Returning Prayer To Schools - Risky !

[dogtowner]

Why not just stick to the constitution, close down the Department of Education, and leave it up to the states?

Then, perhaps, get the federal government to do what it's supposed to do:
Put an end to illegal immigration,
Put a satisfactory end to the wars in Iraq and Afganistan,
Balance the budget,
and get the hell out of our personal lives.

Education is not a function of the federal government.

amen to that

 

[TheJPRD]

Although I'm a Christian, I prefer to avoid religion-based arguments when debating. If we instead look at those moral tenets/principles of various religions, and we debate on the basis of specific behaviors, it's easier to engage the left in debate..... and WIN 100% of the time! The left is morally corrupt. They constantly accuse us Conservatives of being morally dictatorial. They pretend that the progressive left is open-minded and non-judgmental. What an enormous joke! The left has no problem whatever in dictating our national principles of morality. When we Conservatives stray from the lefts "moral" principles, they'll find every way possible to punish us. W e Conservatives should never fear sticking to our moral principles in the face of leftist demogogues! Do the same to them that they do to us, and show them no quarter! The justification is simple. The left is WRONG!

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I think that religion gave the world a basis for simple laws--which is taking it down to brass tacks--but when people started using it as a form of government--that is where the trouble starts.

That INCLUDES the current "atheism = intelligence" nose-hook bill of goods being sold to the naive and uninitiated nowadays.
Leftists always seek some rubric to lead fools down a primrose path--which involves taking their money and demanding they plead unmitigated fealty.
Liberalism is merely the higher echelon of carnies. Pseudo-intellectual gypsies.

 

[PLC1]

Although I'm a Christian, I prefer to avoid religion-based arguments when debating. If we instead look at those moral tenets/principles of various religions, and we debate on the basis of specific behaviors, it's easier to engage the left in debate..... and WIN 100% of the time! The left is morally corrupt. They constantly accuse us Conservatives of being morally dictatorial. They pretend that the progressive left is open-minded and non-judgmental. What an enormous joke! The left has no problem whatever in dictating our national principles of morality. When we Conservatives stray from the lefts "moral" principles, they'll find every way possible to punish us. W e Conservatives should never fear sticking to our moral principles in the face of leftist demogogues! Do the same to them that they do to us, and show them no quarter! The justification is simple. The left is WRONG!

I see you have some strong opinions about "the left".

How do you define "the left?"

 

[GenSeneca]

Education is not a function of the federal government.

Education is not a job for government on any level, not federal, not state, not local. Education is best served in the private sector where competition for education dollars leads to higher quality and lower costs. Government run education, on any level, inevitably results in costs continually going up while the quality of education falls.

 

[GenSeneca]

That INCLUDES the current "atheism = intelligence" nose-hook bill of goods being sold to the naive and uninitiated nowadays.

I'm an Atheist and I do not equate Atheism with intelligence. I am, however, curious to know if you think "Theism = Intelligence"... Are you inherently more intelligent than myself because you believe in God while I do not?

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I'm an Atheist and I do not equate Atheism with intelligence. I am, however, curious to know if you think "Theism = Intelligence"... Are you inherently more intelligent than myself because you believe in God while I do not?

Simply put--"yes".

 

[TheJPRD]

I see you have some strong opinions about "the left". How do you define "the left?"

Would you settle for me answering the question, "What's the meaning of life", that's an easier one? I'll give it a shot, but it's a complicated question. Nevertheless, it's an important question that needs to receive a well-considered answer. If you'll excuse me for now, I promise to do my best to answer your question as best I can within the next day or two.

 

[GenSeneca]

Simply put--"yes".

Based on what? ....And what of those who believe in a different God than the one you believe in, are they also less intelligent than yourself?

 

[GenSeneca]

How do you define "the left?"

I can answer that in one word: Collectivists

Collectivism ... According to Encyclopædia Britannica, "collectivism has found varying degrees of expression in the 20th century in such movements as socialism, communism, and fascism. The least collectivist of these is social democracy, which seeks to reduce the perceived injustices of unrestrained capitalism by government regulation, redistribution of income, and varying degrees of planning and public ownership. In Communist systems collectivist economics are carried to their furthest extreme, with a minimum of private ownership and a maximum of planned economy."​

​

Equally so, I would define "the right" in one word: Individiualists

Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that stresses "the moral worth of the individual".[1] Individualists promote the exercise of one's goals and desires and so value independence and self-reliance[2] while opposing external interference upon one's own interests by society or other institutions such as the government.​

 

[PLC1]

