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Netanyahu Under Investigation

Discussion in 'Middle Eastern Politics' started by Old_Trapper70, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Let me pin point it for you: "The Prime Minister of Israel, Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu, was questioned today by Israel Police investigators from the Lahav 433 unit, under the instruction of the attorney general, Dr. Avichai Mandelblit, on suspicion of receiving improper benefits from businessmen,”"
    Something that Trump is obviously doing, if not directly (and that has to be proven), at least through his kids!
     
  2. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Your downplaying of the whole investigation is how you are excusing the actions of Netanyahu just as you do with trump.

    Again with the lie. I asked you what the relevance of the scripture you posted was, and you ignored my question. You want to excuse Trumps actions with verses about "love", and then ignore Gods verses about sin.

    Again with the lies. I have not spoken of the Law so why would you refer to it? As to "Grace", grace does not give one the right to sin which you seem to think it does. As I have said before, Grace is only applicable if one repents, and Trump says he has no need to repent.

    Is it an insult to speak the truth about another? Was Christ speaking in evil when He called the Pharisees fools, white washed sepulchers, etc.?

    So prove he did. Like I said before, you are right in that he "excepted" Christ. I don't believe you can prove he ACCEPTED Christ.

    Can a believer, or one who has accepted Christ, lie on a daily basis? I know a Christian can be a sinner, however, one would think accepting Christ would bring about some kind of change in ones life, and Trump has shown no signs of change.
     
  3. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    If one were to look at the topic without the partisan eye, one would see he already has. Trump owns stocks in both oil companies, and the Keystone Pipeline, as well as the Dallas Access Pipeline (DAPL). Kelcy Warren, the owner of DAPL, or Energy Transfer Partners, is friends with Trump, and gave $100,000 dollars to the Trump campaign. He also supported Rick Perry, and gave him a seat on the board of ETP. Four days after Trump took office he signed an Executive Order that removed the blocks to the building of these pipelines that Obama had put in place.

    Of course, the media, and the supporters of Trump, ignored this.
     
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  4. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    That's your Opinion, nothing he's done should surprise anyone. All through Bible history it took some leaders years to change. I was one of his worst nightmares, I hated the guy, he owed me a lot of money from his venture into the Airline business, we reworked all the jet-way's at Houston Intercontinental Airport, that was one of his bankruptcies. I received 0 dollars on that one. Something happened, I'm still not sure what it was, but he changed, or maybe I just couldn't stand to think of Hillary as president. I hope that wasn't it, because the lesser of two evils is still evil.. I pray for him daily..
     
  5. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Jesus grabbing a whip and throwing people out of the temple who were using it for profit is a powerful story, because Jesus preached peace-making, not fighting. He preached patience and gentleness, not anger and violence. If He was getting that angry, it was clear that an extremely grave offense was being committed. The kind of behavior Jesus displayed in the temple that afternoon isn’t by any means forbidden, but it wasn't exactly a daily part of Jesus’ life, either.The story remains powerful because it is an example of how we should reserve this type of action for rare occurrences of extreme injustice, not make it part of our regular lives. It should be so exceptional when we display this kind of righteous anger that people take notice. Not done on an hourly basis..
    Like I've said before..Getting defensive, or simply overly divisive and ungracious, on social media all of the time isn’t Christ like, even if you use the story of Jesus at the temple as an excuse. Which to me is a bridge to far..Jesus’ ministry involved relatively little whipping and table-turning. And the reason the tactic was effective was because it was reserved for an extreme situation. SO,All of the sudden, confrontation stops being uncomfortable and starts being entertaining. Provoking a strong reaction stops becoming a rare occurrence for rare situations and starts becoming a standard part of dialogue. “Loving” your online neighbors and enemies stops looking so loving. Taking out a whip and flipping tables becomes the norm. And your not Jesus..
    Show me proof his not...You can't, so don't waste yout time posting the law, I've known it for years...He won the election. That I didn't think was possible, he changed his stance on abortion, He gave God more credit at his inauguration then any president before him, his wife opened his rally this week with the Lords prayer, Great Supreme court pick, it's only been 4 weeks and he IS on his way to working thru his campaign promises, if you look at his first news conference he used the word we more than I ( that's new)
    In one sense, your statement is correct. The Bible teaches that a person need not ask for saving forgiveness more than once. In other words, once we have appealed to God for mercy, trusting upon His Son to save us from the penalty of sin, then we are saved and will never bear the punishment for our sins. As Paul summarizes in Rom. 10:9: "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved..." Nothing more is required. So if he was saved that day he met and prayed with those pastors, he may have repented that day.. I don't KNOW AND NEITHER DO YOU!
    On the other hand, a Christian is also called by Scripture to maintain a repentant heart, routinely acknowledging sin and seeking God's grace and mercy in the midst of his daily mistakes. These activities are not done with the intent to secure or maintain salvation, yet they are expected nonetheless. Daily mistakes..
     
