United States has to stand with Saakashvili now, but when this is over, and when the Russians have withdrawn, he should be spanked.

South Ossetia and Abkhazia clearly do not want to be part of Georgia. The Russians were willing to let stand the ambiguous status of both enclaves - nominally part of Georgia but not under Georgian control. But Saakashvili thought he saw his chance while the world was watching the Olympic Games and sent his troops to upset the delicate status quo.

Source:http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/19/opinion/edgreenway.php



..........Georgia/ USA:.egg on face?? :eek:
 
In other words give Saadashvili the green light and then not show up for the licking the Russians gave Georgia.


Isn't that how the US operates??? It plays down and dirty as it suits its own political agenda. It has turned on its "friends" before. and still does.

There was a time when SH was in US favor too.


the neo cons are not going to surrender their power all that willingly. It remains to be seen how far they are prepared to go to make sure their neo con "heretage" continues in the oval office. The law means nothing to them......except when it applies to everyone else.
 
Russia to US: Checkmate! By William H. Helbig

According to Michel Chossudovsky’s article on the webpage www.Globalreseach.ca, War in the Caucasus: Towards a Broader Russia-US Military Confrontation, Mr. Chossudovsky claims that Georgia’s military intrusion into Southern Ossetia was carefully crafted by the US military and NATO. One of the desired effects of the invasion by Georgia is the destabilization of the region, and the possibility of a larger confrontation with a US – NATO assault against Russia. Since the Bush propaganda machine likes using dates like September 11, 2001 (911), and July 7, 2005 London bombings (7/7), another relevant date is August 8, 2008 (8/8). That is when Russia responded in kind to the brutal assault by Georgia in Southern Ossetia while Vladimir Putin sat across from George W. Bush at the opening ceremonies of the Beijing Olympics. Mr. Putin has certainly learned a thing or two from George W. Bush concerning the manipulation of the media. Russia and China are symbolically intertwined and have announced to the world that they are superpowers that can now challenge a Bush administration that is playing in their backyards, concerned only with oil profits and greed.



Russia’s military incursion into Georgia is certainly a bold move, especially when the entire region is energy rich with fossil fuels and oil transit lines. Russia relied on the Powell Doctrine: to use overwhelming superior force when combating an enemy. Russia systematically destroyed most of the military hardware sold to Georgia by the authorization of the Bush administration. Then Bush accuses Russia of a disproportionate military response in retaliating against Georgia.Since Bush is accustomed to attacking countries with no military armies to speak of, such as Iraq and Afghanistan, his high moral ground has vanished. When Bush invaded and occupied Iraq, that singular event opened the door for any country to invade any other country, like China invading Taiwan, or Russia invading Georgia, on a flimsy pretext. Russia actually has an army, one that has technical parity with the United States, in some cases technical superiority, so Bush may talk tough, but he will not do a thing to agitate Russia militarily. Deep down inside George W. Bush is only a puppet for a larger group of elite corporatists who are running the United States government. A prolonged war with Russia is a losing proposition. Napoleon and Hitler are two familiar examples of mother Russia’s stamina and perseverance. The Russian Bear has emerged from its lair, provoked by Bush’s agitation in the East Central Asian War Theatre, and is now on the prowl.

The area under immediate interest is the Caspian Region and holds vast reserves of fossil fuels, with the Black Sea to the West and the Caspian Sea to the East. All major American oil companies such as Exxon Mobile are duly represented in the region with $billions invested in oil concessions and bribes. The region is crisscrossed with oil pipelines running through Georgia, originating in the Caspian Basin with countries like Azerbaijan and Armenia and other breakaway Soviet Republics like Kazakhstan providing the oil. The pipelines terminate in Turkey with one of the ports in Ceyhan. One famous oil pipeline is the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan oil line, which is a non-OPEC transit line that delivers approximately 1 million barrels per day, and bypasses mother Russia altogether. British Petroleum controls the BTC pipeline and the presence of this oil transit line has dramatically changed the geopolitics of the Caspian Basin. Whoever controls the route of the pipeline, or has the money to re-route the line, creates a vacuum that everyone falls into, all involved positioning him or herself to make a profit – albeit by war if necessary. Therefore, it should come as no surprise that the Bush Administration has arrived in Georgia and the destabilization of the region has begun. The presence of Bush in this region is certainly not about democracy, altruism, or humanitarian responses, but strictly about the control of the oil resources, about shareholder value, and huge oil profits. The Bush elites see nothing but profits from emerging countries that are not privy to the working history of capitalism, and whom are unfairly being befriended by wolves in sheep clothing, who are hell bent in making huge profits, and keeping oil sales in US dollars. If oil were not present in these breakaway republics, peace would be the order of the day. Now, there are unconfirmed reports that the BTC pipeline is severely damaged and no longer transiting oil. Yet the price per barrel has stabilized and in fact is going down slightly, just in time for the November elections in the United States.

from here:http://www.opednews.com/articles/Russia-to-US-Checkmate-by-William-Helbig-080817-628.html
 
The above is a bunch of typical leftwing paranoia about corporations and their supposed insidious US government allies - it is pure speculation and not supported by a single fact.
 
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The above is a bunch of typical leftwing paranoia about corporations and their supposed insidious US government allies - it is pure speculation and not supported by a single fact.

Did anyone expect that Russia would lose?

Russia started the war, plain and simple, I posted on the history of it all in another thread. Of course we would rather "blame the victim"
 
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