Meanwhile, in the war in our own backyard...

[PLC1]

Who is to blame? The pusher or the user. Both are criminals. But we are not talking about who is a criminal and who is legally at "fault". We are talking about how to stop gang violence.

And, as I said, if we truly want to solve this problem then we must focus on the addicts in the US. The problem doesn't originate, nor can it be solved in Mexico. Finding a solution to American's who are addicted to drugs can only be solved in the United States. If we solve that problem, then the gang violence in Mexico will wither on the vine and die.

Correct.

So, what do we do about addicts in the US? It looks we have a lot of them, particularly if you count legal drugs (alcohol), and prescription drugs that are abused, along with the "street" drugs. Now, it seems that there are "designer" drugs that are being developed faster than the government can outlaw them. I saw a segment about that on "60 Minutes" last night, where they were talking about a substance called "bath salts" that is really a hallucinogenic. It seems we have developed a drug culture. the "war on drugs" simply isn't working. What now?

 

[GenSeneca]

It seems we have developed a drug culture. the "war on drugs" simply isn't working. What now?

The answer should be obvious... We need the Crime Regulation Agency. Every single American should have to keep track of every single penny they make and spend and turn in quarterly reports for verification... Like a perpetual audit from the IRS.

Bought a bag of dope and can't account for the money? Busted.

Suddenly illegal activity of all types will become nearly impossible to conceal from Big Brother, finally making the "Land of the Free" safe from the public menace known as personal liberty.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The answer should be obvious... We need the Crime Regulation Agency. Every single American should have to keep track of every single penny they make and spend and turn in quarterly reports for verification... Like a perpetual audit from the IRS.

Bought a bag of dope and can't account for the money? Busted.

Suddenly illegal activity of all types will become nearly impossible to conceal from Big Brother, finally making the "Land of the Free" safe from the public menace known as personal liberty.

Violates the 5th

 

[GenSeneca]

Violates the 5th

Any regulatory policy good enough for American companies is good enough for you.

 

[Hobo1]

Violates the 5th

Pocket, it was a joke

 

[Hobo1]

So, what do we do about addicts in the US? The "war on drugs" simply isn't working. What now?

Our experience with alcohol, where a Constitutional amendment made it illegal and another amendment made it legal again, should give us a real good clue.

Making substance abuse illegal never works. Personally, I think we must make them legal, with some logical restrictions. Restrictions may include age limits, advertising limits, etc. Things that discourage, but not outlaw drug use.

One area that I think has failed badly is education. It seems the anti-drug programs taught in school fail to drive home the true dangers of addiction.

Some years ago, I took my teenage daughter to the hospital emergency room. Late on a Saturday night, the waiting room of the emergency room is filled with cases caused by drug abuse. Terribly battered wives with their drunk husband literally crying, "I'm so sorry"... is a common scene. Victims of automobile accidents caused by drunk drivers, as well as victims of drug overdoses are all pretty common.

One of the important things to see is how totally out of control these people who are totally stoned really are. People with blood everywhere, broken arms or legs, smashed heads, etc... and all of them saying, "Nothin' wrong wif me". That is TRUE drug education!

Another big problem is that conventional drug treatment programs lack the techniques to be highly successful. Bio-medical companies needs to focus on more effective tools to treat addicts. Medicine to stop cravings and perhaps negate the effects of addicting drugs would seem helpful. A slow release drug implant... like Norplant (formerly used for birth control), would be a possible one alternative. Either counteracting the mental effects of addicting drugs or producing some painful counter-reaction to the presence of drugs in the blood-stream are two possibilities.

In general, the problem of drug addiction needs to be given more visibility and a more dedicated tools made available to solve the problem. Obviously, good police work and serving jail time is not working.

 

[Centrehalf]

Another big problem is that conventional drug treatment programs lack the techniques to be highly successful. Bio-medical companies needs to focus on more effective tools to treat addicts. Medicine to stop cravings and perhaps negate the effects of addicting drugs would seem helpful. A slow release drug implant... like Norplant (formerly used for birth control), would be a possible one alternative. Either counteracting the mental effects of addicting drugs or producing some painful counter-reaction to the presence of drugs in the blood-stream are two possibilities.

If the bio-medicals could come up with something that can treat addicts, that would be great, and I'm all for them trying to do that. Addiction is living hell. But, even if they did come up with a magic pill tomorrow, it wouldn't change a thing on the US/Mexico border.

The addiction problems you're talking about are found in people who use alcohol, meth, coke, heroin, ...drugs like that. The Mexican cartels are smuggling marijuana, not any of the others, at least not in large quantities. Marijuana doesn't have the same effect on people that the hard core narcotics and alcohol has on people. Treatment won't make a dent in the demand for marijuana because marijuana generally doesn't produce addicts.