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  6. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    And history is ALSO full of leaders who went from bad to evil as they gather the support of the masses. Hitler comes to mind. He too FAKED being a Christian, and fooled a lot of people, INCLUDING the Church, who supported him for the first few years, before realising the evil he was really committing against the Jews, the homosexuals, the Gypsies.

    It is a fact that Trump and many in his cabinet are supporting White supremacist and racists. It is a fact that he is using evangelicals to as his base, it is a fact that, like Hitler, he is trying to negate any negative reports and to silence the media.

    Obviously I wish, I hope I was wrong. NO ONE wants to believe that evil like Hitler could rise again. But the signs are certainly there.

    You talked about Jesus' anger toward the pharisiens. . .listen to Pope Francis, and observe the pharisiens in Trump's cabinets: Billionaires, many calling themselves Christians, almost all White, and looking down on ALL that is not like them: the poor, the disabled, the coloured, the non-Christians.

    If Jesus came back today, he would be crucified by Trump's kind of Christians: He would be middle Eastern, dark skin, poor, and speaking for the poor and the disable. He would speak for women, he would speak to preserve our God given nature and our God given free will.

    I am a believer in Jesus. I am a believer in God. ONE GOD, with many faces, assigned to him by the many cultures in this world. I place my faith in God higher than ANY religion, because all religions are man made, therefore imperfect.
     
  7. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Again you distort what I said to support your own ignorance of scripture. Where did I mention the incident at the temple? Do you even have a clie as to where Christ rebuked the Pharisee's? Try reading Matthew 23 before commenting on what you know nothing of.

    Show me where he is any different that when he defrauded the "students" in his phony university. Show me where he has paid retribution to the thousands he has defrauded over the years. Show where he has apologized to his wives. Show me where he has quit lying.

    Show me where God has changed His mind, and is going to allow unrepentant liars, extortioners, and thieves, into the Kingdom of God.

    Where in the world of stupidity did you get that idea at? Post the scripture where it says repentance, and asking for forgiveness is a one time thing.

    So, you are saying that all one has to do is ask for forgiveness one time, and then he is good to go murder, steal, commit adultery, etc. the rest of his life with no eternal repercussions. Try reading Romans 6, or Hebrews 6: 4-8
    "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."

    Again you say that scripture lies to support your own ignorance. Try reading 1 Corinthians 5, and learn how to judge those who claim to be Christian, or there is James 2: 19-22 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"

    Can you show even one example of how Trump has changed since he divorced his first wife? You can't, and so you distort the scripture to defend your actions, and those of Trump.

    2 Timothy 4: 1-4

    "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

    "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

    And with that I will respond to you no more for you have made it quite evident that it is not the Word of God you are interested in, it is the world, and its opinion as long as it supports your own self deception, and perhaps that of others around you.
     
  8. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Did he try to repay you for your loss since his "conversion"? Has he tried to repay anyone he has similarly screwed?
     
  9. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Not yet..
     
  10. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Short version, your ignorance astounds me..I posted examples you ignored them.. Just like you, the Pharisee's thought thay new it all and just like you they stuck to their opinion..good day..
     
  11. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    The Pharisee sound a lot more like Trump and Co than like Old Trapper if you ask me. . .but I know you don't!
     
  12. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    I admire your hopeful outlook! ;)
     
  13. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    They do don't they? You rarely saw Jesus get mad. So why wouldn’t Jesus put His arm around the Pharisees and say: “Great effort on the law-keeping guys. You got a few things wrong. Let me redirect you a little bit, but keep up the good work.”