I can answer that in one word: Collectivists

Collectivism ... According to Encyclopædia Britannica, "collectivism has found varying degrees of expression in the 20th century in such movements as socialism, communism, and fascism. The least collectivist of these is social democracy, which seeks to reduce the perceived injustices of unrestrained capitalism by government regulation, redistribution of income, and varying degrees of planning and public ownership. In Communist systems collectivist economics are carried to their furthest extreme, with a minimum of private ownership and a maximum of planned economy."​

​

Equally so, I would define "the right" in one word: Individiualists

Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that stresses "the moral worth of the individual".[1] Individualists promote the exercise of one's goals and desires and so value independence and self-reliance[2] while opposing external interference upon one's own interests by society or other institutions such as the government.​

I'm not sure whether that definition coincides well with TheJRPD's post about morality. Perhaps he has a different definition.

 

[TheJPRD]

I see you have some strong opinions about "the left". How do you define "the left?"

RESPONSE:
PLC1, there are exceptions to every rule that prove the rule. Nevertheless, I believe that my answer to your questions addresses "The Big Picture" of what I see the 'left" to be. I see the American "left" as comprised of three major groups, with subtle differences among the components of each.

Let's call one of those major groups "The Good Hearts". These are people with the very best of intentions. They want the world to be a better place for everyone, and want to eliminate everything that might cause discord. I considered myself part of this group when I was younger, from about 1962-1980. We saw "racism", "sexism", and "war" as unacceptable, and we strove to make things better. This group used to be quite large, for there were obvious failures existing in the US. The size of this group has shrunk greatly in the past 25 years or so. It's been reduced by the resignations of those of us who think logically, and who see that our earlier successes have subsequently been bastardized. This comment is not intended to ridicule the illogical members of this group who continue to vote for liberal Democrats. The folks remaining in this group still want to do the right thing..... however, they're incapable of logically determining what the right thing is. They act and vote on the bases of "Feelings" and "Perceptions", not on "Logic". When Democrat demogogues accuse whites of racisim, these remaining people FEEL the claim is justified. They're incapable of seeing that bigotry against whites is rampant in our country, far more prevalent than white bigotry against citizens of color. When Democrat demogogues claim that we Conservatives are anti-female because of our anti-abortion stance, the folks in this group will agree.... they don't want to be perceived as sexists. They're incapable of reasoning that the taking of an innocent life is FAR worse than inconveniencing a female who's failed to exercize good judgment and self-control! These are the types of folks who Lenin referred to as "useful idiots", a term for them that I find detestable and unjustifed! Most of these folks are decent, loving human beings. However, I'm not sure if they'll ever "get it". Nevertheless, I keep trying to convert them, for their hearts are indeed in the right place. I dearly love many of them.

Let's call the next group "The Losers"! This is by far the largest of the three major groups today. This group consists of the incurably stupid (and unfortunately many of our poorly-educated youth), the self-serving, the self-loving, the "victim class", the "give me what I deserve' crowd, all those who DEMAND everything and contribute nothing. I'm not sure that anything could ever be done to accomplish worthwhile change among such worthless humanity. Perhaps the experiences of life will lead the more-intelligent among our poorly-educated youth to eventually see the light?

This last group, we'll call "The Users"! This group is by far the smallest of the three, and the most foul!!! These are the Masters and the Fuhrers who call the shots of the American left! These people KNOW that their policy positions are wrong for our nation!! These are not stupid people! Nevertheless, they support political positions that damage our nation, and they'll use any means avaliable to implement them. They pursue this path for one reason and one reason only; Personal Power! These are the demogogues of the left. These are the politicians who offer a "free ride" to those who'll vote for them and give them more power. These are the race-baiters, the corrupt union bosses, and the powerful business and financial barons who seek international power for themselves. They care nothing about ensuring the survival of our Constitution and our nation. They seek international dominance for themselves alone. To achieve it, they're willing to discard our Constitution, and destroy our American Republic! These are the internaionalists who believe they'll eventually control the entire world population, a population of slaves!

I used to consider liberal Democrats as simply political opponents, ones who'd be open to honest and well-intentioned debate. I haven't believed that to be true for a long time now. The left in our nation IS the enemy. It must be defeated at ALL costs! The only alternative to our victory is our slavery!

 

[Johnny Tremain]

RESPONSE:
PLC1, there are exceptions to every rule that prove the rule. Nevertheless, I believe that my answer to your questions addresses "The Big Picture" of what I see the 'left" to be. I see the American "left" as comprised of three major groups, with subtle differences among the components of each.