Even if we did manage to eliminate demand for marijuana in the US, it wouldn't change a thing in the US/Mexico border region. The criminal enterprises operating there didn't just spring up recently, they've been there for a very long time, the region is now and always has been lawless. Prostitution, gambling, white slavery, kidnapping, organ harvesting, local drug demand, gun running, all of these happen in that region. There will always be a war between competing criminal interests in Mexico and in the border region no matter what happens with demand for illegal drugs in the US.

 

[Hobo1]

Even if we did manage to eliminate demand for marijuana in the US, it wouldn't change a thing in the US/Mexico border region. The criminal enterprises operating there didn't just spring up recently, they've been there for a very long time, the region is now and always has been lawless. Prostitution, gambling, white slavery, kidnapping, organ harvesting, local drug demand, gun running, all of these happen in that region. There will always be a war between competing criminal interests in Mexico and in the border region no matter what happens with demand for illegal drugs in the US.

I was not aware that the drug trade was primarily marijuana from Mexico. If this is the case, then I have no trouble legalizing pot. And I say that as someone who doesn't use drugs off any kind... so it is not a statement of convenience.

From what I have seen and read, marijuana is pretty much in the same class as tobacco and alcohol. Even though mind altering drugs are something to be avoided for a long, happy and healthy life.

I lived most of my adult life in San Diego - and have traveled many times into Mexico. When I was young, it was a cheap place to get drunk and let off some steam. But you are right, that place has always been a a den of thieves. They have had corrupt governments, and greedy, dishonest politicians forever. A lot of it has to do with its history. It was a huge area to be a Spanish colony and nobody from Spain wanted to live there. As a result, a whole new culture evolved steeped in a tradition similar to the Western US during the 19th century. Pancho Villa is perhaps one of the most infamous Mexican terrorists who raided cities, trains and other targets in the Southwest. Interestingly, the Germans provided Pancho Villa with arms to fight Gen. Pershing prior to the outbreak of WWI. (My grandfather fought with Gen. Pershing using horse drawn cannon).

If this story of Mexico has a familiar ring to it, the only missing component is this Mexicans were not Muslims!

Mexico has a long history of violence, yet somehow the US manages to co-exist side-by-side with this lawless country. It is just another undeveloped, third-word country with which the United States must deal with at a time of rapid globalization. Mexico is a good illustration of just how far some countries must go before they can even hope to enter the mainstream of world civilization in the 21st century.

 

[Stalin]

Mexico has a long history of violence

Unlike the United States !!

Weren't Texas and California Mexican provinces ?

How come they are now in the US ?

Comrade Stalin

 

[Gipper]

Unlike the United States !!

Weren't Texas and California Mexican provinces ?

How come they are now in the US ?

Comrade Stalin

Have you ever heard of the Mexican-American War? Mexico lost. We could have taken their entire country (like your idol would have done and then killed millions), but unlike the USSR, we agreed to a peace treaty, removed our troops from Mexico City, and paid Mexico $15 Million for the California and New Mexico territories. Yes it was a bit heavy handed for a great nation like America. But compared to your beloved USSR, it was a cake walk for the Mexicans.

You of all people should know about conquering other nations. Your idol was very good at it...only he made sure what the stinking Soviets conquered, they kept and imposed brutal dictatorial governments.

I bet you think we stole Alaska from Russia too...

 

[PLC1]

Still, if we were to legalize pot and start treating drug addiction as the medical problem it is, rather than as a legal problem, that should at least cut back the profitability of drug dealing and take some of the wind out of the sails of the violent cartels in Mexico, as well as the violent gangs in the US.

 

[Centrehalf]

Still, if we were to legalize pot and start treating drug addiction as the medical problem it is, rather than as a legal problem, that should at least cut back the profitability of drug dealing and take some of the wind out of the sails of the violent cartels in Mexico, as well as the violent gangs in the US.

Agreed. The Zetas would no longer have a reason to cross the border and the only thing left that would require operating in America would be human trafficking, which doesn't seem to be anywhere near as violent as the drug trade. Northern Mexico would still be a violent, bloody mess but it probably wouldn't spill over into our country.

 

[Hobo1]

Still, if we were to legalize pot and start treating drug addiction as the medical problem it is, rather than as a legal problem, that should at least cut back the profitability of drug dealing and take some of the wind out of the sails of the violent cartels in Mexico, as well as the violent gangs in the US.

Agree. This solution is logical and not terribly controversial. This kind of solution has been talked about for a long time - but progress never seems to move in this direction. The "war on drugs" always seems to focus on a police and judicial solution. Why are law makers not moving in this alternate direction?

 

[PLC1]

Agree. This solution is logical and not terribly controversial. This kind of solution has been talked about for a long time - but progress never seems to move in this direction. The "war on drugs" always seems to focus on a police and judicial solution. Why are law makers not moving in this alternate direction?

Probably because they don't want to be seen as "soft on crime" or to be painted as pro drugs.