    He did not say this. Oh Contraire! Jesus blasted them because, rather than being innocently ignorant of His identity and a little misguided, most of the Pharisees were willfully spiritually blind. they had everything to loose, their status everyone looking up to them, and the law of Moses to keep everyone in line.They were special in front of the crowd, but Jesus said no one is special, and there are none good but one, and then he told them exactly what they got wrong in an epic smack-down found in Matthew chapter 23 that Trapper spoke of.

    I use to think the Pharisees simply didn’t recognize their Messiah. Their ignorance seemed innocent, since they were expecting a political savior who would overthrow Rome. Wouldn’t it have been a better strategy to pull them aside in private and prove to them using facts and Scripture that Jesus was their promised Savior? IMO, It's Because it wasn't ignorance, It was liking things the way they were and wanting to keep their power....

    .

    I'm pretty sure Trump knows none of this..
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  14. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Letme tell you why I think Jesus was so hard on the Pharisees? The Pharisees were the Bible scholars of their day. They were experts on obedience to God, and made it their business to make sure everyone else was meticulous about obedience as well. Sound familiar?

    YOU SAID..Again you distort what I said to support your own ignorance of scripture. Where did I mention the incident at the temple? Do you even have a clie as to where Christ rebuked the Pharisee's? Try reading Matthew 23 before commenting on what you know nothing of.

    There is nothing the enemy loves more, than to get Christians’ minds off of the work that was done on their behalf. He loves to fill them with pride and competition so that they exhaust themselves, bringing their own works to the table to receive acceptance that they already have. Step off the wheel my friend, and beware of spiritual bullies. It is already finished!

    “Jesus answered, ‘The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.’” –John 6:29
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  15. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever read "The Brothers Karamazov," By Fyodor Dostoyevsky? One chapter in particular: "The Great Inquisitor." This specific chapter tells the story of the Grand Inquisition in Spain, and it relates perfectly to what you stated above. I suggest you take a look if you haven't read it.

    Basically, it tells the story of the Great Inquisitor during the persecutions of "heretics" in Spain. During that time, Jesus comes back and he is arrested and thrown in jail. He goes through the terrible tortures common during that historical time of hatred, tortured and killings accomplished by the CHURCH, and no one believes that he truly is Christ. . . .no one, EXCEPT the Grand Inquisitor, the high priest who runs the whole show. Before Jesus is to be put to death, the Grand Inquisitor visits him in his jail and Jesus asks him, why, since you know I am Jesus are you condemning me to die? The Grand Inquisitor answers: "Because I am protecting my people. If they knew that we are killing non-believers or heretics against the will of God, they would be guilty and be condemn to eternal fire. But if they ignore the fact that the people who are being tortured and executed are innocent, they, also, will be innocent of crimes, and they will not suffer the fire of hell."

    This is merely a paraphrase, and I haven't read that book in over 20 years. But every time I hear a FALSE Christians spread hatred and act in a way that I KNOW would be against God's wishes, every time I witness the hypocrisy of those Evangelical leaders, and most of the churches leaders spreading the FALSE word of God, while amassing millions, I think of that Dostoyevsky's chapter.

    In one way I envy you to be able to believe whatever you want to believe about people, in spite of their actions, in spite of the proof in front of your eyes. You probably would have been fighting with Hitler and the Church to "clear the world of those who crucified Christ. . .the Jews," or those "homosexuals who are sinning against God," or those "Gypsy, who are no better than animals and dirty the White race and the name of God," . . .and you would have done so in perfect harmony with your conscience, because. . .no one who can be THAT evil, no one who speak of God, can be that crooked. . . .they must have felt "the arms of God around their shoulders!"

    Well. . .The Catholic Church believed as you do for a few years prior and even at the beginning of WWII. . .then they understood, and it was too late!

    I know. . .My uncle was one of those deep faith Christian, who believed in the Goodness of the first Reich. . . for awhile. Until he understood, tried to get out, and had his family threatened by those he had thought were so "right and Godly."

    He ended up being shot. He was a journalist, a writer, a profoundly Christian man. He was talented, and BELIEVED (for a while) the propaganda that he had become so good at writing that he was the speech writer for Hitler's #1 in Belgium: Degrelle.

    My uncle's name was Jose Streel. You can research it.
     
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