Let's call one of those major groups "The Good Hearts". These are people with the very best of intentions. They want the world to be a better place for everyone, and want to eliminate everything that might cause discord. I considered myself part of this group when I was younger, from about 1962-1980. We saw "racism", "sexism", and "war" as unacceptable, and we strove to make things better. This group used to be quite large, for there were obvious failures existing in the US. The size of this group has shrunk greatly in the past 25 years or so. It's been reduced by the resignations of those of us who think logically, and who see that our earlier successes have subsequently been bastardized. This comment is not intended to ridicule the illogical members of this group who continue to vote for liberal Democrats. The folks remaining in this group still want to do the right thing..... however, they're incapable of logically determining what the right thing is. They act and vote on the bases of "Feelings" and "Perceptions", not on "Logic". When Democrat demogogues accuse whites of racisim, these remaining people FEEL the claim is justified. They're incapable of seeing that bigotry against whites is rampant in our country, far more prevalent than white bigotry against citizens of color. When Democrat demogogues claim that we Conservatives are anti-female because of our anti-abortion stance, the folks in this group will agree.... they don't want to be perceived as sexists. They're incapable of reasoning that the taking of an innocent life is FAR worse than inconveniencing a female who's failed to exercize good judgment and self-control! These are the types of folks who Lenin referred to as "useful idiots", a term for them that I find detestable and unjustifed! Most of these folks are decent, loving human beings. However, I'm not sure if they'll ever "get it". Nevertheless, I keep trying to convert them, for their hearts are indeed in the right place. I dearly love many of them.

Let's call the next group "The Losers"! This is by far the largest of the three major groups today. This group consists of the incurably stupid (and unfortunately many of our poorly-educated youth), the self-serving, the self-loving, the "victim class", the "give me what I deserve' crowd, all those who DEMAND everything and contribute nothing. I'm not sure that anything could ever be done to accomplish worthwhile change among such worthless humanity. Perhaps the experiences of life will lead the more-intelligent among our poorly-educated youth to eventually see the light?

This last group, we'll call "The Users"! This group is by far the smallest of the three, and the most foul!!! These are the Masters and the Fuhrers who call the shots of the American left! These people KNOW that their policy positions are wrong for our nation!! These are not stupid people! Nevertheless, they support political positions that damage our nation, and they'll use any means avaliable to implement them. They pursue this path for one reason and one reason only; Personal Power! These are the demogogues of the left. These are the politicians who offer a "free ride" to those who'll vote for them and give them more power. These are the race-baiters, the corrupt union bosses, and the powerful business and financial barons who seek international power for themselves. They care nothing about ensuring the survival of our Constitution and our nation. They seek international dominance for themselves alone. To achieve it, they're willing to discard our Constitution, and destroy our American Republic! These are the internaionalists who believe they'll eventually control the entire world population, a population of slaves!

I used to consider liberal Democrats as simply political opponents, ones who'd be open to honest and well-intentioned debate. I haven't believed that to be true for a long time now. The left in our nation IS the enemy. It must be defeated at ALL costs! The only alternative to our victory is our slavery!

I am truly dumbfounded.

FOR ONCE--in my life--I have read someone explain **EXACTLY** what I was thinking--almost preciely to the word.



I am around the same age as JPRD I would surmise because of his reference to years mentioned. I was a college student from the late 60's to the early 70's.

I know all the things he was talking about--because I WAS THERE. I, too, fell for the same leftist crap all younger people do.
Solve poverty--HELL--just give them money! But--whose money? Solving problems is always easy with a MAGIC WAND.


He (or she?) has laid out, in a literally stunning and succinct fashion the whole damn situation in the nation today--with the expertise of a gifted writer and an extraordinary thinker. He see things as they are and with a crystal vision.



All of you--read and copy this exposition carefully.
I plan to send it to my friends and associates--because it is that damn good!


It is a great gift that has been given to all of us.
Thanks, JPRD.

 

[TheJPRD]

Johnny, you're being way too kind with your comments. Regardless, I thank you for them. By the way, for future reference, I'm a guy.

 

[PLC1]

I am truly dumbfounded.

FOR ONCE--in my life--I have read someone explain **EXACTLY** what I was thinking--almost preciely to the word.



I am around the same age as JPRD I would surmise because of his reference to years mentioned. I was a college student from the late 60's to the early 70's.

I know all the things he was talking about--because I WAS THERE. I, too, fell for the same leftist crap all younger people do.
Solve poverty--HELL--just give them money! But--whose money? Solving problems is always easy with a MAGIC WAND.


He (or she?) has laid out, in a literally stunning and succinct fashion the whole damn situation in the nation today--with the expertise of a gifted writer and an extraordinary thinker. He see things as they are and with a crystal vision.



All of you--read and copy this exposition carefully.
I plan to send it to my friends and associates--because it is that damn good!


It is a great gift that has been given to all of us.
Thanks, JPRD.

RESPONSE:
PLC1, there are exceptions to every rule that prove the rule. Nevertheless, I believe that my answer to your questions addresses "The Big Picture" of what I see the 'left" to be. I see the American "left" as comprised of three major groups, with subtle differences among the components of each.

Let's call one of those major groups "The Good Hearts". These are people with the very best of intentions. They want the world to be a better place for everyone, and want to eliminate everything that might cause discord. I considered myself part of this group when I was younger, from about 1962-1980. We saw "racism", "sexism", and "war" as unacceptable, and we strove to make things better. This group used to be quite large, for there were obvious failures existing in the US. The size of this group has shrunk greatly in the past 25 years or so. It's been reduced by the resignations of those of us who think logically, and who see that our earlier successes have subsequently been bastardized. This comment is not intended to ridicule the illogical members of this group who continue to vote for liberal Democrats. The folks remaining in this group still want to do the right thing..... however, they're incapable of logically determining what the right thing is. They act and vote on the bases of "Feelings" and "Perceptions", not on "Logic". When Democrat demogogues accuse whites of racisim, these remaining people FEEL the claim is justified. They're incapable of seeing that bigotry against whites is rampant in our country, far more prevalent than white bigotry against citizens of color. When Democrat demogogues claim that we Conservatives are anti-female because of our anti-abortion stance, the folks in this group will agree.... they don't want to be perceived as sexists. They're incapable of reasoning that the taking of an innocent life is FAR worse than inconveniencing a female who's failed to exercize good judgment and self-control! These are the types of folks who Lenin referred to as "useful idiots", a term for them that I find detestable and unjustifed! Most of these folks are decent, loving human beings. However, I'm not sure if they'll ever "get it". Nevertheless, I keep trying to convert them, for their hearts are indeed in the right place. I dearly love many of them.

Let's call the next group "The Losers"! This is by far the largest of the three major groups today. This group consists of the incurably stupid (and unfortunately many of our poorly-educated youth), the self-serving, the self-loving, the "victim class", the "give me what I deserve' crowd, all those who DEMAND everything and contribute nothing. I'm not sure that anything could ever be done to accomplish worthwhile change among such worthless humanity. Perhaps the experiences of life will lead the more-intelligent among our poorly-educated youth to eventually see the light?

This last group, we'll call "The Users"! This group is by far the smallest of the three, and the most foul!!! These are the Masters and the Fuhrers who call the shots of the American left! These people KNOW that their policy positions are wrong for our nation!! These are not stupid people! Nevertheless, they support political positions that damage our nation, and they'll use any means avaliable to implement them. They pursue this path for one reason and one reason only; Personal Power! These are the demogogues of the left. These are the politicians who offer a "free ride" to those who'll vote for them and give them more power. These are the race-baiters, the corrupt union bosses, and the powerful business and financial barons who seek international power for themselves. They care nothing about ensuring the survival of our Constitution and our nation. They seek international dominance for themselves alone. To achieve it, they're willing to discard our Constitution, and destroy our American Republic! These are the internaionalists who believe they'll eventually control the entire world population, a population of slaves!

I used to consider liberal Democrats as simply political opponents, ones who'd be open to honest and well-intentioned debate. I haven't believed that to be true for a long time now. The left in our nation IS the enemy. It must be defeated at ALL costs! The only alternative to our victory is our slavery!

Interesting. You have put a lot of thought into this one.

The Good Hearts did a lot of good back in the days when civil rights was a new idea, it seems to me. Now, yes, racism does cut both ways. In fact, it seems to me that racism is a human failing, not a failing of a particular race. In fact, attributing racism to one race is racism in and of itself. I'm not so sure that your statement that bigotry against whites is rampant in our country, far more prevalent than white bigotry against citizens of color is really based on logic rather than emotion, however. It seems to be about equal. The difference is that whites are more reluctant to talk about it.

The institutionalized racism of the past is gone. I think surely we all can agree that is a good thing.

Abortion is a whole other issue. Personally, I think it is wrong. I don't, however, want to impose my belief on the rest of society. Does that make me a liberal?

The losers as you describe them seem to me to be more apolitical. Are the gang bangers, drug pushers, assorted hoodlums that infest our society really political?

The users as you describe them are simply out for power for themselves. Some of them do play on the desires of the losers who want a free ride, to be sure. I can think right off hand of several examples of this, all of them pretending to champion the little guy, or people of color.

On the other side, I can think of people who are out for power for themselves at any cost who play on the fears of people who consider themselves right wingers, too, can't you?

What do you think of Genseneca's definition of the term? It looks quite different from yours.